Do you fear death?

[Kyriakos]

I suppose then that the millions dieing each year in Africa will benefit enormously from a cure from death. Provided it comes full with a supply of food, or some genetic modification which allows them to survive longer without it.
If they die again, well, just ship them back to the great replenishing plants

(as i said, even if a "cure" from death- a contradiction in terms given that death is not an illness- was discovered, it would only "benefit" the tiniest of tiny minorities, probably little more than the thousant or so ultra powerful economically and politically around our little blue world).

 

[El_Machinae]

we have a moral onus to proactively fight death. Whether it's starvation, bullets, malaria, or age-induced, we should battle death. In the modern age, the greatest cause of debilitation and death is aging-induced degeneration, which is why I think we should work to cure aging.

Kyriakos, 3 of the 4 are certainly 'African'-type issues. Additionally, I was careful with my language. We battle death, we cure aging. As far as I can tell, even if you disagree with fighting aging-related degeneration, you still have a moral onus to battle other types of death. Malaria, diarrhea, starvation, bullets.

It's actually remarkably easy to help. What Mrs. Mac does is just ask people for money when she's collecting for a charity of her choice. She personally gives $10 (less than a movie) but somehow is able to regularly collect more than $500 to some charity she'd like to boost. And then, once you've decided to help, you help. When some better way of helping is discovered, switch.

 

[Phrossack]

I don't specifically fear death. In fact, I've implicitly proven to myself that I don't. I don't believe that death involves any type of suffering, even if dying might. I can easily imagine a life where I'd rather be dead, and I can easily imagine scenarios where I'll risk death.

That said, I think that death is a horrific tragedy. My grandparents, whom I loved very much, are gone forever. They didn't choose to die, they had their vitality robbed from them and their bodies degraded.

That robbery, coupled with the final (permanent) theft, drives me to believe that we have a moral onus to proactively fight death. Whether it's starvation, bullets, malaria, or age-induced, we should battle death. In the modern age, the greatest cause of debilitation and death is aging-induced degeneration, which is why I think we should work to cure aging.

At the personal level, I think that there are two (non-conflicting) options. Lifestyle slows age-related degeneration, and then hope for a 'cure'. OR, speed the rate at which the cure is discovered.

I'd be worried about a population of billions of people who will not die. It would either continuously expand or it would age. If it expanded because of plummeting death rates, we'd be faced with permanent environmental destruction, food shortages, water shortages, and massive competition for a decreasing amount of available jobs. If the elderly do not die, they'll need to put off retirement for years or decades, if not indefinitely, which would lead to conflict with young people who can find no openings for jobs in which workers delay or avoid retirement. This would lead to having a lot of restless, frustrated, unemployed youth, which is always a recipe for disaster. This is all assuming that enough totally new professions emerge to replace the loss of other professions to automation.

I'd much rather cure some of the problems related to aging than aging itself. It would be great if aging didn't bring with it impaired hearing, vision, mobility, memory, and so on. But a population that refuses to die is nothing but trouble.

 

[El_Machinae]

That's a problem of the reproduction rate, not the death rate. If Mac. Jr. is around in 2120, or El_Mac is, the net degradation is the same, no? There's certainly a conversation to be had there, but that conversation will need to occur regardless, and it's mostly about 'reproductive rates'.

And, yes, there is a youth employment problem, but I refuse to accept that the best solution to this issue is 'spend years sitting in your diapers while your body and mind slowly degrade'. There are always unintended consequences, no denying. I just won't accept the 'solution' we currently have as being ideal.

That said, if someone wants to directly help tackle age-associated memory loss instead of malaria, I'll never say they've made the wrong decision. It's the doing nothing that I think fails the onus.

 

[classical_hero]

Whether it's starvation, bullets, malaria, or age-induced, we should battle death. In the modern age, the greatest cause of debilitation and death is aging-induced degeneration, which is why I think we should work to cure aging.

We simply cannot cure ageing, since that would mean that somehow you an stop the human genome from mutating. That is simply impossible.

 

[Leonel]

Of course I fear death. Anyone who says they are completely unafraid of death is only fooling themselves. If anything, I'd want to live forever so I can watch the human race and what it does the next thousands of years. And then when that's over with, I'll wait around for the next sapient species and watch them from afar, becoming a part of their mythology before they capture me and dissect me for study.

But in the end I guess it would be a relief not to have to clean the apartment or pay bills. Just cremate my ashes and dump them all along the Oregon coast and Hong Kong.

 

[Perfection]

If we can transcend age induced death, we open the door for a person to become incomprehensibly more then they are today. That potential while brimming with possibilities seems fraught with peril as well. A single person or small group could amass unimaginable resources, choking out others, and people could be forced to endure hellish conditions for ridiculous durations.

Such a raising of stakes needs to be taken extremely seriously, and I'm not at all convinced that such a project wouldn't result in mostly a magnification of all man's folly, one that spreads pain and suffering across the cosmos.

 

[Darkflight]

The process of dying terrifies me, but I welcome death. It'll be so much easier to not exist anymore.

 

[Perfection]

We simply cannot cure ageing, since that would mean that somehow you an stop the human genome from mutating. That is simply impossible.

It may not be possible to prevent all mutations, but it doesn't mean that one can't fix mutations after they occur.

 

[Borachio]

But is Davy Jones really Cthulhu?

And some errors in the human genome are corrected naturally anyway.

 

[Synobun]

That's a problem of the reproduction rate, not the death rate. If Mac. Jr. is around in 2120, or El_Mac is, the net degradation is the same, no? There's certainly a conversation to be had there, but that conversation will need to occur regardless, and it's mostly about 'reproductive rates'.

And, yes, there is a youth employment problem, but I refuse to accept that the best solution to this issue is 'spend years sitting in your diapers while your body and mind slowly degrade'. There are always unintended consequences, no denying. I just won't accept the 'solution' we currently have as being ideal.

That said, if someone wants to directly help tackle age-associated memory loss instead of malaria, I'll never say they've made the wrong decision. It's the doing nothing that I think fails the onus.

Something else that people seem to forget, I think, is that since our lives are so short, most of us are focused on short term gain rather than long term. They think of the next generation, their personal happiness, and put in just enough effort to make themselves feel like they're useful to society but it doesn't really go beyond that, even with the innovative men and women of today like Elon Musk and the minds behind many of our globally used inventions that go unnamed.

With no concern for aging, I imagine that the psychology of our species would shift within a couple centuries into focusing more on the long term of the species, our society, and where we're going. Space exploration, colonization, and integrated global society would become a thing because it's either that or we draw a thick line down the centre of our species with those who are willing to move forward with no aging and those who see it as an abomination and seek to kill all those who support it.

If our psychology stays exactly the same, yes, not dying from age will end terribly, but I imagine it'd change pretty quickly since some huge changes to our infrastructure and our lifestyles would need to occur.

 

[Goodfella]

I'm too young to really care right now. I still have 60 years or so.

 

[Borachio]

Maybe you do. Maybe you don't.



And even if you do, it'll be over in the twinkle of an eye.

 

[El_Machinae]

If we can transcend age induced death, we open the door for a person to become incomprehensibly more then they are today. That potential while brimming with possibilities seems fraught with peril as well. A single person or small group could amass unimaginable resources, choking out others, and people could be forced to endure hellish conditions for ridiculous durations.

Such a raising of stakes needs to be taken extremely seriously, and I'm not at all convinced that such a project wouldn't result in mostly a magnification of all man's folly, one that spreads pain and suffering across the cosmos.

True, there's a risk. It'd be foolish to not go into it with eyes wide open. Luckily, I think that these problems could manifest more slowly than the debate could. A robust debate, well ahead of time, could reasonably head off many of the threats.

 

[Mouthwash]

Good god, this thread is horrendously depressing. Unsubscribing. These "deep thinking" existential thread never turn out fruitful.

 

[Borachio]

Didn't you start it?

Have you thought of starting an absurdist thread?

 

[Phrossack]

Good god, this thread is horrendously depressing. Unsubscribing. These "deep thinking" existential thread never turn out fruitful.

Agreed. Humor & Jokes is much more fruitful, I find, though sometimes I can't help but chime in. Of course, I'll probably be shot for saying this.

 

[Kan' Sharuminar]

Nah. I'll just regenerate. I might even get better eyesight as a result.

 

[bhsup]

But you still won't be ginger...

 

[Perfection]

True, there's a risk. It'd be foolish to not go into it with eyes wide open. Luckily, I think that these problems could manifest more slowly than the debate could. A robust debate, well ahead of time, could reasonably head off many of the threats.

I'm sure robust debate will occur, but I suspect it may only be among only those equipped to do well in the coming changes.