Dune Wars Unique Units

[davidlallen]

Deviator fumes influence will be shown on culture map, green squares inside enemy land, which he cant work, because people from that square love Ordos now

That is an interesting idea. A while ago, Ahriman had suggested the same thing for Bene Gesserit Reverend Mothers; they should be able to influence the population in a plot to join them. He suggested using some mechanics from influence-driven war. I haven't studied this very closely, but so far I don't see any way to actually implement it. It is on the list for "someday, if I can figure it out.

Also for Ix, since they are machine-obsessed underground dwellers, I thought it'd be cool to have cybernetically-enchanced melee mutants as a replacement of swordsmen.

Ix has four unique mech units, the walker, avatar, cymek, and spider. I think they are pretty cool cybernetic units. Have you tried them out yet?

 

[Deon]

I tried these models but not in this mod. I think I saw that they have nice animations but I may check again .

Anyway, the more distinct nations are, the more interest and replayability is in the mod. I've just watched "Pandorum" and those guys + some cybernetical enchancements could make a good Ix unit .

 

[Slvynn]

as for Deviator - yep some confusing (stunning will do too (stack effect) (some chance to confuse units in enemy stack - with promoteable "toxic warfare" that adds % to cause the effect)- efect similar to charm + entangle from ffh combined?

Though culture affecting unit - that should be cool, if not Deviator then Mothers perhaps... but thats very interesting unit mechanics to leave it aside...

 

[Slvynn]

Atrides Orni (Omni?) Thopters - UU, can bombard defences, cause small collaterial damage. replacing falcon thopter
here is a vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl1ieJqg6uA&feature=related

 

[Ahriman]

Just to clarify some potential confusion: *every* faction has ornithopters. Thats what the entire thopter class represents. Atreides should arguably have some better thopter/hornet UUs, but its not like ornithopters are unique to them. They're basically Dune-universe helicopters, everyone has them on every planet.

I don't think that putting bombardment on thopters is a good idea; its better to leave that for the Hornet class (aircraft). 1-2 first strikes maybe.

 

[Slvynn]

Yeah sure, simple we have not "Ornithopter" unit, so we can modify it into Omnithopter (Omnipotence) into being atreides UU, if not bombardment, hten 1-2 1st strikes and may be +1 str.
video is for unit model.

 

[keldath]

aye, i agree with ahriman,

the soul purpose of the hornets is to be able to bombard, the thopters are helicopter type.


though - i think the orni thopter should be a uu to the atriedis, yeah sure - orni is the thopters - but the name thing - orni - can be unique for the atreidis - like in the dune 2 game.

 

[Ahriman]

Yeah sure, simple we have not "Ornithopter" unit, so we can modify it into Omnithopter (Omnipotence) into being atreides UU, if not bombardment, hten 1-2 1st strikes and may be +1 str.
video is for unit model.

There is no such thing as an 'omnithopter'. Orni means bird, omni means all (or multi).

 

[Slvynn]

There is no such thing as an 'omnithopter'. Orni means bird, omni means all (or multi).

I think i didnt explained my idea well. I know the meaning of word Omni - and my suggestion, not to call it with boring Atreides Thopter, but to add, to create new name, like Omnithopter (Omni as mark of superiority, Multithopter, multitask etc.).

 

[Deliverator]

I don't think Omnithopter is a good name for the Atreides UU. I would prefer to use the name Hawk Thopter since their symbol is the hawk, and we think of another bird to replace the current Hawk Thopter unit.

 

[davidlallen]

I would prefer to use the name Hawk Thopter since their symbol is the hawk, and we think of another bird to replace the current Hawk Thopter unit.

I'm going to make some changes to the Atreides UU/UB/UA today. I plan to change the aerial bay world wonder(?) into a Atreides UB, Pilot School, which replaces the Aerie and gives +6XP to thopter and hornet units. I will also copy the Hawk Thopter to a new unit, Vulture Thopter, and make the Hawk the Atreides UU. If you'd be interested in making a UU Hawk Thopter graphic, that'd be great. Also I will remove the Atreides auto-draft mechanic, but I will leave the Atreides Heir unit. (Yes, Ahriman, I remember your request to make the Heir give a defensive bonus only, but I have not found the place in FFH which allows general defensive bonuses to be separate from strength bonuses. It is still on the list, AH108).

 

[Ahriman]

I plan to change the aerial bay world wonder(?) into a Atreides UB, Pilot School, which replaces the Aerie and gives +6XP to thopter and hornet units

Where will this fit? Aerie comes very very early, and +6xp might be too much then.

but I have not found the place in FFH which allows general defensive bonuses to be separate from strength bonuses

Understood. I am not good at differentiating which features are easy to do in vanilla, and which require some of the FFH/FF codebase changes.

 

[davidlallen]

Where will this fit? Aerie comes very very early, and +6xp might be too much then.

UB's are typically a direct replacement of the building at the same spot. It is a little powerful, but we are aiming to give each civ a strong, distinct power. This plus the hawk (strength 6, move 3, replaces vulture at strength 5, move 2) will give Atreides a strong focus on thopter/hornet units. I think this is a good thing.

 

[Ahriman]

Strength 6 on such an early unit *and* with +6 free xp is likely to be too much I think. Thats instant level 2, so with combat 2 its strength 7.2. Which is much stronger than its supposed counter, the missile trooper, and in fact any other units of that era; nothing else has a strength that high until hardened bladesmen, which are considerably later.

And remember that thopters all get a strength bonus vs melee.

I suggest that you:
a) Change the Aerie to +4 free xp for new thopters and hornets, and gives +1 extra air unit capacity in the city (like how airports normally give +4). So its still not giving you level 3 just by itself.
b) When the vulture is strength 5 2 moves, strength 5 3 moves would be powerful enough (3 moves on a thopter is very powerful because you can start on a desert tile, move onto land, pillage, and then move back onto desert again). Or strength 5 3 moves +1 first strike chance.
Strength 6 is too much.

 

[davidlallen]

OK, Pilot School gives +4 XP and +2 air capacity, Hawk is only strength 5 (still move 3).

 

[Ahriman]

Sounds good.

 

[davidlallen]

Ecaz is completely missing any UU / UB / UA. In the other thread we have discussed a little about giving them a third landing stage or two contracts from each landing stage. This is not very exciting. What can we do to make them interesting?

 

[Ahriman]

Some possibilities:
We did want to give them some trade synergies; they were our "trader civ" to replace the Guild. So a third landing stage or some buildings with trade bonuses would be nice. I like the idea of having a faction like the Morganites on Planetfall who want to keep open borders with everyone and generate lots of dosh from trade.

Or maybe they get a single free copy from their palace of the Ginaz training resource; it would be nice to signify somehow their affilitation with the Ginaz school, which is one of the few fluff things we have about them.

Or maybe they can build 1-2 copies of a UB landing stage in addition to the normal landing stage, that trigger the same kind of event as normal landing stages but have a separate set of importable goods (such as fogwood, a +1 happy luxury good, and some other drugs)

I don't think they need a ton of unique units; part of the point is that they don't have a special military, but have a great economy, so can afford to have more of all the normal stuff than everyone else.

Some unit possibilities
1. A drugged up melee fighter with a high strength value who dies at the end of combat (win or lose). Elaccan Gladiator?
Maybe a strength 10 hardened bladesmen replacement. Or a cheaper strength 7 hardened bladesmen replacement with +50% vs melee units. (So you can still shoot him as easily, but he's brutal vs any other melee.

2. A suspensor trade unit that has a mini great merchant trade mission. I think some mods had a unit like this too. I think that could be fun and in theme; sending your traders out, but having to keep them away from worms and from anyone you're at war with.

 

[davidlallen]

... have a separate set of importable goods (such as fogwood, a +1 happy luxury good, and some other drugs)

I will have to think about how to give them additional UR. I don't think one civ can have a different number of national wonders. Adding more contract types is easy, but it assumes they have lost the race to the best contracts. Do you have specific names for additional drug contracts? We want to make sure there are 10+ general purpose contracts but if we add more general ones, some of the drug ones could become UR for Ecaz.

Or maybe they get a single free copy from their palace of the Ginaz training resource ...
1. A drugged up melee fighter with a high strength value who dies at the end of combat (win or lose). Elaccan Gladiator?
2. A suspensor trade unit that has a mini great merchant trade mission. I think some mods had a unit like this too. I think that could be fun and in theme; sending your traders out, but having to keep them away from worms and from anyone you're at war with.

I like #0 and #1, and they are easy. I like #2; I would call the unit a Smuggler, but I am not sure how to do it. I will have to think about that one.

 

[Ahriman]

I don't think one civ can have a different number of national wonders.

You wouldn't need different numbers of national wonders across civs; you just create a unique building replacement that has its own limit. And then the new national wonder has identical code to the normal landing stage, and feeds into the trade good resource code in the same way.

Or you just use the normal building and then create a single third one UB that accesses a different list of resources.

I would call the unit a Smuggler, but I am not sure how to do it. I will have to think about that one.

There must be some parameters somewhere that govern the yields of the great merchant's trade mission, in the same way that there are parameters that determine the great engineer's hammer yield. So just give it the suspensor promotion, no combat strength, great person AI, and no abilities except the (scaled down) trade mission.