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E3 2005: Civ4 Live Stage Demo (GameSpot)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Thunderfall, May 18, 2005.

  1. Sirian

    Sirian Civ Map Programmer

    Dec 20, 2001
    Pennsylvania, USA
    Sounds good.

    Say, if "phony peace" issues are fixed up and rules of that sort aren't part of the Civ4 Epics, any chance we'll see you around again? :)

    - Sirian
  2. GeneralZed

    GeneralZed look around...

    Oct 24, 2004
    I dont like it much. Am I the only one with this thought in mind? The leaders specially look soooo comic-like. I wonder how far this is gonna get.
  3. pason

    pason Chieftain

    Nov 7, 2004
    Lovely north Sweden
    It's gonna be a long summer, indeed.

    Btw, I think the graphics are overworked and not "civish". Think it looks more like a RPG game like Heroes of might and magic or something. Look at the missionary, look at all shining stuff on units. You could add shining snowflakes on the trees as well.
  4. Crazy_Canadian

    Crazy_Canadian Chieftain

    Sep 3, 2004
    Anyone have an idea what the system requirements for a game like this will be......................?
  5. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

    Mar 12, 2003
    Norfolk, VA
    I think he said you can just upgrade the strength of the unit in general (instead of specific abilities).

    BTW, if Marines are gone, they definately should make some kind of improvement so units can either start with amphibious ability, or be upgraded to it without having to go through combat. They probably would have to prevent some units from achieving all upgrades. I wouldn't mind if they decided to do something like that, it would be kinda cool :cool:
  6. Lorteungen

    Lorteungen Chieftain

    May 19, 2005
    Well I'm apparently alone but I'm dissapointed :(

    First of all the graphics are ridiculously poor. This looks like a beta of a game that should've been released 2 or 3 years ago. I mean it looks ok but this is how Civ III should've looked when it was released and I had hoped they would finally catch up with the rest of the industry this time around.

    Take a look at the Age of Empires III footage on gamespot and then look at this again. Look at this screenshot and then compare it to this.

    Why is it that turn based strategy games have to look so outdated when RTS games (curse them) with lots of deleted going on at once can look like that? The small animates mines and animals are cute but NOT impressive. That deleted was done almost a decade ago by other games.

    Did you see the world view? Yeah it's cool that we'll no longer have to play in a flat world but it's not cool that it looks like a slightly updated Civ II! That did NOT look like a real planet! The continents look like they were drawn with a ruler. Since the original Civ I've wanted them to make just somewhat realistic looking terrain graphics, like those you see from satellite images.

    It's true that pretty graphics aren't everything but they are more important than people realize imho. What I love about the civ games is that they spark my imagination. Sometimes I like to just scroll around the map to look at my empire and use my imagination. Better graphics sure helps and makes for a much more immersive gaming experience. Also it wouldn't matter so much if the game actually contained some innovative gameplay changes but it doesn't seem like this will be the case. Most of the changes mentioned seems like stuff you would see in a mod. I like the sounds of most of these changes but there are some real weak spots in the civ games that I would've liked to have been addressed. 30% old, 30% new? I think not. Try 80% old, 15% new dissapointing graphics.

    I'll still it buy though...It is Civ afterall :king:
  7. microbe

    microbe Cascaded Mansion

    Nov 16, 2003
    I only played AOE I and its graphics was indeed good (better than CIV3).

    But for all fairness, is AOE III 3D or 2D? And is this an in-game screenshot or from the trailer? From the AOE video it seems everything they showed was static (nothing was moving) and from fixed angle (2D).
  8. Peck of Arabia

    Peck of Arabia Sociable Recluse

    Jan 20, 2005
    Good question! where am I?
    About Athesim, I hope there will be a civic thingy to abolish state religion, coz if it's to replace goverments, somethings got to represent communism. And do you reckon you can go back on civic decisions eg Reintroduce slavery or removed free speech?
  9. Lorteungen

    Lorteungen Chieftain

    May 19, 2005
    Take a look at the last movie on this page. I mean it even has it's own physics engine and all. I'm not saying it has to look like this though I'm just trying to point out how incredibly outdated the Civ IV graphics are compared to what's on the market now and what has been on the market for the last many years.

    Oh and hi btw, been browsing the forums now and then but never really had anything to say before :)
  10. Evie

    Evie Pronounced like Eevee

    Jan 5, 2002
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Do you REALLY expect 2Kgames and Firaxis to be able to match the kind of ressources Ensemble and Micro$oft can throw at Age of Empires III?

    If you do, you are deluded.
    If you do not, why are you comparing orange and apples - that is, games that don't have access to the same sort of development ressources?

    That's not even getting into the fact that, on average, Civilization is a MUCH more complex game than the Age series (as TBS tends to be compared to RTS), meaning probably more programing work required, especially if the AI is to be any decent.

    Or into the fact that a major RTS title can most likely dwarf the profits of a major TBS ones, thanks to the draw on casual gamers et al (faster multiplay, swifter games, more action, etc)

    And into the fact that Civ fans have repeatedly stated they wanted gameplay, not graphics.

    And into the fact that, unless I'm wrong, the kind of graphic AOE has would greatly cut down on the sort of moddability Civilization enjoys.
  11. Incubuz

    Incubuz Chieftain

    Oct 1, 2001
    Who cares about eye candy, I could live with civ3 or even civ2 graphics as long as the gameplay improves.
  12. Mobilize

    Mobilize Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

    Jan 18, 2003
    I am so unbelievably upset right now. I was hoping the demos would make me feel more optimistic about this game but now I am more pessimistic than ever.

    This game is UGLY!!!!!

    Everything is too big, the cities are too far apart, the tiles are too square, the terrain isn't as expansive, I am very very angry.

    How could Firaxis even make such a kiddy-looking game. I thought Civilization was about realism, and was supposed to look realistic. Now it looks lame, even look at the leaderheads, CivIII leaderheads are way better. In fact, CivIII is graphically 10000% better.

    What's even worse is that user-made scenarios for historical events will most-likely look so unrealistic that they won't even be worth attempting. Argh!

    Firaxis is doing the same thing Blizzard did. They're going from a fabulous 2d game to a horrible 3d game. Seriously, if Firaxis doesn't include a 2d terrain, make the city graphics and unit graphics like CivIII, and revamp it's tile structure, I will never buy this game.

    Sid, what were you thinking?
  13. Thunderfall

    Thunderfall Administrator Administrator Moderator

    Oct 25, 2000
    One thing to consider is the scale of things. Civ games play on a global map with numerous cities, while RTS games usually play on a small regional area (ex. province) and can afford to show details like individual grass, a pond, and small rocks on the map. I don't think we'll see those things in a Civ game anytome soon.
  14. ShiroKobbure

    ShiroKobbure Still modding Civ3

    Aug 16, 2003
    I agree, I do not like the way the new leaderheads look.... its too cartoonish....
    as for the graphics, I dont really mind. If you make it too realistic it makes modding that much harder(Graphic creating). I really liked the way Civ 3 handeled and looked... Hopefully they wont wonder too far away from that. One thing I do hope they take from Empire Earth 2 is that every civ culture (Asia, Europe, Middle East ect.) is that they all have their own unit styles, instead of everything looking European...
    Oh well I will play it when it comes out and if it isnt very good, I can always play civ 3.
    3d isnt always better than 2d. especially for a strat game. I think they are just trying to attract more buyers with this, but they may turn old fans away.

    By the way do you know if all civs will have 2 leaders to choose from? Or only France?
  15. Thunderfall

    Thunderfall Administrator Administrator Moderator

    Oct 25, 2000
    There are 18 civs and 28 leaders, so some of the Civs got only 1 leader. From the live stage video, we know China has 2 leaders also.
  16. PriestOfDiscord

    PriestOfDiscord (Not MobBoss)

    Sep 29, 2002
    the deepest, darkest South
    My thoughts(on Religion implementation as a whole)

    At first, I thought the bonuses of LOS with every city that is following the religion you founded throughout the game to be overpowering. But then I realized it probably isn't going to last the entire game, which would make far more historical sense. In the early ages, religion did have an overwhelming effect and such a bonus could be justified. All the way up to around the Industrial Revolution or so.

    But what then? I'm pretty sure Religion/Religious Tolerance is one of the 5 civics categories. At the very start of the game, I imagine you start out with generic mysticist/spiritualist beliefs along the lines of paganism. At this part of the game you don't have any or at the most, limited contact with one of the 7 major religions. Religious missionaries will target you for conversion will target your 'barbaric' peoples. When you found or are majorly influenced by one of the 7, eventually you will go choose a state religion and your civics choice is state-sponsored or state-enforced. That will probably lead you through a large portion of the mid-game and open up the LOS bonus for you.

    But in the more modern ages, there will be other choices available to you. Your nation could become secular, and have open religious tolerance. I'm not sure what effects would have offhand other than making religion less of an issue in your society. Or you could go the hardline communist route, and go to state enforced atheism. All of the sudden your empire is blacked out to the religious nations with priests formerly operating in your cities. I'm not sure what the 5th religious option would be, and to be honest I could be totally wrong here but hey it was fun to think about for a bit. :D
  17. Sid

    Sid Observer and Participant

    Sep 16, 2001
    Christchurch, NZ
    It looks awesome, it's gonna play awesome. Some of you whinge too much. If you want to get a sense of the game's look and feel, fire up 'Pirates' and land your crew on an island; similar graphics engine. I really enjoyed the movie on my PC, but the quality was a lot lower on my Mac.

    For Mac users, I don't think we'll get it on the Mac, unless someone is porting 'Pirates'. Might be wrong there, but I think that there are some innate program issues that just don't make it across. Civ3 was great on the Mac, but -- in my opinion -- plays much better on the PC.

    'In-my-wildest-dreams' endnote: did you see that Soren was demonstrating on a laptop that was linked to a large plasma screen? If ever I crack the big time financially, I want a high-end lap top and a large plasma or LCD screen, or a high-quality data projector. I'll just play Civ4 in a room with a delivery shute for pizzas and beers and occasional visits from female players to discuss strategy.
  18. rbis4rbb

    rbis4rbb Sid

    Jul 13, 2004
    935! 935!

    wah wah wah

    I think it looks very different and cool
  19. Chinese American

    Chinese American Hamtastic Knight

    Aug 23, 2001
    Chinatown, USA
    maybe it's futile, but i'm trying to link the tech icons with ones we know and don't know. for example, communism isn't listed in the prerelease information page, but its icon stands out so you can't miss it. the icons are not sorted alphabetically. some icons are similar from civ3. if 3.1 (row 3, 1st icon) is communism, then

    1.1 mysticism
    1.6 monarchy
    1.9 code of laws?
    1.10 feudalism

    2.1 music theory
    2.5 nationalism
    2.9 democracy
    2.10 the corporation

    3.1 communism
    3.3 ecology
    3.7 pottery

    4.2 currency
    4.5 banking
    4.6 education
    4.7 printing press
    4.8 economics
    4.9 astronomy
    4.11 scientific method

    5.1 physics
    5.3 medicine
    5.4 electricity
    5.6 nuclear power
    5.7 flight
    5.8 recycling
    5.9 chemistry?
    5.10 genetics
    5.11 superconductor

    6.7 horse-back riding
    6.8 iron working
    6.9 bronze working
    6.10 compass?
    6.11 construction

    7.2 engineering
    7.8 steel
    7.9 mass production

    8.1 industrialization
    8.4 computers
    8.5 rocketry
    8.6 satellites
  20. Genocidicbunny

    Genocidicbunny Bug squasher

    Feb 5, 2005
    Orange Town
    That looks pretty accurate for now but remember, its coming out during the holday season ( which one though?) so they still have time to change things

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