amadeus
Bishop of Bio-Dome
Well, you can just thank the liberal-run government for that.
Do you really feel that the US way is right?
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ApocalypseKurtz
Man, myth, legend
Originally posted by SunTzu
$6.58 an hour is excellent. i make $6.00 an hour and if i worked 8 hour days 5 days a week. i'd make over $200 a week. That can support a single person just fine.
Most wal-mart workers are high school kids, high school drop outs of adults with high school diploma's.
Better working then having to collect welfare checks. If you don't wanna work at walmart, join the Armed Forces. Thats what i'm doing if, for some reason i don't go to college, i'm going to the air force
Only if i don't go to college though,(no way in hell i'm not going to college)
Seriously you need at least $10.00 an hour to survive on your own, and that will be barely! In order to live a decent but fairly poor existence, you will need $15-17 an hour.
BlueMonday
Can I Kick It?
I know a man who lives on 100 dollars a week.
Six days a week (from Sunday untill Friday) all he does is eat, sleep, read, write, and take walks around Sugarhouse Park. On Saturdays he spends six hours at the Hospital taking medical transcriptions. He has no car, no TV, no computer, no wife, no kids, no coffee table in the shape of a Yin-Yang, none of those flaming worldly possesions we all consider paramount to our existence. Those six hours of work alone are enough to support everything he needs.
And strangely enough, he's is the happiest man I've ever met.
Six days a week (from Sunday untill Friday) all he does is eat, sleep, read, write, and take walks around Sugarhouse Park. On Saturdays he spends six hours at the Hospital taking medical transcriptions. He has no car, no TV, no computer, no wife, no kids, no coffee table in the shape of a Yin-Yang, none of those flaming worldly possesions we all consider paramount to our existence. Those six hours of work alone are enough to support everything he needs.
And strangely enough, he's is the happiest man I've ever met.
allan
Cabrón
Curious, Blue Monday--how much does he pay for rent?
I pay $450 a month for an EFFICIENCY apartment (that's one room basically, plus a bathroom), here in Minneapolis--and that was the cheapest rate I was able to find when I moved back here, and the neighborhood is kind of "iffy". But housing demand in the Twin Cities was incredibly high when I moved back here.... It took me almost a month before I could get an affordable place like this one--I was living at my cousin's in the meantime.
In rural areas I know rents are less, as they also tend to be in the South (even in cities), but in rural areas jobs for outsiders are harder to come by than in cities, and in southern cities the pay is usually less than in the north, so it evens out anyway....
It would be pretty hard for me to live on $200 a week, and impossible on $100 a week (wouldn't even pay my low rent), which is why I've made sure I could make more before I moved here (and I do!).
I pay $450 a month for an EFFICIENCY apartment (that's one room basically, plus a bathroom), here in Minneapolis--and that was the cheapest rate I was able to find when I moved back here, and the neighborhood is kind of "iffy". But housing demand in the Twin Cities was incredibly high when I moved back here.... It took me almost a month before I could get an affordable place like this one--I was living at my cousin's in the meantime.
In rural areas I know rents are less, as they also tend to be in the South (even in cities), but in rural areas jobs for outsiders are harder to come by than in cities, and in southern cities the pay is usually less than in the north, so it evens out anyway....
It would be pretty hard for me to live on $200 a week, and impossible on $100 a week (wouldn't even pay my low rent), which is why I've made sure I could make more before I moved here (and I do!).
BlueMonday
Can I Kick It?
He lives in a small apartment -I'd usually say "studio" but it's not quaint like you usually think of a studio apartment- one room and a bathroom. It's in the back of a Gym in Sugarhouse for the price of $250 a month for it. He must know the owner or something becuase similar apartments would usually run at least $450 in this hood. Me and two of my homees live up the street in a two bedroom apartment for $850.
He's one of those neighborhood guys so if he needs something almost anyone in this area will give it to him. He probably cuts a lot off his food costs by taking spare food off some of the restaurants along 21st south. I do know that he usually alleviates Millcreek Bagels of much of their daily throwaway.
He's written a few books, but nothing of any acclaim (he's only gotten but a few hundred dollars from the sales of his books; most of which were probably bought by critics so they could say how much they hated his writing). That's pretty much all the guy does is read and write. You walk into his apartment and the whole small place is filled with books. The only furniture he has is a bed and if you want to sit anywhere else, you either find counterspace or sit on one of his stacks.
He's very strange. But like I said before, he is by far the happiest person I've ever met.
He's one of those neighborhood guys so if he needs something almost anyone in this area will give it to him. He probably cuts a lot off his food costs by taking spare food off some of the restaurants along 21st south. I do know that he usually alleviates Millcreek Bagels of much of their daily throwaway.
He's written a few books, but nothing of any acclaim (he's only gotten but a few hundred dollars from the sales of his books; most of which were probably bought by critics so they could say how much they hated his writing). That's pretty much all the guy does is read and write. You walk into his apartment and the whole small place is filled with books. The only furniture he has is a bed and if you want to sit anywhere else, you either find counterspace or sit on one of his stacks.
He's very strange. But like I said before, he is by far the happiest person I've ever met.
ComradeDavo
Formerly God
BlueMonday - that guy sounds like a great bloke. Proves you don't need money to be happy, an example to us all.
RedWolf - this left v right argument will rage for eternity, we all gotta have a break sometime
Going back to the topic title for a sec ''Do you really feel that the US way is right?'' I have a question for you, if you do really beleive it is right is this because the national news told you so or because you have looked at as much stuff relating to the situation that you could get your hands on and come to your own conclusion.
RedWolf - this left v right argument will rage for eternity, we all gotta have a break sometime
Going back to the topic title for a sec ''Do you really feel that the US way is right?'' I have a question for you, if you do really beleive it is right is this because the national news told you so or because you have looked at as much stuff relating to the situation that you could get your hands on and come to your own conclusion.
andycapp
Grumpy Old Griper
If you mean the US actions to destroy the Taliban, al Qaeda and Bin Laden - yes - for want of a viable alternative.
I came to this conclusion without the assistance of the Western media - how about you?
I came to this conclusion without the assistance of the Western media - how about you?
ComradeDavo
Formerly God
''If you mean the US actions to destroy the Taliban, al Qaeda and Bin Laden - yes - for want of a viable alternative.'' - well that is one of the many things that this question could apply to, so yeah.
It is a viable alternative I wish for, but idealy this wouldn't have happened at all.
yep, came to the conclusion by myself
It is a viable alternative I wish for, but idealy this wouldn't have happened at all.
yep, came to the conclusion by myself
andycapp
Grumpy Old Griper
Sometimes there is no alternative to war - unfortunately this is not an ideal world. Do you have a viable alternative to propose?
ComradeDavo
Formerly God
The current campaign will only deal with terrorism in the short term, in the long term the best way to end it would be to remove it's support, meaning that september 11th didn't just happen because Bin Laden wanted to kill people it happened because his somewhat twisted warped beliefs do have some aspects that people from the Arab world sympathise thus people support his cause, in my opinion there needs to be a serious reveiw of why this.
The fact is that people are genuiningly angry at the way the US conducts itself on the world stage, for a variety of reasons and someone like Bin Laden canmanupilate this to there own will. The way I see it the only way to end support for fanatics such as Bin laden is to take away these reasons and to do this these issues of why America and the western world is hated so must be addressed and remidied.
The fact is that people are genuiningly angry at the way the US conducts itself on the world stage, for a variety of reasons and someone like Bin Laden canmanupilate this to there own will. The way I see it the only way to end support for fanatics such as Bin laden is to take away these reasons and to do this these issues of why America and the western world is hated so must be addressed and remidied.
The war will have long term effects. It will further demostrate for most to see yet more strong evidence that terrosim, at least against pwerful states, is couterproductive and often suicidal for an organizations AND THEIR ALLIES. It will reduce the number of result oriented or halfway rational persons who believe it to be a suceesful means of warfare.
andycapp
Grumpy Old Griper
No disagreement that the campaign in Afghanistan is only the beginning, however the notion that the Western world is responsible for Bin Laden's rise (and subsequent actions) ignores the reasons and responsibility within the Islamic world for September 11.
Yes, there does need to be a review of the reasons for September 11 and it should be a rational and dispassionate appraisal of the facts - not a politically correct knee jerk reaction.
Yes, there is much hatred of the Western world within the Arab/Islamic world, and the root cause of this is varied and complex. This has more to do with internal repression and conflict within the Islamic world than the direct actions of the Western world.
The assumption that it is up to the West to remedy these problems is patronizing and naive - Islam must come to terms with it's own problems if it wishes to regain it's stature as one of the worlds pre-eminent religions and civilizations.
BlueMonday
Can I Kick It?
Instead of asking only, "Do you think the U.S. way is right?" you (meaning non-americans) should also ask, "Is my country's way the right way?"
ComradeDavo
Formerly God
Then why is this western world interfering in Afgahnistans civil war, why did the US and Great Britain fight the Gulf War and regually bomb Iraq and why do American and British troops reside in such countries as Saudi Arabia and Oman? **cough oil oil cough**
And how many times have we been told this war is NOT about ISLAM!!!!!!!!!!!!
And once again I voice the opinion held by many a British citezen, 'If this is truely a war against terrorism why aren't British troops storming the beaches of Florida?'
Viable alternative - the USA ends it's obsession with secruring the Middle East's oil fields and removes it's troops from these Arab countires, leaving a UN peacekeeping force in Afghanistan and Kuwait. Terrorists being sheltered in the US by the American government be tried by an international tribunal, American support for organisations ranging from Irish dissedents
to anti-communist forces in Indonesia be ceased and there is serious discussion on the Isreali crisis - even I don't have a soloution for that one
Ok, thats my opinion, feel free to do whatever you like with it just don't dismiss it out of hand. sorry for being a bit scant on the details but i'm in a rush, so that's the general gist of things.
Just quickly to what Blue Monday said - any person who truely beleifs in Democracy should always be questioning their own government
edit 1 - grammer
edit 2- when I talk about American sheltered terrorists I mean if it really wants to take action in countries such as Afghanistan then it should lead by example and stop being hypocritical.
Solar power may be the power of the future.
The current problem is cost. For that two week period of very high
gas prices solar power looked very good. Japan is one of the major researchers in the field and their goal "as of 3-4 years ago"
was to bring the cost of solar eletricity down about 25%.
this is a engineering problem and wether it can be solved is unknown, but if it could the one prediction i make is that the oil companies might try to keep it off the market.
polite comments be those who know more welcome
thapagan
The current problem is cost. For that two week period of very high
gas prices solar power looked very good. Japan is one of the major researchers in the field and their goal "as of 3-4 years ago"
was to bring the cost of solar eletricity down about 25%.
this is a engineering problem and wether it can be solved is unknown, but if it could the one prediction i make is that the oil companies might try to keep it off the market.
polite comments be those who know more welcome
thapagan
amadeus
Bishop of Bio-Dome
The problem is not only cost:
It's efficiency, availibility, and of course, being able to produce a profit. Nobody's going to want to build a power plant when the expenses outweigh the revenues, and I, will NEVER support an initiative to make all power plants run by the government.
It's efficiency, availibility, and of course, being able to produce a profit. Nobody's going to want to build a power plant when the expenses outweigh the revenues, and I, will NEVER support an initiative to make all power plants run by the government.
sonorakitch
Overseas hunter
Comrade,
"why do American and British troops reside in such countries as Saudi Arabia and Oman? "
I think it is because they asked us. (Remember Iraq *cough*)
"And once again I voice the opinion held by many a British citezen, 'If this is truely a war against terrorism why aren't British troops storming the beaches of Florida?"
I guess I don't understand this one. Are you referring to the terrorists who resided there? Well then, that is our problem and I certainly don't think British troops will solve anything. And I certainly hope we can.
"leaving a UN peacekeeping force in Afghanistan and Kuwait. "
I don't think the UN has the track record for this.
"Terrorists being sheltered in the US by the American government be tried by an international tribunal,"
Lets remember--this was an attack on our people. We will be the ones responsible for "bringing them to justice". If September 11th had occurred against Big Ben, I think we would leave it up to the British Justice system to handle it.
"just don't dismiss it out of hand. "
I won't. I read it quite closely. And I just disagree with some of your statements.
~Chris
"why do American and British troops reside in such countries as Saudi Arabia and Oman? "
I think it is because they asked us. (Remember Iraq *cough*)
"And once again I voice the opinion held by many a British citezen, 'If this is truely a war against terrorism why aren't British troops storming the beaches of Florida?"
I guess I don't understand this one. Are you referring to the terrorists who resided there? Well then, that is our problem and I certainly don't think British troops will solve anything. And I certainly hope we can.
"leaving a UN peacekeeping force in Afghanistan and Kuwait. "
I don't think the UN has the track record for this.
"Terrorists being sheltered in the US by the American government be tried by an international tribunal,"
Lets remember--this was an attack on our people. We will be the ones responsible for "bringing them to justice". If September 11th had occurred against Big Ben, I think we would leave it up to the British Justice system to handle it.
"just don't dismiss it out of hand. "
I won't. I read it quite closely. And I just disagree with some of your statements.
~Chris
Maj
Emperor
How about regulated?
-Maj
andycapp
Grumpy Old Griper
Simple, a barbaric and murderous Islamic government, the Taliban, have given shelter and active support to an even more barbaric group of Islamic murderers called al Qaeda who are responsible for the atrocities of September 11 - oil has nothing to do with the current conflict in Afghanistan - I challenge you to show that it does.
This war is very much about Islam. I suggest you read this article by Salman Rushdie, he explains it very succinctly www.theage.com.au/news/state/2001/11/06/FFX1WH04NTC.html
Has it occurred to you that this has much more to do with the turmoil within the Islamic world than the actions of the 'oil' hungary West.
Rather than replaying that old Leftwing record 'oil conspiracy' why not look at what prominent Muslims are saying about this issue such as Anwar Ibrahim, the former Deputy Prime Minister of Malaysia. www.freeanwar.com/articles/article111001.html
Thankyou for taking the time to answer my question. Obviously I disagree with most of what you've said although your point about hypocrisy on what constitutes 'terror' maybe well founded - we shall have to wait and see. Btw, one of the biggest problems in Indonesia right at the moment is the inability/unwillingness of Megawati Sukarno's government to stop the murderous jihad against Indonesian Christians by the Laskar Jihad - an extremist Islamic group trained and funded by Bin Laden.
Your proposal that America should have left the pursuit of Bin Laden in Afghanistan to the UN is not practical as they have neither the will nor the means to do the job - the Americans do.
Footnote: my apologies for again posting the links to the Salman Rushdie and Anwar Ibrahim articles - however they provide an intelligent and informed response to the argument that America and the West are ultimately responsible for September 11.
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