Do you expect to die?

[timtofly]

I used to expect to die, now I expect to live.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Maybe we will be among the last people dying before inmortality is achieved. We will be the most wretch in heaven (or hell for some ).

 

[El_Machinae]

'Expect'? Dunno. That's a good word. I think we'll live in a world where it will always be possible (likely, even), but not guaranteed.

 

[Gori the Grey]

My every third thought is of the grave.

 

[Mouthwash]

Neurophysiology.

You're being born with all your neurons in place and you can't have more. Ever since there are 2 parallel processes: a) neurons build connections like crazy and b) neurons die out one by one and faster with time. When they build connections, you get level-ups in thinking/learning and creativity. But when a neuron dies, all its connections die with it and you loose [part of] your wits.

When you're young, you have enough neurons to build connections faster than loose them. When you're getting older, the processes of building up and dying out are balanced. Next there is an inevitable decline causing you to forget what you once knew and making your thinking sort of rigid and new ideas harder to understand (if at all). Next you're either dead for whatever reason or still alive but hardly smarter than a potato.

If you're able to live up to 200, you're simply likely to be unconscious for the last 30 years or so, and also on an artificial respiratory for the last 10 years.

That wouldn't fit my definition of living. Sure, you would be a functioning organism, but your identity and consciousness would be erased.

Someone beat me to the Bond joke.

I expect to die, yes. I do not believe that technology will advance far enough within my lifetime to enable functional immortality. Ray Kurzweil does not expect to die, but I think he's being a little too optimistic. I believe the technology is certainly possible, but it will not be achieved within the next hundred years or so. So maybe not immortality for us, but for our grandchildren or great-grandchildren. That raises the question of whether it's even a good idea.

It just occurred to me that besides cryonics or regenerative medicine, another kind of "immortality" could stem from mind uploading. But I don't know if that fits your definition, and mental uploading technology probably won't be developed within the next hundred years either.

Why the hell wouldn't it? Cryonics could preserve someone up to the point in which mind uploading becomes possible.

 

[El_Machinae]

I have no doubt that cryonics is a real tool in the toolkit. Its weakness is not the laws of physics, but the fallibility of human organisations.

 

[Mouthwash]

I have no doubt that cryonics is a real tool in the toolkit. Its weakness is not the laws of physics, but the fallibility of human organisations.

Why? Do you expect civilization to crumble sometime in the next few hundred years?

 

[bhsup]

Yes, I expect to and certainly hope that is the case. Look not to the west, young Numenorean, but rather embrace the gift of Eru.

 

[Daw]

cryonics

Being frozen... that's no life. Could be good for one way time travel though. Close your eyes and open them in the next millennium with no chance to return. Similarly to how you travel from evening to morning every night... okay, every night when you don't have a party. But do you actually live between you fall asleep and you wake up? Hours elapse and you don't (or hardly) recall anything.

regenerative medicine

Hayflick limit is something you can't deal with so far.

That's even with tissues which can regenerate relatively easily, like skin for instance.

mind uploading

It would come handy to first find out what precisely mind is. Currently the best theory I'm aware of is that it is the system of individual's neural connections, which is dynamic with [tens of] thousands of them being created and destroyed every moment. If true, there are a few problems with uploading:

Problem: There's nothing to copy because it's changing constantly in a kaleidoscopic fashion - simply not stable enough to map.
Solution: Subject can be frozen to stop any brain activity to map the pattern of the neural connections. (Needless to say that there is currently no technology to map the neural net even if frozen, let alone keep the brain intact in the process).

Problem: OK, we have the neural map. Where do we upload it to? Computer won't do because it is a stable system of connections. To emulate brain activity in a computer we'll need to assign some army of men with solders to tinker the contacts all the time, otherwise you will keep thinking one thought with no development, and will never have any new idea, which is boring.
Solution: -

Problem: OK, we made your neural map and dumped it somewhere vivid enough to count for a living being. But here's what: it's the mental copy, not the original. The original is still frozen in the cryocamera where we were mapping the neural system and hopefully did not suffer any alterations of its condition. The copy will have a long and happy life, but the original's condition is what it was (if everything went fine) and is going to die as soon as it's naturally scheduled to.
Solution: -

 

[azzaman333]

Ideally, I'd like to be able to live forever, but I don't expect to maintain a high enough quality of life to never want to die.

 

[Tigranes]

Seriously. Do you think it is possible, within your own timeframe, to live indefinitely? Cryonics, maybe, or regenerative medicine?

If you're going to say yes because you believe in an afterlife, don't. It isn't death in any meaningful fashion to outlive your body.

We have beaten the topic of death to death in RD Death Thread. And you are welcome to join the second one while we all still alive.

 

[Daw]

That wouldn't fit my definition of living. Sure, you would be a functioning organism, but your identity and consciousness would be erased.

Then we need to learn how to prevent neurons from dying (or even better to recreate them to treat consequences of cerebral hemorrhage to start with). Will come handy even today to improve elders quality of life for instance.

I have no doubt that cryonics is a real tool in the toolkit. Its weakness is not the laws of physics, but the fallibility of human organisations.

Why? Do you expect civilization to crumble sometime in the next few hundred years?

I suspect El_Machinae meant that freezing someone is not a problem, but freezing and not killing by this is. The major problem is that we're too watery, water turns into ice when frozen, and ice is bad for its container integrity.

 

[CavLancer]

For the sake of my wife and kids I want to stick around. However if I had no such attachments I would be ready any time my life on this Earth came to an end. I really want to be off on the next adventure...may it be a good one.

 

[El_Machinae]

Why? Do you expect civilization to crumble sometime in the next few hundred years?

No, I don't. I've got some ecological concerns, but I think they can be overcome if enough people show wisdom.

Cryonics is, frankly, kind of kooky. The business model seems fine, reasonable even. Maybe a weakness regarding the incentive to wake people. But, because it's so kooky, the idea (and the companies) will attract kooks and those groups are likely to mishandle the scenario. People with longterm thinking can make short-term errors that cannot be recovered from

It's not a civilizational issue, but more of an issue with the local orgs. It's a shame, since I think cryonics could save lots of people.

 

[CavLancer]

I think those frozen people are dead.

 

[LamaGT]

Being frozen... that's no life. Could be good for one way time travel though. Close your eyes and open them in the next millennium with no chance to return. Similarly to how you travel from evening to morning every night... okay, every night when you don't have a party. But do you actually live between you fall asleep and you wake up? Hours elapse and you don't (or hardly) recall anything.


Hayflick limit is something you can't deal with so far.

That's even with tissues which can regenerate relatively easily, like skin for instance.


It would come handy to first find out what precisely mind is. Currently the best theory I'm aware of is that it is the system of individual's neural connections, which is dynamic with [tens of] thousands of them being created and destroyed every moment. If true, there are a few problems with uploading:

Problem: There's nothing to copy because it's changing constantly in a kaleidoscopic fashion - simply not stable enough to map.
Solution: Subject can be frozen to stop any brain activity to map the pattern of the neural connections. (Needless to say that there is currently no technology to map the neural net even if frozen, let alone keep the brain intact in the process).

Problem: OK, we have the neural map. Where do we upload it to? Computer won't do because it is a stable system of connections. To emulate brain activity in a computer we'll need to assign some army of men with solders to tinker the contacts all the time, otherwise you will keep thinking one thought with no development, and will never have any new idea, which is boring.
Solution: -

Problem: OK, we made your neural map and dumped it somewhere vivid enough to count for a living being. But here's what: it's the mental copy, not the original. The original is still frozen in the cryocamera where we were mapping the neural system and hopefully did not suffer any alterations of its condition. The copy will have a long and happy life, but the original's condition is what it was (if everything went fine) and is going to die as soon as it's naturally scheduled to.
Solution: -

What about replacing your neurons with synthetic copies, cell by cell? It's not really mind uploading, but it's way better.

 

[El_Machinae]

I think those frozen people are dead.

I think they could be. But, a subset will be like the Princess Bride, only mostly dead. Much like embryos currently sitting in liquid nitrogen, not living, but not dead.

 

[warpus]

I am probably going to die. If we ever figure out immortality, it is going to be super expensive at first. I'm not anywhere near being the 1%, there's no way I am going to be able to afford it.

That's fine, though. I am getting everything done in this life that I ever wanted to. The one thing I might not be able to do is go out into orbit (at least) as a space tourist.. we'll see though, you never know.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Yes. Having seen a few people spend ten years or more just waiting to do it I plan on it sooner rather than later for myself.

 

[Loppan Torkel]

Link to video.