Does Law Mana need a boost?

[[to_xp]Gekko]

so, out of all the not-so-good mana types, law mana is definitely the worst. loyalty is almost useless, the summon is nothing special and valor is by far the worst lvl3 spell. do you guys think law mana needs to be buffed to be somehow on par with all the others? also suggest ideas if you have any.

I think loyalty needs some kind of boost ( I like the FF version a lot ) , Valor would be way better at lvl2 and the summon could be moved to lvl3 and get stronger, with affinity and some special abilities like valor, loyalty and maybe courage, a bonus against demon and undead and stuff.

I really like some of magister's suggestions also, like giving pit beast cannibalize and having Aureales target recon units. some of the summons are just very bland and uninteresting.

 

[Dumanios]

Yes,I do.

 

[Grey Fox]

It has one of the best passive effects.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I believe you already know my suggestion for the Law sphere
Law I: Valor
Law II: Summon Host of the Einherjar (which are the same but have Guardsman and Valor)
Law III: Unyielding Order (which Order civ's don't find as useful as those who cannot use Social Order and Basilicas would.)

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

It has one of the best passive effects.

so does enchantment, and its spells are way way better. plus you need a lot of law mana to really make a difference, and then only for huge empires. and it's not like stocking up on other mana types is worse too, with all their affinities.

 

[Breunor]

I do think law is a little weak, but the think the passive benefit is quite nice; 5% maintenance can be very important, especially for large empires that can't run city states because of war weariness issues. If you have a large empire with overseas territories, it can be pretty useful.

I disagree though in that I like Valor. I think it is clearly one of the best with very large troop sizes - if you have a Bannor crusade or a large Khazad army, my take is giving every unit the advantage of extra XP's can be far better than having, say, one strong unit summoned.

Best wishes,

Breunor

 

[Monkeyfinger]

I want to see Einherjar and Valor switched, with valor remaining as is and Einherjar getting their old stats back (10 strength, 2 move, extendolife) so they're not a functional clone of pit beasts any more.

 

[Dragoon1]

I want to see Einherjar and Valor switched, with valor remaining as is and Einherjar getting their old stats back (10 strength, 2 move, extendolife) so they're not a functional clone of pit beasts any more.

That sounds smart to me.

 

[Opera]

How's Loyalty in FF, Gekko?

 

[Jabie]

I'm pretty happy with Law Mana as it is, but I would give the Host Guardsman, Loyalty, Courage and possibly Valor as a small boost.

 

[Feyd Rautha]

Law II + Pyre of Seraphic = WIN. Law Mana does not need to be improved unless this combo is a glitch.

 

[cabbagemeister]

I'm pretty happy with Law Mana as it is, but I would give the Host Guardsman, Loyalty, Courage and possibly Valor as a small boost.

I agree with this, although Guardsman is really the only promo I think the Hosts need. The passive effect of Law makes it decent enough that Law doesn't need to be a primary war sphere to be worthwhile. A Guardsman summons would make the sphere just good enough to pursue when you're worried about assassins.

 

[Breez]

How's Loyalty in FF, Gekko?

They made ti 1 turn duration, but as long as the caster is in the stack it doesn't fade and it prevents/removes the Enraged promo.

*[edit] very next post I read

Base FfH Loyalty doesn't help to counter Enrage's AI AutoControl, in FF it does. Permanent immunity to Enrage is too much for a rank 1 spell, but if you have to keep the Adept with the lunatics, then it isn't so bad, because a wandering assassin can cause you to lose control of your units once again. And while Loyalty is applied you gain no benefit from the Enraged promotion as it is completely suspended.

I don't think we have set it up so that Loyalty blocks Domination, but it would be a worthwhile thing to do at some point I imagine.

I agree with this, although Guardsman is really the only promo I think the Hosts need. The passive effect of Law makes it decent enough that Law doesn't need to be a primary war sphere to be worthwhile. A Guardsman summons would make the sphere just good enough to pursue when you're worried about assassins.

I think either FF or FF+ just added Gaurdsman to the summoned. I love that Idea. Gives the mage a body guard.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

Law II + Pyre of Seraphic = WIN. Law Mana does not need to be improved unless this combo is a glitch.

not a glitch but a nasty exploit. probably worth of the bug thread.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

And damn useless on maps where you don't control the pyre (read: 95% of them.)

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Sacrifice_pyre has the <bCasterNoDuration>1</bCasterNoDuration> tag, so it shouldn't be possible for units wiht limited duration to use it. That summoned Einherjar can is a bug.

Personally, I think that the fire elementals it makes should have the same duration as the angel that was sacrificed. That requires adding only a newUnit.setDuration(caster.getDuration()) to the end of the PyResult.

 

[JonathanStrange]

And damn useless on maps where you don't control the pyre (read: 95% of them.)

But that one time in twenty, look out world!

But returning to the subject of Law mana: I too have always thought its effects read poorly - but then I rarely have used it. However, given the lame mana sources the Elves start with, I can say that it can be fun to make do with the "lame mana" from the Palace and find strategies that benefit from it.

 

[cypher132]

Yeah, I think Law could use a boost. The only reason I ever get a Law mana node is for the -3% maintenance cost.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

-5%. still, not so great.

 

[cypher132]

Either way, it's not that helpful unless you have around 4-5 Law nodes.