The Great DoC UHV v 1.13 challenge

[sercer88]

Civ: England
Victory: UHV
Version: v1.13
Start: 600AD
Score normalized:
Actual Victory: 1761 (t992)?
Difficulty: Regent
Speed: Marathon
Savefile: View attachment 401757

Thanks for soul-breathing's notes! This is a Marathon speed version of England UHV.

Could anyone help to load and check if there is a bug or sth? I expected the victory at the end of this turn. However, the civ program was stopped right after I clicked the red button. Thanks!

I did not get a crash.
Normalized Score: 12406

Nice work!

 

[Andrrew]

Byzantium / Paragon / Normal / 600AD
v1.13
Normalised Score: 15,473
Actual Date: 1450AD
Effective Date: 1270AD

View attachment Justinian I AD-1450 Turn 271.CivBeyondSwordSave
View attachment Justinian I AD-1270 Turn 248.CivBeyondSwordSave

As you can see I never lost a city to Seljuks / Mongols. Pretty much all cities build cataphracts. Built 50 and finished with 44.. minimal losses as I drop a few catapults on the incoming stacks before attacking.

Techs are mostly useless, you have everything you need for UHV victory at the beginning (and on Paragon you are unlikely to reach Gunpowder before Mongols/Turks come).

Effective date can be improved to ~1200AD if player goes for Hesperides sooner.

The total score can also be improved if someone goes on rampage mode and conquers Middle East / India / Europe with the idle 40+ cataphracts, between 1300AD and 1450AD.

 

[Andrrew]

Polynesia / Paragon / Normal / 3000BC
v1.13
Normalised Score: 5,975
Actual Date: 910AD

View attachment Aho'eitu Stone Age Turn 212.CivBeyondSwordSave

On Paragon, don't bother with tech (apart from requirements for Moai), set it to 0%.
Also, time your last 2 settlers so that you avoid stability issues.

 

[Eric Cartmenez]

My contribution:
Portugal UHV, Regent, 1.13, no GIT, score 4645, virtual victory turn 137 (1685AD)
Built infrastructure in Lisboa first, then declared war on Moors with the Spain, conquered and razed Cordoba to make place for Lisboa, tech - Compass - Optics - Banking - Astronomy - Drama, then financed culture for them borders to spread more quickly, getting both conqueror events, using South American knights & trebuchets not on Inca, but ferried them to Congo - conquered their capital, then capitulated them, took and kept Mesoamerican cities, settling Carribbean region, Belem - Rio - Sao Paulo - Fortaleza, connected TC resources (gained sugar and banana from Mughals too), then settled the rest of Brazil, Southeast Africa, hurried TC with GE, bought Quelimane & Malaca, conquered Cantao. Won UHV.

 

[Andrrew]

Holy Rome / Paragon / Normal / 600AD
v1.13
Normalised Score: 11,081
Actual Date: 1435AD

View attachment Barbarossa AD-1435 Turn 268.CivBeyondSwordSave

Techs: Guilds, Drama, Printing Press, then not important (unlikely to reach Patronage first...)

Starting units should be able to capture Venice, Rome, Budapest and Kiev without much loss. I like to found Berlin as well as Riga (SW of Cow).
Promoted starting units + couple of support Horsemen should make their way to Jerusalem on foot post Seljuk conquest; most likely Jerusalem is lightly defended.

Given it's not a long term game, I build Wealth / Science in all cities post Monastery/Church/Library. I actually held off with Specialists until got the Theatres up, to accelerate victory.

Russia will declare war at some point, potentially France/Norse as well. In early game barter a Peace Treaty whenever you can. Post Guilds just keep building those Knights in Frankfurt and they will have no chance.

A bold player could try this without researching Guilds, as volumes of Horsemen could also work..

 

[Publicola]

Civilisation: Phoenicia
Victory Type: Historical
Version: 1.13 (no Git)
Score (normalized): 46979, Augustus Caesar
Difficulty: Regent
Gamespeed: Normal
Virtual Date: t125
Game Save (virtual): View attachment Hannibal (Publicola) Iron Age Turn 125 -virtual.CivBeyondSwordSave
Actual Date: t154, 200 AD
Game Save (actual): View attachment Hannibal (Publicola) AD-0200 Turn 154 -actual.CivBeyondSwordSave

Oddly enough, the early game turned out to be much easier to play than the later part of a Carthage game, though part of that was due to the challenge I'd set out for myself.

Spoiler :

I spawned with two Huluganni from Asia Minor, so it was a bit of a puzzle to ferry them to Greece and ferry my two settlers to Qart-Hadest and Barcino as quickly as possible. (As most strategy guides will tell you, ignore Sur. It just slows you down). It turns out that units can move freely in enemy territory when you haven't settled your first city yet, so I used that to position my troops to capture their workers before taking the city. I moved my troops quickly down to seize Egypt's capital as well, though I waited until after they traded Agriculture to me.

Spoiler :

My early game was almost entirely focused on wonders and tech. Both Athenai and Niwt-Rst are immensely useful, though the trick is to not let them grow too big too fast lest you lose a city due to stability. Egypt built a settler first (to plant on Iol, which like Carthage focused almost entirely on growth for much of the game) then Hanging Gardens, while Athens and Barcino built the Oracle and Ishtar Gate (for culture and for tech). I used Athens to work for my Great Merchant spawn -- it focused mainly on building the Colossus, Great Lighthouse, and Temple of Artemis. After its wonder, Barcino focused on units.

Spoiler :

Rome proved to be deceptively easy -- my heavily promoted Huluganni, plus a bunch of Axemen -- made short work of them. Once they finished there, I sent my Huluganni across the Persian Empire to the borders of India, where the lightly defended Indian cities lay in my path. Yeah, I conquered India. It was honestly pretty easy, though the constant barbarians were a pain. I finagled my tech path so I could switch to Republic (thanks Parthenon) + Organized Religion once I'd finished the classical wonders, then converted to Buddhism so my two Indian cities could set to work building the Indian wonders.

Spoiler :

This proved additionally helpful because I timed the completion of each wonder for the same turn I discovered a new tech, avoiding any issues with overexpansion stability. That wasn't entirely successful though; for whatever reason, when I discovered Feudalism, I descended into a crisis even though I completed the Borobudur the same turn (not sure if that's a bug report, but either way: Leoreth?) That cost me a bit of score -- Athens seceded, I had to reconquer it, losing a bit of culture and population. I wonder if I should have let my score fall to Unstable early so its secession wouldn't have had such a last-minute effect.

Anyway, that was my end game: teching like mad, dealing with lots of barbarians (a mobile stack of Chariots solves the Germanic Axeman problem in Europe, Spearmen solve most of the barb problem in India), building wonders in India, growing my population everywhere else, and letting my Great People take care of the UHV (in the end analysis, I popped two Great Merchants and two Great Engineers). Also, Babylon eventually collapsed, allowing me to capture both Jerusalem and Babylon for their two wonders as well.

Spoiler :

 

[Tigranes]

^^ Good game! Never seen Garehemish before, which is the most traditional name of that city, while owned by the other civ, Antioch?

 

[Eric Cartmenez]

Poland UHV - v 1.13, no GIT, Regent difficulty, winning date 1580AD, virtual = actual.

Founded Krakow on spot, Warszawa on horse 2N1E of Krakow, sent Knight to conquer and raze Buda (defended with 1 swordsman in my case ), razing Buda provides Wheat 2S of Krakow, which is vital for the 1st UHV, the rest of my army went to conquer Kijow (lost one Crossbowman and Heavy swordsman and Horse archer in process), these are the 3 cities you need for the 1UHV, micromanage your workes to improve food resources first, no time to improve iron and building roads --- plaque struck, but somehow I managed to lost just -2 pop in Warszawa and -1 pop in others (built Smokehouses and Aquaducts). After food resources improved, chop forests and farm grasslands. The first UHV is pressing, sometimes more starts to optimalize things are needed. Remember that every city must have at least 2 food resources worked ... + Krakow/Warszaw can share Cow, Warszaw/Kijov can share Deer.

After 1st goal passed, switched to slavery for rushing (aka sacrifacing unhappy people ), I produced 2 settlers (Gdansk, Odessa), split religions between them so I had 4 Catholic and 4 Orthodox churches ASAP and access to Cathedrals (I built Catholic Cathedral in Warszawa, Orthodox Cathedral in Kijow). HRE invented Printing Press, make sure to have as many Open Borders as possible to spread Protestantism to your empire (in my case just Krakow went Protestant), built Protestant Monastery, spreaded Protestantism to 3 other cities, at the end built Protestant Cathedral in Krakow ... Golden Age, traded techs for money to be able to run 100% research, won UHV in 1580AD while 3 turn of GA still ahead

Buildings strategy - Semjik (2), then Churches/Monasteries, then Amphitheatre and army to keep you large cities content, after 1st UHV condition met, sacrifice those unhappy ones for Cathedrals.

Great people - I decided to go for 1 Great Scientist (bulb Education), 1 Great Prophet (bulb Liberalism).

Teching - Music, Drama, Philosophy ... traded for Paper ... Education (+GS to accelerate), traded Printing Press from Holy Rome ... Liberalism (+ GP to accelerace).

 

[Andrrew]

Italy / Paragon / Normal / 600AD
v1.13
Normalised Score: 8,744
Actual Date: 1733AD

View attachment Cavour AD-1733 Turn 332.CivBeyondSwordSave

Note: I did not reload to get a favourable start - effectively first attempt.

In this game, there was a reasonably strong Byzantium, replaced by a mediocre Turkey, plus a reasonably strong Morocco that owned entire North Africa...
Spain and HR was strong as well, however, French was kinda weak so with starting units I took Marseille - this was a good early boost to tech.
Early game is a tech rush + GP generation, as on Paragon otherwise you wouldn't reach the techs needed for the wonders.
GS bulbed Philosophy, GM bulbed (part of) Banking. I even skipped Drama first and beelined to Patronage.

For second goal, I needed 3 GAs, entrance into renaissance (Education) plus 1,800 culture points (which each of the 3 main cities should generate anyways). This way I could kept science at ~100% throughout the game. To get the 3 GAs just put Leaning Tower and Opera House in the same city, and use the Golden Age wisely.

Afterwards, I needed a non-obsolete military unit to conquer Greece and North Africa. My choice was Grenadier, as Ships of the Line would be a great help in bombardment as well. I managed to bulb Chemistry with Liberalism and got Chemistry in 1645AD.

Note that while teching towards Grenadiers it is highly likely that Turkey/Spain/HR will declare war. Instead of just building wealth/research I had to build troops (10+ Pike/Heavy Sword) to deter / defend. In any case these units will be helpful later, once promoted to CR and upgraded to Grenadiers..

Interesting angle was that Turkey had DP with Russia who was super strong, hence declared war when I attacked Turkey. However, I managed to get a DP with Spain beforehand, and sent their huge stack ("Why don't you attack?") towards a huge incoming Russian stack, saving my freshly conquered Constantinople..

 

[sercer88]

Poland UHV - v 1.13, no GIT, Regent difficulty, winning date 1580AD, virtual = actual.

rrrrgh, you just had to go post a win as Poland 4 hours before I finally got it.
No doubt your final score is better than mine since it's a higher difficulty than I always play.

Well, at least I have an earlier winning date (all because of the lower difficulty setting I'm sure!)
So here goes:
Poland UHV. v 1.13, no GIT.
Heir Difficulty. 600 AD Scenario - normal speed.
Win date: 1540 AD. Score: 3290

Strategy / Notes inside the spoiler:

Spoiler :

In maybe 4 tries each of 3000BC and 600AD Scenario, it was clear that the 600AD scenario was much easier due to more reliable city/civ structure and also the fact that Orthodoxy is guaranteed to be in the game when you arrive. In only 1/4 tries in the 3000 BC scenario was the Apostolic Palace built in time for me to spread Orthodoxy to 4 of my cities and build a Cathedral.

In order to expedite my population growth I switched out of Levy Armies into Mercenaries (in addition to helping me achieve my first UHV goal, this is also helpful if you get an early DOW from your very powerful neighbors.) Also, it's not necessary to do this, but I also switched from Vassalage to Absolutism for two reasons: #1 it keeps me from getting a (usually inconsequential) incompatible civics hit and #2 the extra hammers and commerce in the capitol either make up for losing the Levy Armies food bonus, and/or makes it easier to research techs.

In this game neither Vikings nor Russia had settled in the Riga (Ryga) area yet (River/coast with access to Wheat, Fish, and Cow) so I sent a settler there to found my 2nd city. Of course Warsaw founded first. I sent my missionary to Ryga to build Catholic Monastery and Church for the Apostolic Palace production bonus. I conquered Kijow but lost my Knight, Heavy Swordman, and 1 Longbow with a 90% win probability. I only had 3 units remaining so I trained at least 5 or 6 longbows in Warsaw for military happiness in my cities to grow - and as a hopeful deterrent to the Vikings who had a small stack in Germany. Thankfully Germany was at war with the Vikings until the mid 1400's - even letting Vikings control Magdeburg for almost a century! Buda was occupied by Byzantium but Kiev was still Indie, and since I was able to found Ryga so far away from Kiev and Warsaw, I just left Byzantium alone to let them collapse to the Turks.

Through my limited playthrough's I've realized that the way you use your workers can really affect how likely you are to reach your population goal. You as soon as possible you should improve at least 2-3 food resources in Kijow or else that city will not make it to size 12 in time. In all my playthroughs, that city was always the last to make it to 12. My specific worker movements were to improve the cow in Krakow first, then 1 build roads to the Deer near Kijow. Then the other build camp on deer and then pasture on the pig/hill. Then you can disperse the 3 workers 1 to each city (advisable of course to improve food first, even ignoring roads if possible)

Set research to immediate tech for Liberalism. You can trade for any other techs you may need. I usually try to tech trade with Byzantium 1A and Russia 1B to keep them happy with you even though you're running different religions. Then it's advisable to keep Vikings happy too - or else they can really ruin your day with their Huscarls!
Specifically in my game, I traded for Engineering with Byzantium, and Guilds with Russia. Then Drama and Music for the Cathedrals from France. Compass from Vikings. And Gunpowder from the Mongols. Try to avoid trading Education until you've already researched Liberalism as I never trust my economy to research anything quicker than AI even if I'm clearly the economic power-house. I'd advise you to have the tech requirements to get Military Tradition as your free tech. I haven't tried any other way to be honest.

My city infrastructure is normally get your 2 Catholic buildings first for border expansion and extra production. Then build walls and castles for extra trade routes to help your research.

With the population goal achieved and once I felt secure in my defenses (and the surrounding political situation - lucky for me none of my neighbors declared war on my until like 1515 I think) I built a settler in Warsaw to found G'dansk as my 4th city. Once it grows to at least 5 or 6 and has a few infrastructure buildings (at least the 2 Catholic buildings,) have it work all or almost all shared tiles from Ryga and make Ryga a military production city. In order to make it easier for Ryga to produce units, I had used a Great Statesman to reform my government. I switched back to Vassalage + Levy Armies (for unit production and minimum level 2 military units) + Guilds. Even though I never built workshops, the extra commerce helps a little and the extra production for Forges, Markets, and Groceries is a good bonus. I don't think it's necessary to make the change, but if you have a Great Statesman and don't need it for a Golden Age, then why not use it for Gov't reform, no?

Also, to contrast Eric Cartmenez' strategy, I never needed Slavery. Granted, maybe it's more useful in the higher difficulty levels where you don't get as much free happiness, but production with the Catholic buildings + Chop-rushed Forges usually means you can have enough production to build your infrastructure/religious churches AND your military to prepare for the Reformation.

Speaking of which:
The first (non-official) victory I got for Poland I ligned up 2 defense pacts before researching Printing Press, but I realized this was useless because more likely than not at least 1 of them will end up with the opposite Christian religion when Protestantism is founded. So in this game I just built 4 or 5 Hussars before researching Printing Press around 1500.
I'd also advise you to at least have your first Catholic Cathedral built before finishing Printing Press and starting the Reformation since you'll get those buildings automatically converted if you choose to convert to Protestantism.

Then, with your Winged Hussars you can easily repulse any religious adversary you may have.
In this game, all 3 of my (European) immediate military threats (Vikings, Germany, and France) converted to Protestantism, so it was an easy decision to join the Reformation. (I'm Catholic, so it hurts my conscience to do it, but it's just a game ............ or is it?)

Lastly - Great People. With Poland's UP it's advisable to pop as many Great People as you can to use them for Golden Ages. In Heir difficulty you might not even need Golden Ages (well, of course you get your 2/3 UHV GA) but because it's fun to be so totally powerful I try to get 5-6 Great People and use them for 2 extra Golden Ages.

 

[Eric Cartmenez]

rrrrgh, you just had to go post a win as Poland 4 hours before I finally got it.
No doubt your final score is better than mine since it's a higher difficulty than I always play.

No need to anger, you won with totally different, perhaps more elegant approach
Btw I never used slavery for rushing buildings because of time pressure, I used it to get rid of unhappy citizens (Warszawa at pop 16 has 4-5 not working abundant citizens).

 

[sercer88]

not really angry

well you had to have rushed something - cathedrals right? It doesn't matter - yes I like to see different approaches to try to help my game.

 

[soul-breathing]

Civ: Brazil
Victory: UHV
Version: v1.13, with VD&ECs
Start: 1700AD
Score normalized: 3543
Actual Victory: 1948AD
Difficulty: Monarch
Speed: Epic

Spoiler :

Depend on luck, first you need Portugal declare war to you, so you can receive more troops to conquer Africa: Elmina, Lagos, and East Africa, and when the population reach 7, you can enslave. I only buy 2 slaves from Congo, and enslave 8 from my own city. Also it's luck-depend that Mozambique, Mombasa, Moqadisha and Gondar are all 6 pops when I conquer them, and Elmina at 9, Lagos at 7, so I can enslave 8 slaves just before 1880AD.

Research to radio and plastic straightly, it's lucky that all other civs not build wonders of radio before me(I've ever seen France built Cristo Redentor in 1848ad). But no one want to trade techs with me. So I only trade Physics and Railroad from Portugal and all research by myself.

Obviously It's nearly impossible to win on Emperor or Paragon.

 

[Andrrew]

Turkey / Paragon / Normal / 3000BC
v1.13
Normalised Score: 12,755
Effective Date: 1645AD
Actual Date: 1799AD

View attachment Mehmed II AD-1645 Turn 310.CivBeyondSwordSave
View attachment Mehmed II AD-1799 Turn 354.CivBeyondSwordSave

I was feeling adventurous and hence went for a 3000BC start.
Cons: no Orthodoxy, prohibiting a group of wonders that are candidates for UHV #1. No war declaration hence no extra units. Weak flip with only 1-1 longbows in Ankara and Poti (city in flipzone on Iron). Egypt was alive. Islamic holy city was in China...
Pros: Byzantines/Arabia collapsed; Istanbul was the holy city of Protestantism (founded in ~800AD!!) with shrine. On top of that I had wonders like Notre Dame and Leaning Tower in Istanbul, Sistine Chapel in Ankara.

Spoiler :

Techs: Beeline for Patronage and then Constitution. Afterwards focus on military (Chemistry, Rifling, Assembly Line). Due to conquest gold, shrine and building Wealth my science was pretty much on 100% in early game, ~50% in mid game then 100% again in late game (with all cities building Wealth). Got Chemistry in 1600AD and Assembly Line in 1763AD.

Cities: Islamic buildings / theatre + military. Afterwards Courthouse, science buildings and then Wealth in late game.

Military: Waged a multi-front war, picking on the weakest on the western front (first Poland, then 2 rounds of war with HR, then Russia), while gradually expanding in the south. Morocco had a tech lead so I left them for last and luckily they collapsed just in time, leaving 2 indie longbows in Carthage.

UHV #1: In this roll that was the trickiest. The game registered only 2 of the 3 wonders in Istanbul (perhaps shrine doesn't count?), hence I had to build 2 more, with the only possibilities being Red Fort and Taj Mahal. I had to build science in all cities to get to Constitution in time, build workshops everywhere in Istanbul and chop + whip 5 pop... And got Taj Mahal just in time. Aggressively traded techs with everyone except for the major direct enemies (Russia, HR).

Spoiler :

UHV #3: I was nervous about this one, hence focused on getting 4+ GAs. However due to building culture buildings and having Sistine Chapel I actually never had to create Great Work, hence used them for Golden Ages later. I never even had to build culture / turn on the slider, and was ahead of Europe quite early in the game (my guess by ~1550AD).

UHV #2: Due to the painful requirement of having to control each "UHV tile" around Black Sea I had to declare war on Russia and get Kiev and Rostov. These are Foreign Core cities hence stability can become an issue. To counter just started a well timed GoldenAge with GPs; building up Core cities to maximum population also helps.
I timed the conquest of Kiev, Rostov and Carthage all in 1645AD, achieving a virtual UHV victory at the end of the turn.

Spoiler :

Late game had no surprises, with occasional miserable war declarations by HR/Russia, but at that point I had a military / tech lead and they didn't even bother to attack.

 

[Tigranes]

How did China got to Islam the first with all the discouragement? Can it be just Paragon related ?

Notice ales_'s absence for an unusually long time! OP was not updated for 1 month now

 

[ales_]

I'm here, I was very occupied because of exams, now I have holidays, I think I should have some time for this. And in the previous thread I was absent for much longer.

 

[ales_]

Nevermind.

 

[Andrrew]

How did China got to Islam the first with all the discouragement? Can it be just Paragon related ?

Not sure how it is on other difficulties, but on 3000BC Paragon someone tends to beat Arabia. One time it was China (200AD), while in another roll it was Ethiopia.. (300AD)

 

[Andrrew]

Poland / Paragon / Normal / 600AD
v1.13
Normalised Score: 7,601
Actual Date: 1540AD

View attachment Sobieski AD-1540 Turn 289.CivBeyondSwordSave

I think this beats the v1.12 record in terms of finish date. Bit lower score as I didn't settle around, just captured Kiew and Budapest. Also, beelined to Music first and then to Liberalism.

Pacifist game with HR collapsed hence had a bit more space for Krakow / Budapest which helped. Also Black Death did not reach Europe which is a ~50/50 chance I guess.

Only bulbed one Scientist into Education, then I got 2 Priests.. Anyways, did not go crazy on micromanaging this time; both score and finish date could be improved.

 

[Publicola]

Civilization: Poland
Victory Type: Historical
Scenario: 600 AD
Version: 1.13 (no Git)
Score (normalized): 7530, Ivan the Terrible
Difficulty: Regent
Gamespeed: Normal
Victory Date: t80, 1400 AD
Game Save: View attachment Sobieski (Publicola) AD-1400 Turn 261 -earliest.CivBeyondSwordSave

Spoiler :

With all the back-and-forth above over the Poland UHV, I decided to try my hand at it. My starting position was amazingly lucky. I'm pretty sure the Russians had tried to attack Kiev the turn before -- they failed, but they'd wounded the city's sole defending longbowman so much that I could take the city without casualties by the end of the third turn. The same was true for Rome as well -- attacks by either France or Germany had lured the city's longbowmen out of the gates, allowing me to finish them off with ease and leaving the city defended only by catapults. Buda's defenders, meanwhile, (a swordsman and axeman) were no match for my crossbowmen, so by the end of the 10th turn or so I was firmly in control of the entire territory I needed to win.

I planted my first city at Krakow, and sent my second up to Riga (though foolishly I didn't settle next to the cow, and my start was otherwise so absurdly lucky I didn't want to risk it with a restart). I sent my starting workers to develop the cow, then split them up -- one to do Kiev's pig, one for Krakow's wheat, and the last for Kiev's deer. I also got two workers from Rome, who I moved into position to develop the other cities. Unlike those before me, it wasn't Kiev that proved most challenging -- partly because Riga couldn't grab the cow, it had the hardest time building the infrastructure (Sejmiks et al) to keep growing. Still, I reached 12 population in all cities in plenty of time.

One other thing that helped was changing my civics at the beginning to 'Absolutism' and 'Mercenaries' -- Krakow with +40% production is a beast, and switching out of 'Levy Armies' enabled it to build troops for happiness without stalling its own growth.

My tech path was to start with Philosophy and head straight for Liberalism. I built a library in Rome (finished 3 turns after it recovered from anarchy), then ignored the city's growth so I could plow everything into getting a Great Scientist. Once I got Philosophy, I switched to 'Scholasticism' in hopes of grabbing a second one. I succeeded; my first popped Education, giving me an early start on Liberalism, while my second scientist popped Printing Press. The next turn, I discovered Liberalism, which was used to pop Music, enabling my final push to build Cathedrals. It was only at this point that I chopped a few forests, to accelerate their construction. Along the way I also managed to trade for Compass, Guilds and (on my last turn before UHV) Engineering.

While I waited for techs and Great People, my other big push involved conquest! By the time I seized Rome, it was about time for the Seljuk invasion. Now, Seljuk stacks of doom are terrifying, but you can ambush them pretty effectively as long as you hide in Constantinople or another city, leaving the Byzantine defenders to mop up the damage. The real advantage of the Seljuks is that they conquer quickly but leave their new cities mostly undefended until the longbowmen can get there. This was actually an easy exploit for diplomatic goodwill -- sweep in, take the undefended city, and instead of liberating it back to the Byzantines or Arabs, gift it to one of the other European powers and they'll like you enough that you won't have to worry about a war on the home front (just avoid anyone who is "Worst Enemy of").

Even better, when the Seljuks swept back to recapture Baghdad, my Knight was powerful enough (promoted with a Great General) that the Seljuks were too weak to hold it, so I was able to hold onto Baghdad. I did the same for Damascus, though I gifted that to France so I could use it as a refuge while attacking my real target: Jerusalem. Let's put it this way: Catholic shrine + Temple of Solomon = big , big enough to fund my research at a full 100% for the duration of the game. My GG-led Knight was powerful enough to go toe-to-toe for a few roundswith the fully-fortified Arab longbowmen, but the heroics turned out to be unnecessary; the Seljuk/Polish conquest of their core left them too weak to survive, so they collapsed and I rampaged through the independent states left in their wake. That let me to pick up Jerusalem, Alexandria, and Cairo.

Spoiler :

I probably could have boosted my score a bit with a few decisions -- I was one turn away from conquering Mecca with its shrine, but a bigger change would have been to use Liberalism to 'pop' Optics, build a Caravel, and get the conqueror events for the New World cities and population points. Or just give myself a few extra turns to build wonders like Sistine Chapel or Leaning Tower. But I'd decided early on to treat this game as a speed-run and go for the earliest possible victory.