Do you fear death?

[El_Machinae]

Can you think of an analogous example?

 

[Joecoolyo]

Of course I fear death. Anyone who says they are completely unafraid of death is only fooling themselves. If anything, I'd want to live forever so I can watch the human race and what it does the next thousands of years. And then when that's over with, I'll wait around for the next sapient species and watch them from afar, becoming a part of their mythology before they capture me and dissect me for study.

But in the end I guess it would be a relief not to have to clean the apartment or pay bills. Just cremate my ashes and dump them all along the Oregon coast and Hong Kong.

This, basically.

 

[Perfection]

Can you think of an analogous example?

Founding of the USA where only affluent white males had real political power.

 

[duckstab]

Afraid in the sense that I'm going to continue to protect myself from harm and try to stay healthy for as long as possible, sure. And I'm not looking forward to the dying process itself, which usually involves some unpleasantness.

But am I afraid of what happens after my brain stops functioning enough to support consciousness? No, not at all, because I don't think any part of what I call "myself" is going to exist at that time to experience it.

 

[El_Machinae]

Founding of the USA where only affluent white males had real political power.

So, can we get ahead of the ball? The process of curing aging will be slow, and likely take place in step-wise increments. The consequences will therefore be slow to arise, too. Where does the discussion start?

 

[Kyriakos]

That's a problem of the reproduction rate, not the death rate. If Mac. Jr. is around in 2120, or El_Mac is, the net degradation is the same, no? There's certainly a conversation to be had there, but that conversation will need to occur regardless, and it's mostly about 'reproductive rates'.

And, yes, there is a youth employment problem, but I refuse to accept that the best solution to this issue is 'spend years sitting in your diapers while your body and mind slowly degrade'. There are always unintended consequences, no denying. I just won't accept the 'solution' we currently have as being ideal.

That said, if someone wants to directly help tackle age-associated memory loss instead of malaria, I'll never say they've made the wrong decision. It's the doing nothing that I think fails the onus.

I still do not agree at all, and the easiest way to note why is to mention that from your own posts it is not evident just why you arrived to the conclusion that trying to make men immortal (or something that lives for at least a number of decades past even 100 years old) is, as things stand now in the misery which forms as a vortex near most of humanity, some good thing to focus on.
Like i said, maybe it is more reasonable to first actually try to make things better with the current life-length. Since humanity obviously cares little, and does even less, for the far largest part of the 7 billion humans alive now, it is very obvious to me that it would have near zero chance to help many people by focusing on a goal which is on the one hand unrealistic at the moment from a scientific perspective, on the other (and far more importantly) would benefit only the tiniest fraction of those already leading far longer lives on average than most of everyone else.

The above, again, is why i don't agree with you on this, and neither do i think you have a valid basis for arguing in favor of your position.

 

[Synobun]

and neither do i think you have a valid basis for arguing in favor of your position.

Not particularly your right to decide that since your counter-argument is based on "people suck, so let's stop sucky people from living too long". You are assuming that society would remain 100% the same regardless of extended life span even though our short life span is a significant factor in the short-term obsession of humans rather than the long-term.

I don't necessarily think you're wrong since it's highly circumstantial and it's very possible that humans would just be worse if they could live longer, but there is no right answer and to say there is shows a blatant disregard for how life actually works.

 

[Kyriakos]

Hm, someone (in another thread) must be a regular prophet

 

[El_Machinae]

I still do not agree at all, and the easiest way to note why is to mention that from your own posts it is not evident just why you arrived to the conclusion that trying to make men immortal (or something that lives for at least a number of decades past even 100 years old) is, as things stand now in the misery which forms as a vortex near most of humanity, some good thing to focus on.
Like i said, maybe it is more reasonable to first actually try to make things better with the current life-length. Since humanity obviously cares little, and does even less, for the far largest part of the 7 billion humans alive now, it is very obvious to me that it would have near zero chance to help many people by focusing on a goal which is on the one hand unrealistic at the moment from a scientific perspective, on the other (and far more importantly) would benefit only the tiniest fraction of those already leading far longer lives on average than most of everyone else.

The above, again, is why i don't agree with you on this, and neither do i think you have a valid basis for arguing in favor of your position.

Did you read the post you wrote this reply to? I'm not sure what part of my post you are disagreeing with, since you're basically writing stuff that I've already agreed to as being reasonable.

 

[MobBoss]

The answer is both yes and no.

No because I have no desire to live forever. Immortality has zero appeal to me and I just don't understand people who do want to live forever. El_Mac, I am singling you out here to say that I mean no disrespect to you when I say that. You want it and that's great and fine, it's just not something for me.

Yes because while I do not want to live forever, I absolutely want to be alive right now. If my car happened to careen over a cliff into the water and I was trapped inside, I am not going to just rest and think, "Oh well, I didn't want to live forever." No, I would fight tooth and nail to get my butt free and live.

Ideally, dying peacefully after a good 70 or 80+ year run with Suki III at my feet with Star Trek playing on TV.

Having to confront the particular issue most recently, I can tell you I would like to say I don't fear death, but rather would fear the circumstances prior to it. I have no desire to be a feeble drooling witless mess, to the point where actual death would seem a release from such a condition.

Death isn't to be feared. What should be feared is not actually living.

 

[Berzerker]

i dont fear death, i just dont wanna be there when it happens

[/woody]

 

[Perfection]

So, can we get ahead of the ball? The process of curing aging will be slow, and likely take place in step-wise increments. The consequences will therefore be slow to arise, too. Where does the discussion start?

The process will be coinciding with lots of other changes too, (AI, Robotics, Mind-Machine Interfacing, nanotechnology, seamless integration of smart devices to daily life, big data, etc.), so slowness of change is not guaranteed.

The discussion, of course, has already started, but of course those who lead that discussion have a vested interested in self-serving because they're going to likely end up the winners.

 

[Rashiminos]

To the extent that I find value in continuing my existence here, yes. (Otherwise, I would make no special effort to stave off death or to not hasten its coming).

So, can we get ahead of the ball? The process of curing aging will be slow, and likely take place in step-wise increments. The consequences will therefore be slow to arise, too. Where does the discussion start?

Roll a die.

 

[Traitorfish]

No, don't do that. Last night I botched a listen check and got my face bitten off by gnomes, because my GM is a dick.

 

[Mise]

I don't fear death, no. I mean, I'm an affluent 28 year old and I work in an office. I'm not exactly confronted with my own mortality with sufficient regularity that I consciously fear it. When I think about dying, the possibility is so remote that I find it difficult to form any emotions whatsoever. The consequences of dying -- for example, of never seeing my friends and family again, never raising children, never retiring and living the life o'riley and so on -- certainly make me sad. But this isn't something I fear. They're things that I anticipate happening during my life, before I die. Death is so far off my radar that I simply don't fear it.

 

[El_Machinae]

Oh, to build off what Mise said (which is nearly my personal situation), it's the death of my loved ones that's on my radar. This'll be true for approximately another 30 years at least.

The process will be coinciding with lots of other changes too, (AI, Robotics, Mind-Machine Interfacing, nanotechnology, seamless integration of smart devices to daily life, big data, etc.), so slowness of change is not guaranteed.

The discussion, of course, has already started, but of course those who lead that discussion have a vested interested in self-serving because they're going to likely end up the winners.

Yeah, I'm hoping to be one of the ageless. You're right about the rapidity of change, but while those changes will contribute to the ageless condition, I don't know if they're part of it. What're the normally discussed consequences of agelessness? Political and economic power, population growth, stagnation?

 

[warpus]

I almost died a couple times, and that was scary. It made me consider my own mortality. But the actual "I'm dead" part is nothing to be scared about - because you just won't be there to experience it. The scary part is when you're lying there with your foot broken, bones sticking out, and a bunch of bears are eating your face.

 

[bhsup]

Yikes, Warpus, that almost sounds like a Hannibal Lector ending!

 

[Kyriakos]

I almost died a couple times, and that was scary. It made me consider my own mortality. But the actual "I'm dead" part is nothing to be scared about - because you just won't be there to experience it. The scary part is when you're lying there with your foot broken, bones sticking out, and a bunch of bears are eating your face.

I liked that you finished that up with "a bunch of bears" instead of a singular such threat. I guess in such a state it would be horrible to not be able at least to wish that the one bear would stop biting parts of your face off for long enough so as to actually eat them, and until it returns for more you would have died already

 

[warpus]

Sorry guys to be so explicit, but that's what I fear - the act of dying. It's probably going to suck. Death itself I won't know about, since I'll be dead, so it seems pointless to be scared of that specifically.