ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
50 cent? Only half as good as Dollar.
Does Hip-Hop suck?
- Thread starter Strider
- Start date
SoCalian
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2003
- Messages
- 2,901
yay, another hip hop thread. I liked this one better:
http://www.net-benefits.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11873
http://www.net-benefits.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11873
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
Good heavens I find pop music to be brilliant. It took me a long time and a lot of underground music to realize it.
And Narz, if you think Crunk (made nationally popular around 2004) started the booty thing, you're about 20 years off the mark.
And Narz, if you think Crunk (made nationally popular around 2004) started the booty thing, you're about 20 years off the mark.
Rambuchan
The Funky President
It's not the electronic quality of disco that makes it the father of house, garage and other such genres. It's the 4/4 beat and the continuous stream of music afforded by two turntables and a mixer. It did indeed grow out of soul and funk and rock'n'roll, as Hygro mentioned. The tracks by Hamilton Bohannon are worth looking at here. He was perhaps the first to bring this 4/4 beat to his funk records.
And the relationship between hip-hop and disco is tangible. As mentioned, both were born in Brooklyn. The label to look at here in particular is P&P Records, which put out both early disco numbers (that sounded much like Bohannon's stuff) and early hip-hop/rap tracks. I also read an interview with Afrika Bambatta in which he spoke of the first uses of turntables in the hip-hop world. In that he was saying how they used to put on block parties with two belt driven tables. There would always be a gap between tunes and they would always have to put on a torch to check when the tune would end, which kind of spoilt the surprise of the next tune dropping. You also couldn't scratch or mix effectively with such turntables. He had to go to the disco DJs to get the low-down on mixers and direct drive turntables. They had been using such set ups for some time to achieve their unbroken stream of music. It was from those disco DJs that the early hip-hop DJs picked up their turntablism.
And the relationship between hip-hop and disco is tangible. As mentioned, both were born in Brooklyn. The label to look at here in particular is P&P Records, which put out both early disco numbers (that sounded much like Bohannon's stuff) and early hip-hop/rap tracks. I also read an interview with Afrika Bambatta in which he spoke of the first uses of turntables in the hip-hop world. In that he was saying how they used to put on block parties with two belt driven tables. There would always be a gap between tunes and they would always have to put on a torch to check when the tune would end, which kind of spoilt the surprise of the next tune dropping. You also couldn't scratch or mix effectively with such turntables. He had to go to the disco DJs to get the low-down on mixers and direct drive turntables. They had been using such set ups for some time to achieve their unbroken stream of music. It was from those disco DJs that the early hip-hop DJs picked up their turntablism.
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
Nice bit of history on the DJ stuff there, Rambuchan. I actually just read that today in a book, a real paper book. But I had forgotten about the belt drive bit and didn't know Bambaata's response to it.
Second, I was so into the irrelevent details of disco, house, etc I forgot to mention that obvious bit.
And it's not just a four-to-the-floor bass kick, but that snare/clap on beats 2 and 4 that connects those made-for-dancing genres.
Second, I was so into the irrelevent details of disco, house, etc I forgot to mention that obvious bit.
And it's not just a four-to-the-floor bass kick, but that snare/clap on beats 2 and 4 that connects those made-for-dancing genres.
Rambuchan
The Funky President
True say on the four-to-the-floor bass kick and snare/clap on beats 2 and 4.
If you're interested in these genres and more historical and academic articles on these types of music, then kindly allow me to recommend Wax Poetics magazine, in which I read that Bambaata interview. Quality rag that.
If you're interested in these genres and more historical and academic articles on these types of music, then kindly allow me to recommend Wax Poetics magazine, in which I read that Bambaata interview. Quality rag that.
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
Thanks for the link.
I have UC Berkeley's music library at my beck and call my friend, and research paper asking me to link politics and music. Since my preferred focus is rave music, believe me I'm loading myself with historical and academic content. Universities are awesome.
I have UC Berkeley's music library at my beck and call my friend, and research paper asking me to link politics and music. Since my preferred focus is rave music, believe me I'm loading myself with historical and academic content. Universities are awesome.
rkade8583
Realism Invictus Player
I hate rap for the same reason I hate a number of breeds of metal (and I'm a metalhead)
If I can't clearly hear the words or if they aren't in a sublanguage I can't understand, I don't like it.
Sublanguages I hate because they don't make sense: Rap, Hip Hop, Black Metal, and any death grunt that is unintelligable (I'd say a good 80%)
I'm not racist. I hate everyone.
As for DJs... um, a record is not an instrument... neither is a computer (and I'm a computer geek since DOS 2.1 on the Atari 800xl) They might take skill to make music with but they aren't instruments.
If I can't clearly hear the words or if they aren't in a sublanguage I can't understand, I don't like it.
Sublanguages I hate because they don't make sense: Rap, Hip Hop, Black Metal, and any death grunt that is unintelligable (I'd say a good 80%)
I'm not racist. I hate everyone.
As for DJs... um, a record is not an instrument... neither is a computer (and I'm a computer geek since DOS 2.1 on the Atari 800xl) They might take skill to make music with but they aren't instruments.
JerichoHill
Bedrock of Knowledge
There is a difference between rap and hip-hop.
Further, there is somsething out there called "socially conscious" hip-hop, which is quality. Sometimes its almost like spoken word.
Socially conscious hip-hop artists today are Common, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, the old school KRS-ONE.
DJ DangerMouse teamed with hip-hop artist CeeLo to create Gnarls Barkley.
To those who paint an entire genre of music with a broad brush simply because of what they see on MTV do a disservice, and a diss, towards the real talent that lies right at your fingertips
Further, there is somsething out there called "socially conscious" hip-hop, which is quality. Sometimes its almost like spoken word.
Socially conscious hip-hop artists today are Common, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, the old school KRS-ONE.
DJ DangerMouse teamed with hip-hop artist CeeLo to create Gnarls Barkley.
To those who paint an entire genre of music with a broad brush simply because of what they see on MTV do a disservice, and a diss, towards the real talent that lies right at your fingertips
rkade8583
Realism Invictus Player
If they speak and I can understand it, I have no problem with it.
Isn't a diss short for disservice... or disrespecting?
Isn't a diss short for disservice... or disrespecting?
Mr. Dictator
A Chain-Smoking Fox
saul williams
that is all
that is all
I feel like we're asking two different questions here.
Are we asking
a) Does Hip Hop suck as a genre? Most CFCers are unfamiliar with the music, (Metal, Punk and Classic Rock are more popular I guess), so they're going to yes. We've had a bunch of rap thread already.
b) Can the fact that record sales of Hip Hop music have fallen so far in 7 years be attributed to a lowering of the quality of the tracks? Thats a different question all together.
Are we asking
a) Does Hip Hop suck as a genre? Most CFCers are unfamiliar with the music, (Metal, Punk and Classic Rock are more popular I guess), so they're going to yes. We've had a bunch of rap thread already.
b) Can the fact that record sales of Hip Hop music have fallen so far in 7 years be attributed to a lowering of the quality of the tracks? Thats a different question all together.
Narz
keeping it real
Certainly not, the "booty thing" is surely as old as mankind itself.
That said, when every... single... friggin'... song is about "shaking that ass in the club", the beat is awful and the "singers" (usually the term very, very lightly) have no talent whatsoever I think it's safe to say that the music sucks.
At least Sir Mix Alot has lyrical ability and creativity.
Cheezy the Wiz
Socialist In A Hurry
I think this thread will be closed for lacking a potential discussion topic. 
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
Public Enemy weren't too big on the shake the booty down the club sort of lyrics. Or does that count as rap rather than hip-hop?
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
the difference between rap and hip hop depends on who you ask. Ask me and I'll say one is a hip hop broad genre that focuses on the rap, i.e. the square, the second is the broad genre which includes rap plus most modern r&b and pop, i.e. the rectangle, and capitalized Hip Hop is the culture that encompasses it all. Others will say it differently. Anyway, I think most socially conscious hip hop artists are weak in terms of making good music, and I think given that its such a mainstream genre. Furthermore, if you aren't doing something experimental or regional (bmore club, again, even though I think it blows) and aren't on MTV, you probably aren't all that good. There are exceptions, obviously, but all you mentioned had their time in the MTV calibre spotlight.
Then again, you and I probably listen to hip hop very differently. I come at it from a dance/party perspective first, interest of sound second, cleverness of rhymes third, and message last.
AlessioCerci
Prince
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2007
- Messages
- 416
Post deleted.
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
Is it bad that I think you're smart because I was thinking the same thing? You keep posting what I intend to post, only always more eloquently. Yeah, virtually every thread on hip hop is just to rag on it. This thread is discussing whether quality has lowered. Most people just want to answer the title.
Do you like to sit back and listen to hip hop or do you like to get up and feel it, move to it? If you like the latter, you'll like the club anthems a bit more. If its the former, yeah, you're right. BTW, last two year's most popular hip hop tracks in my area (just move 50 miles north). It's all club anthem music, but tell me what you think.Certainly not, the "booty thing" is surely as old as mankind itself.
That said, when every... single... friggin'... song is about "shaking that ass in the club", the beat is awful and the "singers" (usually the term very, very lightly) have no talent whatsoever I think it's safe to say that the music sucks.
At least Sir Mix Alot has lyrical ability and creativity.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...510&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...888&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...321&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
An instrument is anything you can deliberately create music on. So a record just being played is not an instrument. But a record on a turntable used in conjunction with a mixer by a turntabilist is defintetly an instrument in itself.
And while midi sequencers with software instruments aren't instruments, I would argue digital (which use computers) synthesizers and drum machines are.
