Domination on Immortal/Deity - a noob's guide

raider980

King
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
Messages
613
I took a look at your save file and had a little play. I'll talk you through my first 80 turns! I'll make it a spoiler in case someone wants to play without map knowledge!

Thanks! Not sure why I didn't see this earlier. I'm going to try and replay it building my 3 cities earlier and buiilding nothing but CB.

Spoiler :
I planned on going for Mongolia first. They always seem to be easy to take out earlier rather than later.
 

beetle

Deity
GOTM Staff
Joined
Mar 19, 2004
Messages
6,314
Location
Frederick, MD
literally every time i go to war and take a city or two (not even capitals) I find myself in a world war against at least 2 other civs - obviously impossible to win because their attack with pikemen in turn 100 and I am in the time when CBs are outdated but XBs are not in yet ... what am I doing wrong?
Please consider sharing screen shots or save files. Or try your hand with the games posted in this thread.

I think you need to work on your diplomacy. Your comment about “not even capitals”, tells me that you do not really understand the warmonger hate mechanics. The other AI hate you for taking cities from civs with few cities. High or low pop is not a factor, nor is the city being a capital or not. You are getting cities early, so that is great, but maybe be more particular? Taking a city or two from an AI that only has three cities, if you do nothing else, pretty much means all the other civs will hate for an era.

Agreed, CBs vs Pikes is a loosing proposition. Reload to right before you take a second city and see if you cannot get the AIs that DOW you to DOW each other, or even the civ that you are fighting. You don’t really want them helping you, but if they agree to DOW your victim, then they hate you much less. Also, trades and trade routes help tremendously with getting the other AI to overlook your early warmongering.
 
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anykey!

Chieftain
Joined
Jun 11, 2018
Messages
1
#consentient, many thanks for composing this guide!!!
This approach totally works and helped me to win twice in the row while playing on Immortal (Zulu, then Germany, everyone on same landmass, standard size), which was very unlikely for me before.
No religion, no title micromanagement, no bs building. Just get 2 or 3 cities, build army, then pick most aggressive neighbor, steamroll him, then repeat this to the rest of opponents. Fun :)
 

mariorio

Chieftain
Joined
Jul 26, 2018
Messages
11
Hello, I wonder if this guide is still up to date? Also the images in the guide are "no longer available". Is there some way to get them uploaded again?
 

beetle

Deity
GOTM Staff
Joined
Mar 19, 2004
Messages
6,314
Location
Frederick, MD
I am sorry to say @consentient has not been active in the forums for a few years, and it looks to me like his last login was a couple years ago.

Images were hosted on a service that has since gone behind a paywall, so yeah, the are probably gone for good. This guide is still up to date though, since Civ5 has had not changes in all this time.

Also be sure to check out Consentient’s tier list!
 

mariorio

Chieftain
Joined
Jul 26, 2018
Messages
11
I am sorry to say @consentient has not been active in the forums for a few years, and it looks to me like his last login was a couple years ago.

Images were hosted on a service that has since gone behind a paywall, so yeah, the are probably gone for good. This guide is still up to date though, since Civ5 has had not changes in all this time.

Also be sure to check out Consentient’s tier list!

Thank you!
 

consentient

Domination!
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
3,335
Hello there. After a very long break I am returning to this forum. I have a friend I just introduced to the game and I am showing them the ropes. I really need to cool it as I now have over 5000 hours on Civ 5, and am not sure there is a whole lot else I could do with it, really. But I'm happy to answer any questions about Domination strategies or my Tier List. :)

Objectively, it pretty much has to be the case that SSM or MSS beats SMS. So SMS is for people who cannot figure out how they want to play! /QUOTE]

I remember arguing with someone (maybe you) about this before.

Scout must be first because it vastly increases your chance of a Culture ruin, which can really help mind up about Liberty v Honor vs Tradition. You're gonna want to Scout to know:

- how much space you have
- where your nearest neighbour is

etc.

So given that you HAVE to build a Scout first, you will know by Turn 5 (assuming a T0 Settle) whether you will go Monument 2nd or not.

If Warrior has hit a Culture ruin or found a victim, then you will go SS for sure, as you may want the 2nd scout to assist with Worker steal, and in any case, since you have the culture, you need the M less.

But most often you will NOT have the Culture ruin, so you build the Monument to hurry along the 1st policy, whatever tree you take. The days of not building a Monument in the Capital for a Tradition run are long gone.

Since I got back into the game a little, I've been tooling around with SSSM or even SSS Sh M and honestly Triple Scout starts are very strong. It means the chances of a Scarcher are very high, and a Culture ruin is almost guaranteed.

I still think the vanilla game should give 1 Settler, 1 Warrior, 1 Scout and 1 Worker to be just all round better.

For those CDG games where it was like this, I would always go SMS, ending with 3 scouts.
 

mbbcam

Prince
Joined
Apr 7, 2012
Messages
580
Location
Cambridge
Yes, very definitely welcome back, @consentient ! I have thought about you often. The last couple of years have been hectic, and most things I thought I would be doing have gone out of the window. No doubt many others are in the same position.

And I still can't capture cities in much less than 30 turns, no matter what weapons I use!
 

Grendeldef

Trancerelic & coffeeholic
Joined
Apr 30, 2012
Messages
2,438
Location
Finland
I really need to cool it as I now have over 5000 hours on Civ 5, and am not sure there is a whole lot else I could do with it, really.

That's not too bad for a novice - I have 9279.8h ;) Obviously I'd have a lot more if I had started playing the legit version from scratch but I didn't appreciate the mandatory Steam/online system in a single player game. On the other hand I'd be lying if I'd claim those to be all active gaming hours.

Welcome back @consentient !!!

I'll second that and extend that to all whom have made a(/several) comeback(s)
 

Khilak

Chieftain
Joined
Sep 27, 2007
Messages
67
Welcome back @consentient ! I read your guides in 2018 and they helped me to improve my gameplay. I am considering going back to CIV 5 and would greatly thank your aid and counsel. Cheers from Spain!
 

zxcvbob

Emperor
Joined
May 18, 2015
Messages
1,608
Location
SE Minnesota
Welcome back Mr. C! I just started the Greece game posted in #71. Trying to up my domination game. My nature is to build too many buildings :blush: Even good buildings have an opportunity cost.

I declared war on Morocco a little before I was ready because I wanted to kill a warrior who was escorting a settler towards my capital (and steal the settler, of course) but I think it's going okay. I've only lost 2 units; a non-promoted archer that I sacrificed to move a catapult into place, and the hoplite that captured Rabat died when the city was recaptured, then I took it back and held it. I don't have CC's yet that could have captured the city and then retreated, they are next on my build list. He has an unescorted settler trying to escape; not sure if I should run it down with a scout or let it settle so he has one awful city left when I take the capital. (so everyone doesn't hate me yet, and because even a hostile Morocco is a good place to sent caravans) My CB's (a bunch of them) are about to siege Marrakech.

I think The Celts might be next; Spain has asked me several times for a joint war with them. Then either Liz or Izzy, depending on how the Celtic war goes.
 

zxcvbob

Emperor
Joined
May 18, 2015
Messages
1,608
Location
SE Minnesota
Welcome back Mr. C! I just started the Greece game posted in #71. Trying to up my domination game. My nature is to build too many buildings :blush: Even good buildings have an opportunity cost.

I declared war on Morocco a little before I was ready because I wanted to kill a warrior who was escorting a settler towards my capital (and steal the settler, of course) but I think it's going okay. I've only lost 2 units; a non-promoted archer that I sacrificed to move a catapult into place, and the hoplite that captured Rabat died when the city was recaptured, then I took it back and held it. I don't have CC's yet that could have captured the city and then retreated, they are next on my build list. He has an unescorted settler trying to escape; not sure if I should run it down with a scout or let it settle so he has one awful city left when I take the capital. (so everyone doesn't hate me yet, and because even a hostile Morocco is a good place to sent caravans) My CB's (a bunch of them) are about to siege Marrakech.

I think The Celts might be next; Spain has asked me several times for a joint war with them. Then either Liz or Izzy, depending on how the Celtic war goes.

I quit on turn 127. I let that Moroccan settler get away, but a barbarian grabbed him (later, I hunted down the barb camp and took it for another worker) So when I captured Marrakech that was the end of Morocco. Not long after that Boudicca declared war on me. She captured one of my cities and I captured it back (lost my monument and library), then I pushed on to Edinburgh and captured it but took heavy losses. The Celts still have a city or two somewhere. Then almost everybody declare war on me at once; I lost too many units in the Battle of Edinburgh and my remaining troops are in no condition to fight for a turn or two. I could probably defend against one AI but not 3 or 4 on different fronts.

Time to try again. I wonder if my mistake was something seemingly minor like settling Athens on the cotton instead of a hill? I'll need to go back and count the starting hammers -- it looked like enough. (my expos were both settled on hills) I still did better than I usually do at deity; perhaps I shouldn't have given up. Is there a LP of this game?
 

cultured barbarian

Chieftain
Joined
Oct 29, 2019
Messages
4
Maybe i need to git gud, but it feels very luck based on deity, there are so many things that can ruin your game. like starting next to shaka or assyria.

if your neighbour is not neglecting military, and he got the great wall, so you can beat him eventually but it would take so long that you are way behind on science.

i've also had games where im the first to get to flight, had 6-8 great war bombers 20 turns before anyone else, but since the AI's units have ridiculously promotions, i can barely kill 2 riflemen every turn with 6-8 great war bombers

once you get to stealth bomber and xcom it's way easier, but it really doesn't feel like a domination game any more.
 

billby

Chieftain
Joined
May 21, 2008
Messages
33
Location
Auckland
Hello there. After a very long break I am returning to this forum. I have a friend I just introduced to the game and I am showing them the ropes. I really need to cool it as I now have over 5000 hours on Civ 5, and am not sure there is a whole lot else I could do with it, really. But I'm happy to answer any questions about Domination strategies or my Tier List. :)
Not sure if you still look at this, but the images in the first few posts are broken. Would it be possible to fix them?
 

sprintonwater

Chieftain
Joined
Apr 28, 2013
Messages
39
Location
Australia
Hello there. After a very long break I am returning to this forum. I have a friend I just introduced to the game and I am showing them the ropes. I really need to cool it as I now have over 5000 hours on Civ 5, and am not sure there is a whole lot else I could do with it, really. But I'm happy to answer any questions about Domination strategies or my Tier List. :)
These are fantastic guides!! After quite a few years away from the game I’m returning to CIV V, and like yourself learnt a lot from the likes of Maddjin back in the day. Watching his ‘Beyond The Monument’ series (rip) turned me into a very capable immortal player who could win at deity given a strong civ/start etc. These guides have really helped me shake of the rust, remember some of the things I’ve forgotten, plus learn quite a few new things and get back in the saddle so to speak.

A few quick points:
- SSM or SSSM is something I never considered, and wow sooo much stronger than I could have thought possible especially playing Pangea and larger map sizes as I like to do (Huge, Pangea/Continents is my jam!)

- Stop building so many buildings, damn such a simple and underrated tip! The opportunity cost of overbuilding can’t be stressed enough.

- Never had been able to make an Honor start work, and certainly never thought it could be strong. You’ve changed my mind!

- I always knew it, but actually can’t be emphasized enough, ranged units in Civ V and just insanely strong. When in doubt build a CB 😂

Thanks for helping a returning player find his feet again. Jumped back in again at immortal, feel I should be able to finally consider myself a deity player once I’m back in the swing of it 😊
 

raider980

King
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
Messages
613
Jumped back in again at immortal, feel I should be able to finally consider myself a deity player once I’m back in the swing of it 😊
Consentien's guide is definitely awesome. It's helped me get better for sure - however I'm still pretty bad at actual combat lol. Since you're just getting back in it you might want to check out the Game of the Month series - the one that just started this month is Immortal (Cultural not Domination but there is fighting to be had).
 

sprintonwater

Chieftain
Joined
Apr 28, 2013
Messages
39
Location
Australia
Consentien's guide is definitely awesome. It's helped me get better for sure - however I'm still pretty bad at actual combat lol. Since you're just getting back in it you might want to check out the Game of the Month series - the one that just started this month is Immortal (Cultural not Domination but there is fighting to be had).
Oh nice thanks man. Where do I find game of the month? Sorry had a little dig around, wasn’t immediately obvious to me… 😕
 
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