Do You Enjoy Civilization V

[charon2112]

We both know you're smarter than this. Unless, of course, you're that guy and now is trying to defend yourself.

Are you kidding, an account created in Oct 2010 with 11 posts? Why is that so far out of the bounds of reality?

I could say this poll is biased, because it implies a positive atitude about the game - "do you enjoy the game ?", instead of "what do you think about the game". Or biased towards the fact you may enjoy it but still think it's not as good as it should be, so you would get more positive answers than negative ones. But that's not the point. Biased or not, if that's a private poll we can't prevent from people trying to manipulate it.

^this, is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on CFC. This has to be a joke. How is the straight question "do you enjoy the game?" biased?

That's the pot calling the kettle black. I'm sorry that more people don't hate the game. Keep trying though.

 

[Jharii]

Anyways, I was talking to him, not you. Sorry if it sounds rude.

Why start apologizing for it now? And this is a PUBLIC forum. If you want a private conversation with him, take it to private messages.

It's a different question about the same subject: satisfaction.

Most other threads were various incarnations of this civ vs. that civ. This asks the question about Civ5 and only Civ5. THAT is the subject. No one made you vote. No one made you post here. If you are that inconvenienced by it, feel free to go read another thread.

Now, please, stop that drama.

So says the person making claims that people are committing fraud to warp the poll of a game.

I didn't say anything about you. I just said it's exploitable, not necessarily by you.

Yes. You absolutely did. You said it about potentially every single person that voted "Yes." I am one of those that voted "Yes."

And if you sincerely think that people have nothing better to do than to create forum accounts and wait for validation so simply skew a simple poll about a GAME, then I really do question your judgement on just about any topic.

 

[afa2000]

Are you kidding, an account created in Oct 2010 with 11 posts? Why is that so far out of the bounds of reality?

11 posts in a obviously satiric thread, trying to belittle who complains about the game. I dont need to explain more. You're smart enough to understand that.

this, is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on CFC. This has to be a joke. How is the straight question "do you enjoy the game?" biased?

That's the pot calling the kettle black. I'm sorry that more people don't hate the game. Keep trying though.

As ridiculous as someone saying every thread that shows the majority complaining is biased, as you always did. That's why, unlike you, I said: bias dont matter to me, people have free will. But exploits matter.

 

[afa2000]

Why start apologizing for it now? And this is a PUBLIC forum. If you want a private conversation with him, take it to private messages.

Well, your observation was a spam, that had nothing to do with the subject of the thread.

Most other threads were various incarnations of this civ vs. that civ. This asks the question about Civ5 and only Civ5.

That's not true.

No one made you vote. No one made you post here. If you are that inconvenienced by it, feel free to go read another thread.

I'm glad you're not the forum owner, so I vote for what I want, post where I want, as long as I'm following the forum rules. I'll tell you a secret, it's not North Korea.

So says the person making claims that people are committing fraud to warp the poll of a game.

I didn't accuse anyone, it was a supposition. But I'm pretty sure you know that.

Yes. You absolutely did. You said it about potentially every single person that voted "Yes." I am one of those that voted "Yes."

And if you sincerely think that people have nothing better to do than to create forum accounts and wait for validation so simply skew a simple poll about a GAME, then I really do question your judgement on just about any topic.

You're either very sensible or maybe I'm just that vilain you think I am, who knows ? All I can say in my defense is that I didn't even know you were the one who created the poll, I dont recall mentioning you. Believe me or not, I dont care ... you're free to not believe me.

Oh, the dictatorship of the political correctness ...

 

[charon2112]

11 posts in a obviously satiric thread, trying to belittle who complains about the game. I dont need to explain more. You're smart enough to understand that.

Guy, the person with 11 posts (all in that thread) was not the person who was there to belittle the complaints, it was the person who created the hate thread.

As ridiculous as someone saying every thread that shows the majority complaining is biased, as you always did. That's why, unlike you, I said: bias dont matter to me, people have free will. But exploits matter.

It's funny that every post with a ridiculously biased title attracts the negative votes, but every un-biased poll created shows a much more positive response, in fact in this case showing a majority of happy civ V players, if you look at the various polls, you'd see that this is a fact. What a coincidence.

I'm not saying that every poll that shows a negative response is biased. I'm saying that every poll that starts out negatively biased, attracts a strong negative response.

 

[Jharii]

Well, your observation was a spam, that had nothing to do with the subject of the thread.

You probably don't know what spam is. But am I to take this to mean that every response that you posted in this thread was about the subject of this thread? Do you really need me to quote you?

That's not true.

It is true. See, I can do that too.

I'm glad you're not the forum owner, so I vote for what I want, post where I want, as long as I'm following the forum rules. I'll tell you a secret, it's not North Korea.

I said you are "free" to go read other forums. I don't recall saying that you had to leave.

I didn't accuse anyone, it was a supposition. But I'm pretty sure you know that.

Oh, spare me the semantics. Would you like me to quote that, too? You accuse me of spamming. Maybe you should check the definition of trolling.

You're either very sensible or maybe I'm just that vilain you think I am, who knows ? All I can say in my defense is that I didn't even know you were the one who created the poll, I dont recall mentioning you. Believe me or not, I dont care ... you're free to not believe me.

You're not a villain. You're just apparently never wrong.

Oh, the dictatorship of the politically correct ...

Do you think that you are so clever that you presume to know me? Or did you just learn some new buzzwords so you think you can apply them without accountability?

 

[afa2000]

Guy, the person with 11 posts (all in that thread) was not the person who was there to belittle the complaints, it was the person who created the hate thread.

Hate thread ? OMG, Charon ... no comments.

It's funny that every post with a ridiculously biased title attracts the negative votes, but every un-biased poll created shows a much more positive response, in fact in this case showing a majority of happy civ V players, if you look at the various polls, you'd see that this is a fact. What a coincidence.

Of course, because you think it's un-biased only when it shows a majority that's enjoying the game. Pure deconstructionism and relativism.

I'm not saying that every poll that shows a negative response is biased. I'm saying that every poll that starts out negatively biased, attracts a strong negative response.

People aren't robots, easily manipulated. Especially CFC members. That's why we have seen so many complaints, despite so many reviews saying this game is so "great".

 

[bite]

Moderator Action: The fighting in this thread will stop now by everyone involved or nfractions will be handed out

 

[charon2112]

**sorry, bite, I was typing this as you posted your warning**

Hate thread ? OMG, Charon ... no comments.

How are you not getting this? You gave us an example for your theory that "fanboys" are creating new accounts just to belittle complainers. In your example, the initial hate thread that ended up getting ridiculed was itself created by a poster with a brand new account, obviously created just to post his "Death of Civ" hate thread.

Of course, because you think it's un-biased only when it shows a majority that's enjoying the game. Pure deconstructionism and relativism.

It is not my opinion when I point out a poll that's biased. It's a fact. Here's a quiz, two of these real poll titles are unbiased, and one is completely negatively biased. Let's see if you can guess which one:

"Do You Enjoy Civilization V?"
"Civ 5: Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?"
"Who else agrees that Civ 5 has been dumbed down?"

I'll give you a hint. It's the last one.

 

[Venereus]

It is not my opinion when I point out a poll that's biased. It's a fact. Here's a quiz, two of these real poll titles are unbiased, and one is completely negatively biased. Let's see if you can guess which one:

"Do You Enjoy Civilization V?"
"Civ 5: Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?"
"Who else agrees that Civ 5 has been dumbed down?"

I'll give you a hint. It's the last one.

Actually, the second one is good but not perfect, since "thumbs up" comes before "thumbs down". It's nitpicking, I know, but it should be considered.

 

[charon2112]

Actually, the second one is good but not perfect, since "thumbs up" comes before "thumbs down". It's nitpicking, I know, but it should be considered.

oookay. You fellas' posts have been entertaining, if not much else.

 

[afa2000]

You probably don't know what spam is. But am I to take this to mean that every response that you posted in this thread was about the subject of this thread? Do you really need me to quote you?

Now I'm defending myself, because the world considers me a villain (although I didn't DoW on anyone ). Were you trying to defend yourself, or trying to correct me, when talking to another member ? The latter is a spam.

You accuse me of spamming.

Yes, you did, as you can see.

You're not a villain. You're just apparently never wrong.

Well, when I said it was a supposition, I was considering I could be wrong. But you're trying to prove I'm wrong by any means. Not only wrong, but someone really bad ... the evil personified.

Do you think that you are so clever that you presume to know me?

Did I say that too ? Refresh my memory, please ...

But tomorrow. Now I need some sleep. Or maybe just lay down and think about everything I have done to you, so I may try the redemption tomorrow.

EDIT: I just saw the warning, it stops now.

 

[Jharii]

Actually, the second one is good but not perfect, since "thumbs up" comes before "thumbs down". It's nitpicking, I know, but it should be considered.

Yes, because we know how to play complex turn-based strategy games, yet we don't know how to answer simple questions and are fooled by the order of which the answers are presented.

And yet so many of these same detractors say that Civ5 has been "dumbed down."

Based on this logic, I can't for the life of me imagine why.

Seriously, I give up. I think that I will just stick to talking to people that actually want to have intelligent and civil conversations about the Civilization series.

 

[C~G]

You think that that poll, is the same as the one in this thread?

Well, if you look it closely...
in both polls about 40% don't enjoy Civ V and think it's the worst Civ ever.
It's not that far-fetched that they might be closer as polls than you at first think.

Do you believe in any business leaving ~40% unsatisfied customers is really a good thing?
Unless the customer base is huge...ajority doesn't help much if almost half of the customers hate the product anyways.

 

[Jharii]

Well, if you look it closely...
in both polls about 40% don't enjoy Civ V and think it's the worst Civ ever.
It's not that far-fetched that they might be closer as polls than you at first think.

First off, just because the results are similar does not mean the questions are the same. As a matter of fact, this is a very common practice. Collect multiple forms of data, using similar questions, to reinforce data and to maintain integrity.

No one claims that the polls do not have any similarities. This was not what the antagonists were accusing, stating the poll existed elsewhere, some even providing links to questions that were not remotely similiar. This poll is not the same, however. I think you are intelligent enough to see that.

But if you choose not to see the difference in the questions, then you are just arguing for argument's sake.

Do you believe in any business leaving ~40% unsatisfied customers is really a good thing?
Unless the customer base is huge...ajority doesn't help much if almost half of the customers hate the product anyways.

Please stop with the argument that there are people here that are boasting that 60% Yes vote equates to resounding success. All it means is the majority. This has been explained several times in this thread.

Now, please. This is not a debate on what this poll is and is not. The poll is posted. People are using it. Use the data however you see fit. Enough with semantical arguments about it.

 

[JLoZeppeli]

Because its football season

Fifa 11 and PES are more popular and stramlined (maybe Fifa Manager too), than the Sport interactive games. And you are forgetting one thing... Football is not so popular in USA, one of the biggest market in the gaming industry... (and i don't speak of Asia, where it is at an early stage, except for Korea and Japan)..

So i find that very funny...

I believe the opposite is true here. Most people who enjoy the game are playing and spending less time on the forum. Conversely, people who hate the game are tripping over themselves to get to the forum to complain about it. In short, the game's detractors haven't gone anywhere.

So i suppose you don't enjoy the game, because you spend most of your time on the forum...

 

[Jharii]

So i suppose you don't enjoy the game, because you spend most of your time on the forum...

Sometimes, particularly recently, these forums resemble a car crash. You just can't look away, no matter how much you want to.

The difference here is that sometimes you feel compelled to drive right into the accident, adding to the carnage.

(The "you" above is a generic "you," not a direct reference to you)

 

[C~G]

First off, just because the results are similar does not mean the questions are the same. As a matter of fact, this is a very common practice. Collect multiple forms of data, using similar questions, to reinforce data and to maintain integrity.

Isn't this exactly what I was talking about?

No one claims that the polls do not have any similarities. This was not what the antagonists were accusing, stating the poll existed elsewhere, some even providing links to questions that were not remotely similiar. This poll is not the same, however. I think you are intelligent enough to see that.

But if you choose not to see the difference in the questions, then you are just arguing for argument's sake.

Yes, the question is different but the results are very similar and the real question is can we draw enough lines and find similarities between them so we can conclude that in fact they reinforce the conclusions (60-40)? That's what I was saying, nothing else.

In other words, maybe those who don't enjoy Civ V also vote that they think it's the worst Civ yet?

Please stop with the argument that there are people here that are boasting that 60% Yes vote equates to resounding success. All it means is the majority. This has been explained several times in this thread.

Now, please. This is not a debate on what this poll is and is not. The poll is posted. People are using it. Use the data however you see fit. Enough with semantical arguments about it.

Of course it's debate what the poll is and what it is not.
Your making arguments out of debates.

That's how you can come up with how the data can be or cannot be used to make conclusions.

You're the one being semantical here while I just pointed out that the data from both polls together might give stronger picture than one poll alone how liked Civ V is.

Don't get carried away.

 

[lschnarch]

It is for a politician/political party.

Actually, that is not true.

60% agreement are good when polling not within the limits of a social group, iow when having a random sample of the whole population.
These 60% are within the limits of a social group, which makes the value being astonishingly low.

It is like asking the members of a political party if they acclaim the way their party is working. 60% then typically means that the frontmen should think about it, because on the backside 40% of their assumed followers actually do NOT follow them on their course.

It is not my opinion when I point out a poll that's biased. It's a fact. Here's a quiz, two of these real poll titles are unbiased, and one is completely negatively biased. Let's see if you can guess which one:

"Do You Enjoy Civilization V?"
"Civ 5: Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down?"
"Who else agrees that Civ 5 has been dumbed down?"

I'll give you a hint. It's the last one.

Actually, if at all, then the poll in the middle wouldn't be biased. The first as well as the last one are based on "leading questions", admittedly the third one even more.
And even the poll in the middle has its weaknesses, since the question doesn't leave room for the fence-sitters or undecided.

 

[JLoZeppeli]

Sometimes, particularly recently, these forums resemble a car crash. You just can't look away, no matter how much you want to.

The difference here is that sometimes you feel compelled to drive right into the accident, adding to the carnage.

(The "you" above is a generic "you," not a direct reference to you)

Yes, i try to avoid the mess, but it's simply like an hypnotic gaze

And some statements are so funny, from each side of the barricade, that you must endure to not joke about them...

I think of some users as the prototype of diplo testers for the AI chosen by Shafer...

Me Grubuzht Throatcutter, you offended me, me make war to you human, WAAAAAAAAAAAGHHHHHH!!!!!! (cit.)