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Domination on Immortal/Deity - a noob's guide

I just wanted to drop by and say thank you for this guide. I have been winning pretty reliably on Emporer but struggling to make the step up to Immortal/Deity - my only wins on those difficulties were turtling Science/Cultural victories. Most other games I found myself rushed early on as I tried to build my infrastructure. I was at a loss as to how to protect myself from warmongerers, thinking that I was safest trying to be peaceful early on. Inviting an early war seemed counterintuitive. This guide made me realise that to protect myself from warmongerers, I had to become the warmongerer.

I started a new game as China, Epic speed, standard size Continents. I found a capital in what I later discover is the south-west of our continent, and shortly meeting Poland to my north. I ignore all my instincts and declare war straight away. I have gotten a few Archers out already, having stopped myself from building the usual buildings I might, and send them to support my Warrior, who is on worker-stealing duty. I steal two workers and a settler, and protect the land I want to settle for myself. I make no effort to get near their capital, just steal their civilians, maybe occasionally pillage, just being a nuisance while I get my second and third cities online.

By the time I peace out, I've got three good cities, and explored the rest of the continent. I have Spain in the South-east, America in North-east, and the Ottomans on a peninsula in the far east. Ottomans look scarily strong, but America and Spain are good friends, and I tech up, horde gold and beeline to Chu-Ko-Nos. I open Tradition, then fill out Honour. Instead of just making buildings in peacetime though, I make myself a proper army. 10 CBs, 8 melees (horsemen, swordsmen and spearmen), and a couple of catapults for good luck. Then, then turn Machinery hits, I upgrade all my CBs and declare war on Poland again. Now he annoyingly plonked a city in the middle of my empire while I wasn't paying attention, but it's cut off from his supply lines, and I simply shoot it to 0HP and let an allied city-state take it. Then I go north, my CKNs cut through his army like butter, and I take Warsaw (which houses Statue of Zeus!). By then, Spain have piled on them too and raze their last city after I shoot it to death.

Now, I have a DOF with both Spain and America, and the Ottomans are too far away to hurt. But I don't want to lose my window of opportunity with the CKNs, and I mistakenly believe that if I defensive-pact Spain and then bribe America to declare on them, I can declare on America without getting a backstab penalty. I'm wrong, but it doesn't matter, I breeze through America, wiping out their forces and taking Washington and New York (the latter was in a good spot and had a unique lux (and another in citadel-bomb range), so I kept it).

The Ottomans have crept out of their peninsula, founding one city and taking another from Spain. I bribe them to declare on Spain again, hoping they might be able to take Madrid and allow me to get that capital without having to betray my buddy, but they aren't interested so I just declare on them and take both the cities. They have their Janissiaries and XBs, which would normally scare me away, but having a proper army of CKNs makes conquering these two satellite cities child's play.

I've not peaced out yet, just farming some XP from their allied CSs. Their main empire is connected only by a two-tile land bridge, which is protected by one of these allies, so sadly I can't go much further at this point. I think my next move will be to build a navy and go conquer some cities on the other continent (where Dido has conquered the other civs there), while I build up some gold and convert the CS into my ally. But I'm in a great position - I'm level on tech with the leaders (Suleiman and Dido), I have 11 wonders (including Notre Dame, SoZ, Petra and Chichen Itza, and only one of them I built myself (Hanging Gardens, because nobody else went Tradition, plus there was a CS quest for it), nobody can threaten me on my homeland, and I've got a strong, promoted army, having only lost three units in four wars (1 CKN, a Knight, and a Scout on auto-explore). Not to count my chickens but I'm set up pretty nicely for a DomV.

Very nicely done! My Emperor game is improving, but I still can't win at Immortal and i just get run over at Deity. I'm getting closer though. One of my problems is not enough gold in the classical era to support my unit maintenance. (so I pretty much bee-line Currency and build markets when I should be building more archers) Meanwhile the AI's are building horsemen and pikes, and they out-tech me. I'll get there eventually. I like how you declared war early but didn't attack their cities, just fought a guerrilla war.
 
Very nicely done! My Emperor game is improving, but I still can't win at Immortal and i just get run over at Deity. I'm getting closer though. One of my problems is not enough gold in the classical era to support my unit maintenance. (so I pretty much bee-line Currency and build markets when I should be building more archers) Meanwhile the AI's are building horsemen and pikes, and they out-tech me. I'll get there eventually.

Yeah, I've struggled with that too. China has a get-out-of-jail free card with their Paper Makers, which allowed me to grow science and build an army both. I'm tempted to say that early game on high levels, trade routes are better sent to other civs for gold and science. Although if you're planning to war those neighbours early, maybe not.

I like how you declared war early but didn't attack their cities, just fought a guerrilla war.

It was definitely a revelation for me. I've only ever done a 'blitzkrieg' style of warfare before - wait to out-tech, then head straight to their cities. Really enjoyed this and will probably make it a staple of my early game from now on.

Update if anyone cares - I decided to capture the CS separating me from Suleiman, which let my army spill though and take his heartland. Spain hate me now for my warmongering (she's been a joint partner in every war, I've just been more successful so she's obviously jealous) so they're next on the chopping block, then it's just Dido left on the other continent (she's wiped out Morocco and taken Ethiopia's capital already). I'm the leader in tech and culture, I have the most capitals and city-states, and I've just hit my ideology (Order, for RP purposes more than anything, I'm planning to sink my policies into more Rationalism/Commerce). I don't usually do this well, even on Emporer. Bless this guide.
 
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My concern however was will you lose better religion by moving GP but with spain and grazy faith that is proly no problemo
I found outside my cap in maybe a third of my games. Only once has that habit made a difference with the beliefs that were available to me.

My Emperor game is improving, but I still can't win at Immortal and i just get run over at Deity. I'm getting closer though. One of my problems is not enough gold in the classical era to support my unit maintenance.
If you can win at Emperor pretty consistently, I think you should skip to Deity. The AI is not that much more aggressive and the gold problems are easier to manage (because Trade Routes are much more profitable). I would say that the biggest difference between Immortal and Deity is that the AI all get an extra starting settler. OTOH, that means there are more opportunities for worker poaching!
 
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nobody can threaten me on my homeland

A word of caution from past experience -- I've been in the situation of being "fat and happy" on my Continent, only to have ten frigates and five privateers appear out of nowhere in the blink of any eye, with a simultaneous declaration of war. Not pretty. Just beware :)

Nice write-up. And we are all grateful to Consentient for a huge amount of work put in to his guide and elsewhere. A major contribution to the forum.
 
Goodness...I am glad to see this thread is still going.

I'm back on the forums and would love to play some shared games again, if anyone is keen? :)
 
Yes, welcome back! Good to see you. My play is still as crap as ever -- though it's a few weeks since I played. Been too much else going on. Maybe I should take my courage in both hands and get myself thoroughly and embarrassingly beaten up in public by the AI. Perhaps I might learn what I've been doing wrong. Though I suspect what I've been doing wrong is just not having the requisite ability for the game ...
 
Hey beetle...don't think I'm ready for Deity yet. Haven't played in a looooong time. Will get there though :)
 
I think I need to re-read this guide and make some notes to remind myself of the most important points.

The theory is not that hard, though: it is the practice that is difficult. I always fall down when it comes to attacking cities. I regularly spend 20 turns (and longer) camped outside and trying not to lose units. I've never worked out how to improve on this.
 
The cities should fall in 2-3 turns, or else your unit tech is behind the curve.

A rough guide is something like this:

- City Defence 20 or less = CBs will melt it
- CIty Defence 30 or less = XBs will melt it

So you need:

The right units, at the right timing, in the right numbers, and the right positioning

I'll consider making a video about these concepts, once my tonsilitis clears up
 
Ooh -- sorry about the tonsillitis. Not something you want before Xmas. Hope it clears up soon.

Any help would be very welcome. I always seem to find cities protected by rough terrain, so moving units to within shooting range typically means getting wounded so that I have to retreat again. I will have to think harder about how to get units into position. Build roads everywhere?
 
I regularly spend 20 turns (and longer) camped outside and trying not to lose units.
How many ranged units are you bringing to the party? You need 6+, here is pretty much the worse case situation:
  1. turn 1, three archers step into range and shoot. One or two is on a hill or forest, so maybe you only get one shot on the city.
  2. turns 2/3/4, retreat the archer that took the city bombardment hit. Another archer steps in to take his place. You get two shots on the city.
  3. turn 5 you get three shots at the city if you need it, because now it is down to zero health and your horseman runs in from behind to take the city.
So that is ten hits on the city, attacking from only one side on a poor approach. Things get considerably easier once your ranged units start getting logistics and +1 range.
To make things smoother, you will want 3+ melee units screening your ranged units.
 
The archers won't get hit at all if you bring 2 melee units with 90-95% health to the party ;)
 
I'm not sure that's actually the WORST case scenario :) The one where you have a double line of hills so you get shot twice before you get in range and have to retreat before you have shot, with horsemen that come screaming out of the dark to kill you then disappear again -- I think that's my least favourite.
 
Yeah, dealing with difficult terrain can be really problematic.

In my games, sometimes it means delaying the attack until much later. Sometimes, I even do an 'aborted Domination' by using the wide empire to win by Culture or Diplomacy.

The best case scenario for horrible terrain is sending 2 or 3 workers to their lands and putting roads in every square so at the least things move quickly.
 
Yeah, dealing with difficult terrain can be really problematic.

In my games, sometimes it means delaying the attack until much later. Sometimes, I even do an 'aborted Domination' by using the wide empire to win by Culture or Diplomacy.

The best case scenario for horrible terrain is sending 2 or 3 workers to their lands and putting roads in every square so at the least things move quickly.

Welcome back!
Roads don't work inside enemy territory. But I sometimes send workers in (guarded by a pike with cover promotion) to chop forests next to cities so my ranged/siege units can hit from 2 tiles away and retreat when they have to.
 
Absolutely roads work inside enemy territory ;)
 
Welcome back!
Roads don't work inside enemy territory. But I sometimes send workers in (guarded by a pike with cover promotion) to chop forests next to cities so my ranged/siege units can hit from 2 tiles away and retreat when they have to.
Right, they work as roads. What can happen is, say you have a road connecting two of your cities, and then a Civ (be it friend, foe, or neutral) has a city that expands OVER your road, that will break your city-connection. Pretty sure open borders will restore the connection (but not certain). @zxcvbob, bet that's what you were thinking about?
 
Right, they work as roads. What can happen is, say you have a road connecting two of your cities, and then a Civ (be it friend, foe, or neutral) has a city that expands OVER your road, that will break your city-connection. Pretty sure open borders will restore the connection (but not certain). @zxcvbob, bet that's what you were thinking about?

No, I don't think you can use roads inside enemy territory. Well, you can, but they don't speed up your movement. It has been a long time since I tried it, so I could be wrong.
 
Roads do not work inside enemy territory, not sure why that is being debated.
…The game I want criticized is a Spain game on Pangea. Standard speed and standard size. This map got the most out of Spain's unique ability, 1500 free gold before turn 30 which I spent on workers, archers and a monument in my first expo. This fast start meant I took my first capital on turn 79 IIRC. My next capital was taken between 110-120, so too slow I guess. On route to the third capital is when I was considering quitting. The terrain was very difficult and I lost about 8 units from silly mistakes. I was completely bogged down and didn't take the third capital until after 170. Whoever loads the save can view the map and watch my empire expand, you can see for yourself the turn in which I took cities and the route in which I took them…
Even with this nice map (thanks @KingVercingetorix) I could not win by DOM before someone launched. Of course, the closest neighbor built the Great Wall, but that hardly excuses my not being able to win by T300.

I actually enjoy the game getting to Ideologies, since Clauswitz is a hoot, but I think for me to learn something I would need some generous soul to post their model game saves like every 25 turns.
 
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