DoC Domination Challenge

[Manco Capac]

Although, I am not too keen in exploiting the AI's spawn bug of moving the units out of the capital.

If I hadn't the problem with the forces of liberation with a civ with which I hadn't decided to be in war and on top of that decidedly asked for all my best cities, including my capital, I wouldn't have been forced to use it.

Just as Tenenbaum shows, with ancient civs, your stability suffers greatly from peaks to troughs and such events like Arabia only propels Egypt to its doom if left untouched.

 

[The Diocletian]

What should one do if you cannot capitulate Russia? I tried in my Ottoman game and they preferred collapse over capitulation.

 

[Manco Capac]

You need to understand how capitulation works before thinking how to make Russia recovers.

 

[Jusos2108]

What should one do if you cannot capitulate Russia? I tried in my Ottoman game and they preferred collapse over capitulation.

To put it simply: kill units, cities don't matter that much.

 

[Manco Capac]

As he says. In term of pushing towards capitulation, killing 10 units is equivalent to 4 captured cities (in the theoritical sense of an empty city). And regarding stability, the effects of a mass murder of their units is temporary for stability.

 

[Leoreth]

More importantly, war effects on stability end as soon as peace is made.

 

[Manco Capac]

Hey Leoreth: Did you touch the capitulation/peacevassaling rules or not? Just to be sure what I read for the regular BTS isn't outdated now and gives bad tips therefore.

The only changes I have seen so far are:
1) You can get 5 vassals max
2)Vassals are less likely to trade techs once you get two or more of them (it seems the attitude averaging works for vassals too...it seems)

Otherwise, regarding peacevassaling and capitulation hardcoded (DLL) rules, methinks they are the same. Only the XML attitude thresholds are changed, but that's normal to variegate from mods to mods.

 

[Manco Capac]

Another question: Does the forces of liberation mechanics limited to the newly spawned civ's core area? Are water tiles affected?

Also, I think you should restrict to military units. Although we may relate to some cases in RL (Einstein for one), GPeople losses are too harsh. And anyways, forces of liberation must be militia, not random non-combat unit.

 

[Leoreth]

Hey Leoreth: Did you touch the capitulation/peacevassaling rules or not? Just to be sure what I read for the regular BTS isn't outdated now and gives bad tips therefore.

The only changes I have seen so far are:
1) You can get 5 vassals max
2)Vassals are less likely to trade techs once you get two or more of them (it seems the attitude averaging works for vassals too...it seems)

Otherwise, regarding peacevassaling and capitulation hardcoded (DLL) rules, methinks they are the same. Only the XML attitude thresholds are changed, but that's normal to variegate from mods to mods.

I think so. I haven't made any changes to that iirc, so everything that's different from BtS is Rhye's work.

Another question: Does the forces of liberation mechanics limited to the newly spawned civ's core area? Are water tiles affected?

You mean on civ spawn? Yes. Get out of their core and your units are safe. I have never seen water tiles being affected but it could be the case.

Also, I think you should restrict to military units. Although we may relate to some cases in RL (Einstein for one), GPeople losses are too harsh. And anyways, forces of liberation must be militia, not random non-combat unit.

Ugh, yeah. The whole civ spawn mechanic is another thing I'd like to completely rewrite to get rid of illogical stuff like this (and knowing Rhye, because it is probably completely unelegant and needlessly complicated).

 

[Jusos2108]

Ugh, yeah. The whole civ spawn mechanic is another thing I'd like to completely rewrite to get rid of illogical stuff like this (and knowing Rhye, because it is probably completely unelegant and needlessly complicated).

Another reason to rewrite it would be that in my experience the liberation mechanic takes the weakest unit of a stack of maybe ~5 (so that a stack of 10 would lose two units) and you can cheat this by placing a worker(s) in your stack (that can be recaptured later of course).

 

[Manco Capac]

You mean on civ spawn? Yes. Get out of their core and your units are safe. I have never seen water tiles being affected but it could be the case.

Yup. What about historical tiles?

 

[therox]

Do vassals count as % for the Domination win ?

 

[Manco Capac]

Do vassals count as % for the Domination win ?

Yes. I think it's half their land and pop.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

I've tested over a large number of games and it appears that AIs will not volunatrily vassalize anymore, even if you have good relations and they are lower in Power.

Only capitulated vassals and AIs asking for help when at war
with someone else will give you the option now.

I do have a few things to say about this.
It's noticeable with the AI and it appears to affect them as well.
Normally, in the previous versions built directly on Rhye's mechanics,
it wasn't uncommon to spawn as America and see Britain or France with 5 vassals already.
In the current version, the same civs will only typically have 1 or 2 at most.
Facing very large coalitions on spawn should be a thing of the past now, as I tested with my Brazil game; my starting war was much more manageable than before.
But as a tradeoff, the big civs are more dangerous than before.

 

[Leoreth]

Yup. What about historical tiles?

Whose?

I've tested over a large number of games and it appears that AIs will not volunatrily vassalize anymore, even if you have good relations and they are lower in Power.

I have increased the relation threshold for vassalization for most leaders a while ago because I was tired of seeing the smaller civs constantly peacevassalized.

 

[Oregon Lee]

I have increased the relation threshold for vassalization for most leaders a while ago because I was tired of seeing the smaller civs constantly peacevassalized.

The Mughals need to be more inclined to vassal though. England defends in India decently but is crappy at invasion.
Perhaps Mali and Congo as well, although I haven't seen Mali in my games recently.
Also, the Congo settles cities WAY too close, and on swamps. Can you even attack a city on a swamp?

 

[Leoreth]

I don't think I've changed the Mughals after I've seen them consistently become the British Raj in the 1700 AD scenario.

 

[Manco Capac]

Whose?

Pertaining to the spawning civ. For instance, I have just discovered around the Sinai, there are two tiles labeled historical for Arabia, which often is at war with me with either Egypt of Babylon. If historical tiles don't count for liberation forces, then it means I can hide my units there while baiting Bedouins there and kill them safely without fear of losing units.

Indeed, if historical tiles are not discounted, then avoiding the loss of units is far far more difficult against civs with large core and historical region.

But I believe historical tiles don't count. Just need the green light from the connoisseur.

 

[Manco Capac]

Hmmm, I'm starting to think I'm hijacking this thread for dom a lot. Perhaps I'll open a thread about strategy and mechanics of the game. I think that is missing.

 

[Oregon Lee]

That'd be much appreciated Tachyw.