Do you belive Jesus exisited?

[CurtSibling]

Never.

If this dubious figure did exist, He was a man like me;
He was concieved from a man and a woman like me,
He bled, ate, breathed and crapped like me,

Anything else is just fairy tales.

I have always sneered at the merry dance conducted about a
man born two thousand years ago and the fantasy books written
by ignorant primative men about his antics.
Why do humans still credit this stuff?

God vs Satan, He-Man vs Skeletor, Bugs Bunny vs Elmer Fudd,
They are all the same, good guys and bad guys, all fake.

Good and evil exists in all of us, we don't need a religion to show us that.

PS
I 'do' evolution.
I don't 'do' ignorance.

 

[VoodooAce]

Originally posted by spycatcher34
Do yuo belive He was a real person like you and I?
-Do you belive He preformed miracles?
-Do you belive He was crucified?
-Do you belive He was the Son of God?
-Do you belive He was resurected on the third day?

yes
no
haven't the slighest....crucifiction was very common in that day, so if he was around then, then he may very well have been crucified.
no
no

 

[Sixchan]

Wouldn't really matter if was He was divinely conceived, now would it?

Actually, no.

I was comparing thinking about why Christianity is so big to why the sperm that did get though did, and not one of the others.

How Jesus was born was not a part of my statement.

 

[VoodooAce]

Originally posted by Leowind

He was crucified, and *something* happened afterward. Many others during that time preached and claimed to be the Messiah, but only his followers went on to found a major world religion. One has to ask why him particularly...

Why him, in particular? Well, because it happened. If it HAD ended up being a different one of the Messiahs of the day, which all admit were a dime a dozen, then we'd be talking about him, probably, and not JC.

Maybe Jesus was just more charismatic than the other Messiahs. Maybe he attracted one or two influential followers that were more successful in recruiting.

But the biggest reason that Christianity developed so is Constantine. Without him adopting the religion on the battlefield in what he played as a spontaneous thing, but was actually probably planned as a method to inspire his troops, the history of the world might be quite different. But surely the history of Christianity would have been signifigantly different, if it even survived.

Prior to this, Christianity wasn't much more than a cult within the Roman empire.

 

[CurtSibling]

Voodooace speaks true.

Mitharism at one time was the most widespread cult within the Roman Empire.

The adoption of christianity was a close-run thing, as VoodooAce pointed out also.

Imagine if Constantine not taken on christian ideals?
A western world would still be pagan!
Now there's something to think about...

Wouldn't be too bad, methinks....

 

[Sgt Zimm]

Sure Jesus existed. Son of God, miracles and other hocus pocus.... nope.

He was simply one of the many Jewish "Messiahs" that arose in that period.

He was just a man, nothing more, nothing less. Considering what has happened to the Catholic & Protestant Divisions of the Christian Faith, I think he would be spinning in his... wait.... on his... cross?? (Hey, we could attach magnets to him, add some wire, and we could generate electricity!!! Wow, he really is the Messiah!)

Immaculate Conception: Absolute garbage. This is just a lie propogated by the more fanatical of his followers. Jesus is not the only historical figure who has immaculate conception attributed to his origin. Alexander the Great comes to mind.

Bottom Line: His followers polluted his story with extravagant lies to make him more than he was. As a result his actual deeds are difficult to seperate from his fabricated pseudo biography. He was probably just a simple man who, like many others, was dissatisfied with the temple system the way it was. He wanted change. Unfortunately, he obviously failed.

 

[Magnus]

I believe a man named Jesus walked the earth c.2,000 years ago

I believe he was a human being and not divine.

I believe he may be the most influential person who ever lived.

After all, when I stub my toe, I don't curse out "Caesar!" or "Genghis!"

 

[CurtSibling]

Hey, that would be cool!
I think I'll try it.

I do exclaim "By Jupiter!" a lot!
Although that may be because I read "Asterix the Gaul" as a kid!

 

[Leowind]

Originally posted by Sgt Zimm
He was probably just a simple man who, like many others, was dissatisfied with the temple system the way it was. He wanted change. Unfortunately, he obviously failed.

Even if I were to grant that he was just another man and not divine in the least, I cannot see how you could possibly say he failed He may not have seen it in his lifetime, but his message changed the world forever, at least Western Civilization. As VoodooAce pointed out, what if Constantine had not adopted Christianity? For good or ill, he did, and Christianity significantly affected the development of Western Civilization for centuries to come. Christians abandoned the "temple system" probably within the first generation of believers. One could argue that it was eventually replaced with the "church system" which can be just as bad, but human nature is human nature; we'll always create some sort of "system" to institutionalize our good intentions. Nevertheless, Jesus' message has NOT failed, except in our own failings to adequetely carry it out in our own lives.

 

[Jimcat]

I believe that someone named Yeshua, son of Joseph, of Nazareth existed around the early decades AD.

I believe that he had a lot of powerful and relevant things to say.

I also believe that many of the people who have claimed to follow his teachings (starting right with his apostles and down to today) have misinterpreted, twisted, or downright ignored the actual teachings, and invoked Jesus' name while doing just the sort of things that he condemned when he was alive.

 

[Sgt Zimm]

Originally posted by Leowind


Even if I were to grant that he was just another man and not divine in the least, I cannot see how you could possibly say he failed He may not have seen it in his lifetime, but his message changed the world forever, at least Western Civilization. As VoodooAce pointed out, what if Constantine had not adopted Christianity? For good or ill, he did, and Christianity significantly affected the development of Western Civilization for centuries to come. Christians abandoned the "temple system" probably within the first generation of believers. One could argue that it was eventually replaced with the "church system" which can be just as bad, but human nature is human nature; we'll always create some sort of "system" to institutionalize our good intentions. Nevertheless, Jesus' message has NOT failed, except in our own failings to adequetely carry it out in our own lives.

Jesus' message has failed. To claim otherwise is to live in a child's world. Both the Protestant and Catholic divisions are as elitist and bigoted as the temple system of old. Jesus' message was one of brotherhood, charity and simply being a decent person (not a unique message obviously, countless others had similar philosophies before him.) Basically he was advocating people moving beyond their baser instincts. War, corruption, poverty and other human caused ills are as rampant now as they were in the past. Considering we haven't changed in our entire history, I submit to you that his message has failed, and miserably at that seeing as how Christian nations have been responsible for some of the greatest atrocities in the past 2000 years.

Using "human nature" as an excuse to offset this failure is idiocy. If Jesus' message had indeed succeeded, what we refer to "human nature" would be starkly different from what currently comprises our philosophies. Christianity has influenced the development of the West, but it did so by completely disregarding and perverting the original philosophy.

 

[amadeus]

Originally posted by Sgt Zimm
Christian nations have been responsible for some of the greatest atrocities in the past 2000 years.

Care to tell me which atrocities were motivated by Christianity?

 

[VoodooAce]

Originally posted by rmsharpe


Care to tell me which atrocities were motivated by Christianity?

Oh, I don't know......

Maybe the CRUSADES?!?!?

Ring a bell?

 

[VoodooAce]

Oh, oh.....

Then there was that nasty little Spanish Inquisition....

Atrocious works there as well....

 

[Sgt Zimm]

Thanks VoodooAce, a couple of minor examples.

By far the biggest atrocity: Christian rock, somebody should pay dearly for this crap.

On another note: Lets assume the basic mythology is correct - Christ died for the sins of man.

Now considering we've accumulated quite a far number of sins since as a whole, I think we need to wipe the slate clean again. Unfortunately the world population has soared since. Also, what about the effect of inflation over 2000 odd years? I don't think 1 messiah will do the job anymore. Hell, Washington alone would probably need at least 10.

What if the messiahs came from say, Buddhism, or Shinto. What's the current exchange rate?

 

[Becka]

Originally posted by VoodooAce
Oh, oh.....

Then there was that nasty little Spanish Inquisition....

Atrocious works there as well....

Originally posted by VoodooAce


Oh, I don't know......

Maybe the CRUSADES?!?!?

Ring a bell?

Doesn't really invalidate Christianity anymore than John Brown invalidated the abolitionist movement, though.

Originally posted by CurtSibling

I don't 'do' ignorance.

Neither do I! We have something in common!

 

[Spartak]

Do yuo belive He was a real person like you and I? Yes
-Do you belive He preformed miracles? No
-Do you belive He was crucified? Yes
-Do you belive He was the Son of God? No
-Do you belive He was resurected on the third day No

 

[FearlessLeader2]

The very fact that many groups calling themselves Christian are not only at odds with each other, but with the very message they supposedly preach, should tell you that they are not Christian at all.

Example the First:
"My kindgom is no part of this earth." Christians don't do earthly governments. Military service, political office, etc, are anethema to Christianity.

Example the Second:
"...by their fruits you may judge them. For a tree that is producing rotten fruit, it will be cut down and cast on the fire, but a tree producing fine fruit will be [shored up]..." Look at the followers of the religion. Do they pay lip service to God's Word, or do they toe the line? Do they do as they please, or as they would have others do unto them?

Now don't go taking my word for it, go examine the history of the various groups that claim to be Christian. Is it a bloody one, full of political dealings? Meet a few of them, and observe their lifestyle. Are they modest and lawful, or decadent and immoral? Don't just base your findings on one member either. Talk to as many as you can, and concentrate your efforts on their leadership. Those are the ones setting the examples for the rest of the flock. Do the sheperds have a reputation for honesty and integrity, or for fondling small boys?

Just some starting points. Do try to avoid the fallacy of accepting a group's word that it is a Christian organization. Take a look behind the curtain and see for yourself.

 

[cameramano]

Fearlessleader2

As for earthly governments, Jesus was saying that His kingdom was beyond this world and that those who follow him should live for that world and not this one. He was not saying that governmental service, or government for that matter, is bad... just that God's will should be supreme. In fact, governmental service is a great way to serve others, in a humble manner that pleases God and sets a rightous example.

As for judging Chritians by their life... Good point. There are many who claim to follow Christ but the evidence is not present in their life. I believe (and may be mistaken) that C.S. Lewis once said:

The greatest single cause of athiesm is Christians who acknowlege Jesus with their lips but not with their lives.

A true Christian is not the loudest but humble and loving. Faith, hope and love, but the greatest of these is love. Love is the trademark of a Christian.

 

[Ptolemy]

Do you belive He was a real person like you and I? Yes
-Do you belive He preformed miracles? No
-Do you belive He was crucified? Yes
-Do you belive He was the Son of God? No
-Do you belive He was resurected on the third day? No

I don't believe in any kind of life after death...