Domesticated Megafauna mini alt history development thread

It was suggested elsewhere that you should only be able to build one megafauna wonder in your nation. I am not totally convinced. I am not even convinced that you should be able to have only one in a city.

Now assuming that we did have enough units of each megafauna to fill the tree. I would expect that you would have a heavy and light version of the megafauna in your nation.
  • mammoth and deer
  • bison and deer
  • bear and deer
  • rhino and zebra
  • rhino and giraffe

Not only that but I could see cities specialising in the units other than those distinctive to your nation.

Implementing this would be done by:-
1) restricting which megafauna wonders you can build together in a city. You can still build all but not all in the one city. This gives you access to the limited (15) units.

2) at Cultural Heritage you can build two of the megafauna buildings that allow the megafauna units to be built anywhere in your nation. The two you can build is based on the above list. This gives you access to the unlimited units. It may also remove access to some resources eg horses in all your cities.​
 
I don't mind the way it is but if y'all feel the need to change things I'm not against it either. In the meantime we should probably step up the Rhinos a bit. I'm finding them a little underpowered. Another pt of strength at least and I wouldn't mind having the riders not only increased a bit but having them keep their Stampede ability (Could suck for the riders but just how much control would you have over Rhinos in battle anyhow right?) I find by the time I get to use the Stampeding Rhinos they simply aren't combat capable enough to make much use of them and I don't want to upgrade them to the riders because they'd lose the ability I like them for.

In Size Matters these guys are really quite capable of being very cool because the Stampede is the ultimate counter to splitting up your units a lot to delay the enemy from taking the position too quickly.
 
Will those wonders be changed to NW then?
No.
I don't mind the way it is but if y'all feel the need to change things I'm not against it either. In the meantime we should probably step up the Rhinos a bit. I'm finding them a little underpowered. Another pt of strength at least and I wouldn't mind having the riders not only increased a bit but having them keep their Stampede ability (Could suck for the riders but just how much control would you have over Rhinos in battle anyhow right?) I find by the time I get to use the Stampeding Rhinos they simply aren't combat capable enough to make much use of them and I don't want to upgrade them to the riders because they'd lose the ability I like them for.

In Size Matters these guys are really quite capable of being very cool because the Stampede is the ultimate counter to splitting up your units a lot to delay the enemy from taking the position too quickly.

I don't think any of the megafauna units have been have checked for valance in quite awhile.

If the rhino riders have the stamped option on they become one use which means they wont get exp from combat. Unless we make it so they have a small chance of surviving...
 
Stampede is strategic... it means the unit attacks repeatedly until EITHER dead OR there's no more units to attack. So if you use them against a weakened stack (and they do some collateral as well) that's not TOO big you can tear through the resistance without suffering the death of the unit (and nicely promote the unit in the process.)

So there's not a 'chance' of survival but rather a measured capacity for it depending on how wisely they're used.
 
DH, I think you know my opinions about this... I propose this mainly because a really advance Ai will build many of them in capital, restricting itself for others wonders without any real gain.
So another thing would be to make these wonders less attractive for AI if they dont need them.
When you have horse, having Zebra, Giraffe or Deer Trainer is a waste.
When I have Elephant and Horse, I often build only Mammoth trainer if I can.


Still about Domesticated Megafauna, what about some Tamed Raptor as scout? or Tamed Kraken? "Kraken Trainer", I will build it even if it's useless
 
Except I reckon that you should be able to choose not to have horses even if you have them running around. As I have said before, I never bother with horse, camel, llama, or elephant units if I get access to two or three of the megafauna wonders.
 
With tech tree, you can use horses and elephant before megafauna...
Actually, only mammoth can be worth if you have elephant (because wonder have good bonus and mammoth units are really powerful)
 
Well the break down of the mounted units by species are ...

- Horses = Adaptive in lots of types of units and Fast
- Camel = Good for Desert Combat and Fast
- Elephant = Stronger and Good Jungle Combat
- Llama = Can Cross Peaks.
- Mammoth = Very Strong and Good for Polar Combat
- Deer = Good Forest Combat and Fast
- Zebra = Good for Savanna Combat and Fast
- Giraffe = Good for Savanna Combat and Increased Sight Range
- Bison = Good vs other Exotic Mounts
- Rhino = ?
- Bear = ?

Perhaps we should give the Bear Riders and Knights the ability to "smell" camouflaged units like Dogs can. Bears noses are suppose to better than a dogs. What do you guys think?
 
Well the break down of the mounted units by species are ...

- Horses = Adaptive in lots of types of units and Fast
- Camel = Good for Desert Combat and Fast
- Elephant = Stronger and Good Jungle Combat
- Llama = Can Cross Peaks.
- Mammoth = Very Strong and Good for Polar Combat
- Deer = Good Forest Combat and Fast
- Zebra = Good for Savanna Combat and Fast
- Giraffe = Good for Savanna Combat and Increased Sight Range
- Bison = Good vs other Exotic Mounts
- Rhino = ?
- Bear = ?

Perhaps we should give the Bear Riders and Knights the ability to "smell" camouflaged units like Dogs can. Bears noses are suppose to better than a dogs. What do you guys think?

Well... with Combat Mod options I've either done or intend to do the following:
- Horses = Adaptive in lots of types of units and Fast

Capable of both heavy and light application - heavy is not so great with pursuit and withdrawal but are strong (and will probably have the benefit of being hard to repel and knockback under the upcoming Heart of War option) whereas the light ones are very good at pursuit and withdrawal. When you can get both defensive abilities and pursuit you have a GREAT unit for city defense against withdrawal units and some horse units have this ability.


- Camel
= Good for Desert Combat and Fast

Very good on the 'light' side (withdraw and pursuit)


- Elephant = Stronger and Good Jungle Combat

Elephants will also soon have a set of promos that will enable them to breakdown like rams if they develop the ability. On Size Matters they have a distinction of (along with mammoths) being the largest early age units, thus very strongly damaging when they hit but not so great on their chances to hit. They will have some further benefits (and potential deficiencies) coming from their size soon there as well.

At the moment they can withdraw very well if developed to do so but I plan to remove this ability from them since they've never been the fastest combatants on the field.


- Llama = Can Cross Peaks.

And aren't too bad with pursuit and withdraw on Size Matters but they are among the weaker of the mounted units despite their unusual mobility benefits over peaks.


- Mammoth = Very Strong and Good for Polar Combat

Aside from what's noted above, very similar to Elephants. Mammoths and Elephants also have some collateral damage when they attack right? I'd like to give them some promos to help them develop this further if this is the role you want them to play. (Early age tanks as it were.)


- Deer = Good Forest Combat and Fast

Strongest base early withdrawal - even battle hardened deer can be skittish creatures that can be tough to KEEP in the battle for long but makes them GREAT at wearing down opponents. They'd be perhaps the best at this get in/get out type of strategy so long as they can do some damage during their short fights.


- Zebra = Good for Savanna Combat and Fast

Not as nervous as Deer but the BEST at withdrawing when they mean to. The stripes make it very difficult to follow them as when you think you're following one you find yourself looking at another going the opposite way. They tend to befuddle those who would pursue.


- Giraffe = Good for Savanna Combat and Increased Sight Range

Very good light mounted units with a generally strong skill at getting in and out quickly and doing some damage while there. Giraffes are not pushovers in a fight - those horns can straight knock a person out.


- Bison = Good vs other Exotic Mounts

And overland very fast comparatively to many. They have the 2 movement and aren't bad for setting up as city attackers that can wait outside the range of traps until they are ready to charge in, fully healthy. They fight like a heavy mounted with a little better movement than some other heavy mounted has, such as elephants.

These units, Elephants, Mammoths and Bears are slated to eventually get access to developing the Stampede ability that the Rhino has. Giving it to them will make them rather suicidal but extraordinarily powerful at the same time. Bison would be uniquely capable of developing withdrawal along with it which makes it repeatedly harry the strongest defender one after another until they've finally been killed.


- Rhino = ?

Rhinos have the Stampede ability and at the moment they're the only unit with it and the only unit that can develop it. If made a little stronger to make them a bit more viable (and to let them represent better the kind of amazing destructive capacity these animals have in RL) they'll be given an amazingly powerful niche use throughout the early era, particularly as a powerful counter against the strategy of splitting up units to delay attack forces from taking a position.

Rhinos also cause some collateral so if one can survive the first fight and the units in the stack they're attacking can still within range of being given further collateral damage, a rhino can uniquely inflict collateral to a stack more than once when it attacks.


- Bear = ?

On Fight or Flight, Bears have been given supremacy where pursuit is concerned. They are relentless at tracking down those who have offended them and very good at overcoming any obstacles put between them and their quarry. They have better senses than dogs but don't care to send up an alert when strangers are near so they don't do as canines to point out strangers (with a bark.) But when they are after someone, just about nothing will stop them. Pursuit isn't all about speed... sometimes its about being able to overcome any strategy to 'lose' your pursuer - and bears dominate in this realm. This is why your scouts are pretty much up a creek if they hope to survive a bear attack in the wild. Burrow, they dig. Climb a tree, they push it over. Swim out into a lake they'll get you there too. Cross a river to get them to lose your scent, they're smart enough to cross the river and pick it up again. Don't bother trying to run from a bear if you've really pissed her off.

I'm not sure if they've been given these abilities or not but bears would do very well in combat in the forest (attacking bonus should at least counteract any forest defense level) and are superb at climbing hills to the point that an incline hardly slows them at all - thus they should be good at attacking on hills as well. They're also very strong swimmers and would find a river hardly hinders them at all from getting to their opponent so should not be penalized for crossing rivers.
 
With tech tree, you can use horses and elephant before megafauna...
Actually, only mammoth can be worth if you have elephant (because wonder have good bonus and mammoth units are really powerful)

I conquer early barbarian cities with 6 Bison Riders and a healer with a few trackers or hunters along to take any captives safely back home. If I am lucky I can take out 6-10 cities before I need to build replacement units.
 
Considering the Desert and Savannah bonuses, as well as the basic terrain/feature bonuses mounted units usually have, I'd like maps to sport more areas where a singular or a few terrain types are dominant. Often in non PW maps I find that only jungle/forest bonuys type units are worth going for in any numbers. Savannah I find very little of even on those maps, certainly few enough that skirting them is way too easily done for a Giraff or Zebra to be worth having for that reason.

Just a thought.

Cheers
 
It may also remove access to some resources eg horses in all your cities.

The only problem I see with this is; are you going to upgrade every Horse unit in the game too?

Am I going to get Mammoth Cavalry once I am in the Industrial Age?

And if this is true (which I think would be completely awesome, I want my Knights riding around on wooly mammoths!) then it would multiply the number of 'horse' units by how many mega-fauna units we need. I don't see this being a good use of ram.

The number of new units needed to replace every horse unit in the game with donkeys or deers... I assume would be a lot.
 
The only problem I see with this is; are you going to upgrade every Horse unit in the game too?

Am I going to get Mammoth Cavalry once I am in the Industrial Age?

And if this is true (which I think would be completely awesome, I want my Knights riding around on wooly mammoths!) then it would multiply the number of 'horse' units by how many mega-fauna units we need. I don't see this being a good use of ram.

The number of new units needed to replace every horse unit in the game with donkeys or deers... I assume would be a lot.

Not quite all. Mammoths are the tanks of the early era so they would upgrade through the siege line. Oh look they already do!:mischief::lol:

Deer only need one or two more units as they would basically be the light horse line. I don't think we separate those at the moment but they would not be as powerful as the cav equivalent.
 
I am debating in adding two giraffe units but reuse the giraffe archer animation and making them mostly equivalent to deer. The two can't be built in the same city, unless it is at 45 degrees from the equator.

FYI there are limits on where the Trainer wonders can be built based on latitude, spawn locations and the Hinting buildings.

Trainer Wonder|Latitude|Notes
Deer|45-90
Giraffe|0-45
Bear|anywhere|theoretically not Oceania as they don't spawn there but they may migrate there over land bridges.
Bison|anywhere|probably should be restricted to Northern Hemisphere because of spawns but currently requires Myth - Bull which can be built almost anywhere.
Mammoth|40-90
Rhino|anywhere|probably not the Americas or Oceania
Zebra|0-45 |theoretically limited to Africa since that is where the unit spawns. However the Zebra Hunter building is not limited by longitude.
 
I would prefer terrain related restriction.
I recently played a "Frostfell game", 70% of map was ice. But even in the middle of the frost, I wasn't able to build igloo or other frost-related buildings because of latitude...
 
Top Bottom