Dragon Age.

[Heretic_Cata]

Are you guys serious ? Loghain is one of the best characters in the game:

Spoiler :

Did you not pay attention to the motive he kept repeating on and on about why he left Ostagar ?

He left it because King Calian didn't care about their past animosities with the orlesians and negotiated with them and even wanted to bring Orlesians knights to help fight the blight. Remember that Logain was obsessed with the orlesians since the last war and would not have orlesians come through ferelden under any circumstances, not even to save it from the blight. I remember a discussion between him and the queen(I THINK) where the he was asked if having orlesians help is worse than being overran by the blight - he responded RAWWWWR he would not have orlesians here because after they beat the blight they will not leave the capital, profiting from a severly weakened empire.

ALSO he thought calian was an unworthy king who likes to "play war" only in order gain some glory. So he thought him unfit to rule the empire. And he thought the only way to save it was if he himself ruled, because only HE knew how Calian's father(i.e. Loghain's closest friend) reigned.

For some reason people see Loghain as the EVIL guy. There is absolutley nothing evil about him. In his own words, he always did what he thought best for the empire. He is not evil, he is just mad. Not mad about the power of being "king", but mad because he sees the country which HE and calian's father saved delivered into orlesian hands. Remember, Loghain was just a peasant who lost everything to the orlesians. (iirc he said something about being forced to watch his father getting killed and his mother or daughter(?) raped in front of him by orlesians)

I think you people played too many fantasy games where the bad guy is "teh evil" with some kind of huge "evil" masterplan. I'm tired of such cliches. I'm glad they made him only human.

 

[LightSpectra]

Response to the above:

Spoiler :

That still doesn't make sense to me. Had they won at Ostagar, there'd be no reason to summon the Orlesians whatsoever. By withdrawing, Loghain only increased their potential necessity. I'd rather have a malicious villain whose plan makes sense than a morally ambiguous villain that's completely bonkers.

I gathered that Loghain's motive for retreating was that he legitimately thought the battle was already lost, as he plainly said. I can buy that. I don't think he purposefully let the Darkspawn win in order to become regent though; that plan is rather conspicuous. The Orlesians would be in a better position to re-invade if Ferelden is torn apart in civil war and demons.

 

[PhroX]

Spoiler :

Loghain saw the Grey Wardens in general as agents of the Orlesians. and he believed they had an unsafe influence on the king, who could no longer be trusted to best serve the interests of the country he loved. Therefore abandoning the GWs and Cailan to die was the best way to solve the problem, particularly when he thought that the darkspawn would be easy enough to deal with once his control of Felderen was secure - and even if it was a blight, a Felderen united behind him would be able to stop it (he might've been wrong, but he believed it).

 

[Heretic_Cata]

Response to the above:

Spoiler :

That still doesn't make sense to me. Had they won at Ostagar, there'd be no reason to summon the Orlesians whatsoever. By withdrawing, Loghain only increased their potential necessity. I'd rather have a malicious villain whose plan makes sense than a morally ambiguous villain that's completely bonkers.

I gathered that Loghain's motive for retreating was that he legitimately thought the battle was already lost, as he plainly said. I can buy that. I don't think he purposefully let the Darkspawn win in order to become regent though; that plan is rather conspicuous. The Orlesians would be in a better position to re-invade if Ferelden is torn apart in civil war and demons.

Damnit why didn't you people ask these things 2 months ago when i was playing this.

Spoiler :

Calian said something about getting the orlesians even before the battle of ostagar. What i can't remember is what he said about them.

Google isn't clear on that either: http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/King_Cailan_Theirin
Acording to that "the king is so determined to emerge victorious that he invites Orlesian soldiers,"

I'd rather have a moraly ambigous villain because it reminds me of the real world villans.

 

[MobBoss]

Finally finished the game with my human noble warrior. 66 1/2 hours. About half the achievements unlocked. 92% of the game world explored, but only about half the content.

Going to kick up the difficulty a notch to hard, and play again making the different choices that were obvious.

Toon options: elf mage, elf rogue (ranger spec), dwarf rogue. Any suggestions?

 

[LDiCesare]

Finally finished the game with my human noble warrior. 66 1/2 hours. About half the achievements unlocked. 92% of the game world explored, but only about half the content.

Going to kick up the difficulty a notch to hard, and play again making the different choices that were obvious.

Toon options: elf mage, elf rogue (ranger spec), dwarf rogue. Any suggestions?

I tried a dwarf rogue and got bored of dying so often. But then I try to actually sneak and maneuver during battle, and that doesn't really work for me as characters run past/trhough each other way too easily.
Elven mage is way easier. I turned arcane warrior, and that's really good for tanking. Then again, I hadnt picked up Shale before, so that may be helping too, but mages, even early on, are way more powerful than other characters.

Regarding the plot:

Spoiler :

It seems to me that Loghain believes Cailan's unfit to reign. He is said to have many quarrels with him, and he strongly disaproves of asking the help of Orlais. He sees Cailan's decision to call Orlesian reinforcements as a betrayal and something that will bring the fall of Ferelden and all that Loghain fought for all his life.
The battle of Ostagar isn't the first one fought against the darkspawn, and Loghain believes there will be others, Cailan will call Orlais to help, and Orlais will take over Ferelden. Therefore, he gets the unworthy king killed in order to save his country.

I must say the game gets more interesting once you finish it. The start is really too linear and not taking Leliana with me on the first run was a bad move since she's the character with whom you can talk that gives the most background information about the world at large.

 

[Yeekim]

About the plot:

Spoiler :

I was quite disappointed you couldn't eventually take Loghain's side. Cailan did leave the impression of a horrible ruler. And what kind of RPG is this where your decisions are so limited?

 

[Captain2]

Spoiler :

Logain tried to have you killed afterwards without even talking it over with you to see where you stand, technically getting yourself killed is siding with him

 

[Riffraff]

@Yeekim: you can, at the landsmeet!

 

[Harbringer]

@Yeekim: you can, at the landsmeet!

But not really

 

[LDiCesare]

About the plot:

Spoiler :

I was quite disappointed you couldn't eventually take Loghain's side. Cailan did leave the impression of a horrible ruler. And what kind of RPG is this where your decisions are so limited?

Spoiler :

I tend to agree. But then you're his scapegoat. He pretends Grey Wardens (as in 'not Fereldans') killed the king. If you side with him, since in his version of the battle you're a traitor, it makes sense for him to just kill you.
I belive his motivation is to remove all non-Ferelden influence in the country, and that includes Grey Wardens, since some of them are foreigners. So, like it or not, you're his enemy and he'll kill you if given the opportunity.

 

[Harbringer]

Is there an extra easy mod for this game or something? I have it on easy already and im still dying, I don't like games that are difficult, and this game doesn't make microing fun so I don't want to go that route either.

 

[Maniacal]

I havn't had to micro that much, just make sure you use the tactics slots for your party member's abilities, and use your kill points wisely (warriors need mostly strength, and a little bit of dexterity and consti-whateveritis for example).

I have to wonder if it is easier on the x-box 360 than PC< cause my roommate died ONCE as an elven city rogue, but as a human rogue I die rather often.

 

[Rub'Rum]

Maybe you're trying to go in one of the places that's tailored for higher levels too. There is an "optimal order" in which areas should be tackled in this game. While it's not mandatory, it can be harder to do it in a really awkward order. I only found out about this this week-end and I realize now that I've done a few things backward, which explained why the game had been really hard at some point and really easy at some other point.

 

[PhroX]

I have to wonder if it is easier on the x-box 360 than PC< cause my roommate died ONCE as an elven city rogue, but as a human rogue I die rather often.

Yes, it is. Various difficulty related things (can't remember the exact details) are set lower on consoles.

 

[Maniacal]

Maybe you're trying to go in one of the places that's tailored for higher levels too. There is an "optimal order" in which areas should be tackled in this game. While it's not mandatory, it can be harder to do it in a really awkward order. I only found out about this this week-end and I realize now that I've done a few things backward, which explained why the game had been really hard at some point and really easy at some other point.

Not really no, I went to Redcliffe after Lothering but Orzammar is really the only truly difficult one. Or it should be.

Yes, it is. Various difficulty related things (can't remember the exact details) are set lower on consoles.

Well that explains it, now my roommate can stop being a donkey's buttocks and lording his "I play WoW and know how to manage my talent trees and you don't" crap.

Also i think the difficulties are somewhat broken on mine, unless you have to reload your game for it to take an effect. I switched to Nightmare for a few minutes at one point and did not notice a difference from easy.

 

[PhroX]

Not really no, I went to Redcliffe after Lothering but Orzammar is really the only truly difficult one. Or it should be.

I wouldn't really say any of them are significantly harder than the others. Mage Tower should probably be done before Redcliffe, but otherwise, it really doesn't matter.

 

[Rub'Rum]

Mage tower and Redcliffe are the easiest ones. At least after you actually have a choice of where you go.

 

[LightSpectra]

I thought Orzammar was easy except for the final battle. It was really repetitive and boring though, by far the least interesting of the main quests.

 

[Harbringer]

I havn't had to micro that much, just make sure you use the tactics slots for your party member's abilities, and use your kill points wisely (warriors need mostly strength, and a little bit of dexterity and consti-whateveritis for example).

I have to wonder if it is easier on the x-box 360 than PC< cause my roommate died ONCE as an elven city rogue, but as a human rogue I die rather often.

Ehh ya...I was just hoping for a mod, I don't like having to deal with tactics slots junk or plan my characters in slightest. The leveling and stats and skills and such in this game just kinda....don't do it for me. I usually love that stuff but this game makes it feel like an excel spreadsheet, making me want to completely just avoid difficulty and just enjoy the sights and sounds instead of remapping quick-load to the right mouse button.

And I did Redcliffe first, and then the mages tower, and am now doing business in Denerim. I already did all of the Urn stuff to BTW. But even in the very beginning of the game, it was just to frustrating on normal to constantly have to reload, so I almost immediately jacked it down to easy right after the korcari wilds.