Manco Capac
Friday,13 June,I Collapse
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2010
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That'd be much appreciated Tachyw.
Stopping off-topic comments or creating a thread.


That'd be much appreciated Tachyw.
I've tested over a large number of games and it appears that AIs will not volunatrily vassalize anymore, even if you have good relations and they are lower in Power.
Only capitulated vassals and AIs asking for help when at war
with someone else will give you the option now.
I do have a few things to say about this.
It's noticeable with the AI and it appears to affect them as well.
Normally, in the previous versions built directly on Rhye's mechanics,
it wasn't uncommon to spawn as America and see Britain or France with 5 vassals already.
In the current version, the same civs will only typically have 1 or 2 at most.
Facing very large coalitions on spawn should be a thing of the past now, as I tested with my Brazil game; my starting war was much more manageable than before.
But as a tradeoff, the big civs are more dangerous than before.
First, thanks for your article about the AP. Extensively used I can assure you.
Can you release your save? That'll help.
Capitulation boils down to two levels of check in form of denials.
1) The first check that has priority is like "We're fine on our own!" or "We're afraid of your enemies!".
The first one is the most important and the most common. Also the one that annoys people because it is tied to all nations in the world.
IIRC, there's a calculated threshold of 2/3*(SumOfAllPowers/#players) and if the one is over that threshold, that potential capitulee will refuse any capitulation because "they feel confident" in their own power. The problem of that denial arises when you left alive a bunch of devastated vassals with few cities (or crappy) with an immensely weak army. That plummets the threshold and impede your future capitulations. Peacevassaling works same for the same denial.
2) The second check is "You're joking, right!" denial, which is basically a thing for capitulation only, not peacevassaling. It's basically tied to War Success system where once you reach the threshold of 40 points, the AI is willing to relinquish power. It's basically a denial that says do damages before considering we have lost.
How War Success is calculated?
There's a balance Sheet for both sides and a substraction is done. Positive WSuccess on your side and negative on the capitulee side.
Attacking and win ==> 4 points
Defending and win ==> 3 points
Capture a city ==> 10 points
Capture a worker or settler ==> 1 points
Nuke ==> always 10 points per explosion
Units in Ships ==> 0 points
Workers/Settlers that accompany some escort ==> It is an amalgam of attacking a unit plus the # of non combat units captured.
Example: Won over an archer and captured two workers at the same time is worth 6 war success points.
And that covers all in a nutshell.
There are also the factors as increased resistance (XML value) that comes with certain leaders (most known is Genghis) and number of war allies that border the pot. capitulee, but that is advanced capitulation knowledge.
To not worry about Pacal II peacevassaling, just beg some gold (to neutralize the war dec once peacevassaling occurs) or bribe someone on the one you think may become a master.
Never mind that last statement. Both of you are war allies.
Pertaining to the spawning civ. For instance, I have just discovered around the Sinai, there are two tiles labeled historical for Arabia, which often is at war with me with either Egypt of Babylon. If historical tiles don't count for liberation forces, then it means I can hide my units there while baiting Bedouins there and kill them safely without fear of losing units.
Indeed, if historical tiles are not discounted, then avoiding the loss of units is far far more difficult against civs with large core and historical region.
But I believe historical tiles don't count. Just need the green light from the connoisseur.![]()
Sadly experience can be misleading. I have seen many cases of mechanics that seemingly take a deterministic direction but ended to be off of the right factors.
What Leoreth may talk about are two XML variables:
1) Attitude threshold for either vassalization or resource demand (yeah same variable for two mechanics).
2) Increased resistance to capitulation
What I was referring to is of a deeper laying in the code, the hardcored SDK (or DLL as people call it here) where it certainly uses the XML values to give flavor. The hardcoded part is the one that defines the rules of vassalization and capitulation. And from what I recalled, both were based on the same function, but capitulation had a special check knowingly called "You're joking, right..."
Anyways, I'm lazy for the moment (long day). Will take an old post of mine I wrote for some jerk.
Historical tiles are safe. I think defending the Sinai as Egypt against Arabia is a working strategy, though I haven't tried it yet.
The AI now isn't any more resistant to capitulation than before,
only more resistant to voluntary vassalization, as Leoreth wrote.
In my Ottoman Domination game, I capitulated Russia after only 1 city capture and a couple kills,
but the context was that before they entered war with me, some time ago,
they concluded a peace with the Prussians who had the upper hand and drained most of their forces in the previous conflict.
This is on the most recent SVN version, of course (at the time),
but as I've tested with some Mughal runs on the most up-to-date SVN version, still very much applicable.
Thanks Tachy. You are always an illuminating light to gameplay mechanics.
So I should essentially go around with my stack and try and bait units out of cities?
That's right.But I believe historical tiles don't count.
That's what I was talking about.What Leoreth may talk about are two XML variables:
1) Attitude threshold for either vassalization or resource demand (yeah same variable for two mechanics).
DLL is the right term. SDK means software development kit and only refers to the required source files to compile the DLL.What I was referring to is of a deeper laying in the code, the hardcored SDK (or DLL as people call it here) where it certainly uses the XML values to give flavor. The hardcoded part is the one that defines the rules of vassalization and capitulation. And from what I recalled, both were based on the same function, but capitulation had a special check knowingly called "You're joking, right..."
Someone told me that regular DoC does have no world builder, but it is not the case. My future games will be played on the same edited scenario that adds Lock Modified Assets.
But if the anti-cheat is already available, can someone lead me to it? I don't release game saves so it can't be seen. I want them to be seen. But I refuse to play with worldbuilder on. Question of principle. POV.
I was a HoFer and was conditioned like that with BUFFY mod.
IIRC, the WB is only disabled in multiplayer mode. I haven't seen any mod in which the WB is disabled.
Can I receive a little help for this win? Arabia/Monarch/Normal 600 AD 1.11
Start was normal, flipped Byzantine possessions, Byzantines declared war in response. Took the spawned Camel Archer stack and headed west to raze Benghazi and capture Tarabulus to prevent an Egyptian respawn.
Stopped the Seljuks cold at Baghdad while building a stack of Trebs and Heavy Swordsmen. Bribed a newly spawned Turkey on a Mongol-weakened Russia with Paper, who then collapsed. While Turkey was invading Russia, I declared with my stack and forced Turkey (who had not taken Constantinople) out of their native lands, and then proceeded to take Constantinople and Athens. Turkey offered to capitulate, but I didn't feel like taking the stability hit from having to liberate their cities, so I just took peace, expecting them to collapse. Meanwhile Iran spawned at war with me and sent some small stacks to take Baghdad to no effect. Currently crushing them.
Built University of Sankore, so I'm trying to avoid the Liberalism line until the last moment.
My question is: where do I go from here? I don't want to turtle till tanks, because that's a snooze. I have a comfortable tech lead, but everyone but the Mughals and Mali hates me. What should I do? Wage an anti-crusade against the Europeans?
Also, Tomorrow's Dawn, stop being so good.![]()
Can I receive a little help for this win? Arabia/Monarch/Normal 600 AD 1.11
Start was normal, flipped Byzantine possessions, Byzantines declared war in response. Took the spawned Camel Archer stack and headed west to raze Benghazi and capture Tarabulus to prevent an Egyptian respawn.
Stopped the Seljuks cold at Baghdad while building a stack of Trebs and Heavy Swordsmen. Bribed a newly spawned Turkey on a Mongol-weakened Russia with Paper, who then collapsed. While Turkey was invading Russia, I declared with my stack and forced Turkey (who had not taken Constantinople) out of their native lands, and then proceeded to take Constantinople and Athens. Turkey offered to capitulate, but I didn't feel like taking the stability hit from having to liberate their cities, so I just took peace, expecting them to collapse. Meanwhile Iran spawned at war with me and sent some small stacks to take Baghdad to no effect. Currently crushing them.
Built University of Sankore, so I'm trying to avoid the Liberalism line until the last moment.
My question is: where do I go from here? I don't want to turtle till tanks, because that's a snooze. I have a comfortable tech lead, but everyone but the Mughals and Mali hates me. What should I do? Wage an anti-crusade against the Europeans?
Also, Tomorrow's Dawn, stop being so good.![]()
How far Turkey did invade Russia? Did they captured some independent cities?
If they progress far, why not taking them as vassals? Yeah, I have heard about some stability hit if you got some unstable vassals, but I have rather gave up to understand how RFC works as it is much more undecipherable than other mods and the regular game.
I wished to look into the game, but I'm still on DoC version 1.10. And not willing to relearn via the newest SVN because my time is ultimately tight. And I still wish to fight for the slots taken by Blizzrd and Jusos, which is impossible with the newest SVN because how Jusos ruled them out. Auld lang syne, come back to me! T_T