DoC Domination Challenge

[The Diocletian]

Not as good as blizzrd or Jusos. I'll shadow your game.

EDIT: What version is it? I CtD'ed trying to run your save.

Anyways, since I can't run your save.
Don't delay Liberalism. 1600+ Liberalism is very late and you run the risk of having an opposing civ beat you to it.
Set Espionage to Vikings or China, they usually go for Military Tradition early, and you should (barring a few circumstances), not tech it yourself.
Capitulating Russia should be a vassal priority. Get them while they're weak, then feed them Settlers.
Turtling till Tanks is a good idea; also make sure you have many Settlers and escorts available in spots where you'll plan to claim land.
Don't settle them until you're around 18-20% of the land limit, then pump culture.

1.11, sorry. Are you on the SVN?

By waiting for Liberalism till the last moment, I meant that I fully intend to let someone else have it. The only civ with Education is China, who is discouraged from teching Liberalism anyways.

Already teched Mil Trad.

I would go and capitulate Russia, but they're kinda... dead. Mongols basically crippled them, and I'd wager any attempt to capitulate them would just have resulted in them collapsing.

Tachy, Turkey has the Ukraine and most of Ante-Ural region, except Moscow.

Perhaps some visual aids will help:

Relations screen:

Spoiler :

Tech screen:

Spoiler :

My empire, 12 cities total:

Spoiler :

The Grand "Russian" Empire:

Spoiler :

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

1.11, sorry. Are you on the SVN?

By waiting for Liberalism till the last moment, I meant that I fully intend to let someone else have it. The only civ with Education is China, who is discouraged from teching Liberalism anyways.

Already teched Mil Trad.

I would go and capitulate Russia, but they're kinda... dead. Mongols basically crippled them, and I'd wager any attempt to capitulate them would just have resulted in them collapsing.

Yes.

1) It's always a bad idea to give up Liberalism.
I wager you've gotten your mileage out of Sankore.
It's time to move on by now.

2) Utilize those Cavalries then.

3) Wait till they resurrect then.
If you can't get Russians, keep your eyes peeled for a chance to capitulate Mughals or Chinese then. They both fit a huge land requirement.
If you can wait for Prussians or Americans, they fit the bill as well.
You could always vassalize some weenies though (Aztecs, Inca, Indonesia, etc.)

 

[The Diocletian]

Alright, Liberalism it is then. Rifling looks like a good target; I have Replaceable Parts.

I'll be on the lookout for a good target. Currently, Iran is offering capitulation, and it's almost tempting, mostly because his cities aren't that good, and because I already have twelve cities.

 

[blizzrd]

Vikings

Finish Date: 1880
Score: 6996 (palendrome score!)
Settings: Monarch, Normal, 3000 BC
Vassals: Portugal, Ottomans, Dutch, Russia, Egypt
Version: Latest, as of 9-27-2013

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

I must say; Domination is much more of a slog, particularly when you have to fight respawned civs, who all spawn with an era-appropriate SoD.
I had a Mughal game that I never finished, because I hurried to update to the latest version and it broke my save game compatibility;
but I recall moving across Xinjiang at a glacial pace en route to capitulation.
Same thing with my Ottoman game when I had to deal with the Prussians in that showdowns with stacks were common.

Case in point, I looked at the statistics for my Viking game,
and it states 64 confirmed Riflemen kills.

 

[Jusos2108]

Here is a small improvement to the previous Korea game on DoC 1.11. Last game was 3000BC start, but 600AD start is definetly easier for Korea.


The Development of the World:

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Other pics:

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[Jusos2108]

Here is another one that I forgot to post.


The American Empire:

Spoiler :

Other pics:

Spoiler :

 

[The Diocletian]

Alright, need a little more assistance this time.

I reloaded to an prior save right before my invasion of Turkey and capitulated them, turned my army around and built up in Baghdad, and then crushed Iran in three turns on spawn. Rested and rebuilt my forces at the Indus River, and then proceeded to capitulate the Mughals, and assisted them in capturing all of India. Unfortunately, because I liberated all appropriate cities to my vassals, I'm in a little bit of trouble:

Where do I go from here?

 

[blizzrd]

You need Imperialism.

 

[The Diocletian]

When it says foreign cores, does it just mean all cores, or just foreign core areas? For instance, Egypt's core overlaps with mine, does it count?

 

[Manco Capac]

Where do I go from here?

Ah stability, my weak point because I understand nothing of it. And I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who can't get over 20 stability of economy section. Despite Blizzrd explaining the concept of the cyclic 3 turns check and trying to improve my economy for those particular turns, I never was able to augment to extrema like we would see occasionally from some players.

Indeed, IMP is important to help against foreign core malus.
If you can, you could get some defensive pacts, more OB (remember that shared wars allow OB even with someone that hates you) and more trades (even those 1gpt for a resource).
There's also the combo Fanatism+Autarchy that gives a lot of stability against pagan nations you're at war with.

-22 stability isn't terrible yet, though susceptible to respawn and city losses. At that point, I retreat all my units out of cities except the core ones (I'm not even sure for that one). Like, sometimes, I see crazy stuff like -80 collapsing and I'm not even collapsing yet plus not losing a city. One reason I get increasingly bothered by RFC stability concepts because as much as I want to learn, I just stall in the learning process and even with the code tagging along.

I see you have -10 for religion. Perhaps trying to make Inquisitions to get rid of non-state religions.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

It means tiles, I believe.

 

[Manco Capac]

When it says foreign cores, does it just mean all cores, or just foreign core areas? For instance, Egypt's core overlaps with mine, does it count?

IIRC, the sevopedia explains the difference between foreign cores and foreign lands and the specificities of them.

 

[The Diocletian]

It means tiles, I believe.

So I get stability for each tile that is a foreign core area, or stability regardless of whether it is foreign or not?

I see you have -10 for religion. Perhaps trying to make Inquisitions to get rid of non-state religions.

I believe that is because I have holy cities; two, to be exact. I think they cause instability. All my cities have nothing but Islam, with the exception of Shiraz, and only because it's the Zoroastrian holy city.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

Ah stability, my weak point because I understand nothing of it. And I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who can't get over 20 stability of economy section. Despite Blizzrd explaining the concept of the cyclic 3 turns check and trying to improve my economy for those particular turns, I never was able to augment to extrema like we would see occasionally from some players.

Indeed, IMP is important to help against foreign core malus.
If you can, you could get some defensive pacts, more OB (remember that shared wars allow OB even with someone that hates you) and more trades (even those 1gpt for a resource).
There's also the combo Fanatism+Autarchy that gives a lot of stability against pagan nations you're at war with.

-22 stability isn't terrible yet, though susceptible to respawn and city losses. At that point, I retreat all my units out of cities except the core ones (I'm not even sure for that one). Like, sometimes, I see crazy stuff like -80 collapsing and I'm not even collapsing yet plus not losing a city. One reason I get increasingly bothered by RFC stability concepts because as much as I want to learn, I just stall in the learning process and even with the code tagging along.

I see you have -10 for religion. Perhaps trying to make Inquisitions to get rid of non-state religions.

The v1.11 stability screen doesn't show your present Economy rating,
it only shows your current gain or loss from the three-turn cycle.
This is why I found the old stability screen more intuitive because I could see if I was making a gain from say 140 Economy score to 143 Economy score.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

So I get stability for each tile that is a foreign core area, or stability regardless of whether it is foreign or not?

There is a threshold for how many tiles you can have outside your core
and remain stable in regards to Expansion.

Foreign core (Red) tiles push that threshold a lot.
Foreign (Orange) push it as "normal".
Contested (Yellow) & Historical (Light Green) tiles push it a little.
Core (Dark Green) tiles don't push the threshold at all.

 

[The Diocletian]

^ Almost all of my land is Core, historical, or contested.

So I suppose Imperialism wouldn't help?

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

^ Almost all of my land is Core, historical, or contested.

So I suppose Imperialism wouldn't help?

The problem is, you messed up.
You're not supposed to actually capture Mughal cities and liberate them back to them.
Now you can't climb back up; it's not your conquests or occupied territories that's hurting your score, it's the fact that you liberated cities,
which puts a huge dent into your expansion if you do it while having less than 20 cities.

What I would do is reload back to the start of the war,
and focus on killing units and workers until the Mughals are willing to capitulate.
That should help you avoid your current stability woes.

 

[blizzrd]

When it says foreign cores, does it just mean all cores, or just foreign core areas? For instance, Egypt's core overlaps with mine, does it count?

It means tiles which display either Foreign Core Area when you mouse over them (i.e. outside your historical area) or Contested Area (within your historical area, but part of another civ's core area).

Egypt is part of your Core area (and theirs) and doesn't attract a stability penalty and is therefore unaffected by Imperialism.

 

[The Diocletian]

The problem is, you messed up.
You're not supposed to actually capture Mughal cities and liberate them back to them.
Now you can't climb back up; it's not your conquests or occupied territories that's hurting your score, it's the fact that you liberated cities,
which puts a huge dent into your expansion if you do it while having less than 20 cities.

What I would do is reload back to the start of the war,
and focus on killing units and workers until the Mughals are willing to capitulate.
That should help you avoid your current stability woes.

Ohhh, I get 'cha.

Will do. Can I kill units defending cities? Will that count?