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Easy on the DRM pretty please?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Lord Lord, Mar 15, 2010.

  1. Veshta

    Veshta Warlord

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    'Added Value' is infinitely better than any kind of authentication system. Piracy cannot be overcome no matter how much tech gadgetry one throws at it which leaves behaviourism.

    StarCraft2/Diablo3 will probably be the most pirated games in history and Blizzard knows it so they have expended a ton of work into the 'legitimate' experience by make BattleNet something that is desirable in its own right .. beyond merely acting as a match-making platform.

    With the mention of access to downloading mods from inside Civ5 I get the feeling that Firaxis are going to take the same route. If they make the tools extensive and interface enticing enough, actual piracy will be limited to the instant-gratification crowd, the ones that generate the used games in the first place.
     
  2. cspyr0

    cspyr0 Chieftain

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    The sad part is that no DRM is going to be effective against piracy on Civ5, since it's mainly a single-player game. Starcraft 2, from what I've read, will force you to log into BattleNet even for single player (of course that bit will get hacked quickly). Its main allure is the multiplayer though, so DRM will work well for it.
     
  3. Veshta

    Veshta Warlord

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    Civilization is also a cerebral and time consuming game so 99% of the people who do end up pirating it probably wont play it more than a week or so and would most likely not have bought it in the first place.

    If the access to mods, maps, community et al. is done tastefully online where authentication can be done non-intrusively maybe as a requirement for installing the add-ons then you are encouraging purchase ..
    Depends on the quality of mods obviously but between a rating system and word-of-mouth (and judging from Civ4 mods) quality will be the last of our concerns.

    Carrot > Stick when it comes to changing behavioural patterns after all :D
     
  4. deanej

    deanej Deity

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    I like that idea, but it depends on how many mods use Firaxis's system exclusively. There would be no way to keep pirates from downloading mods here.
     
  5. DPyro

    DPyro Chieftain

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    I think the question comes down to "Do I trust Firaxis/2K Games?" The game developers don't want DRM, its a hassle, support nightmare, and lowers the quality of the product. Usually its the publishers that force a DRM scheme, but seeing as Civ 4 did not have any real DRM (just a CD check that got patched out) and they have the same publisher its very likely Civ 5 won't have any real DRM. Civilization is a bit of a niche game in that it has a dedicated group of gamers that support and mod the game, and I'm pretty sure most of us would pay for Civ 5 anyway even if there was a fully unlocked pirated option.
     
  6. dragon.jade

    dragon.jade Chieftain

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    Well, just to add my two cents worth on the matter:

    I am a civAddict from the first installement of Civilization. When I discovered it, I was in engineering school and was playing it from evenings to mornings ("One more turn..."), which landed me a VERY low ranking amongst my fellows students for the first years. The version was a simple DOS copy. And I did not pay for it.

    When CivII came, I was still in engineering school. The last years of it. I managed to get my diploma despite that Sid Dealer Meier's attempts to lure me to a lifetime of suffering and poverty. And I did pay for the game, but later, when I bought a full-CivII box set with Fantastic Realms and CivNet included.

    But CivIII came and obsoleted CivII. I was so addicted I bought the game retail box overseas because the distinct opening sales days (show right to the point the addiction: it was a mere single month difference!) . That was I first buying on the internet.

    CivIV was however locally bought, and the different expansion sets were purchased as they come along.

    To summarize it: I am a buying customer who never resorted to pirating unless I was financially in no position to buy it (difficult student years where money is very tight). I bought the game after as a thank and recognition for the hours of fun provided by the works of others. To each their due.

    As far as I am concerned, I do not care about if the game is pirated or not. Everybody has their reasons doing what they do. In my opinion, I recognize that people should get money for the work they provide in making that game. So let everybody check with their own conscience and not bother others.

    As for DRM, I think the DVD-check at the launching of the game is all right. Anything over it will sadly push me in the arms of a cracked version. Because I am mainly a lone player, I do not wish to have to be connected to the Internet to play a standalone game! As replayability is very high, I require the possibility to reinstall the game on any number of my future computer as much as I want for the next few centuries (without having to connect to a long-disappeared server).
    So in all those cases, I would end up buying the game and use a cracked version.

    I generally do not bother trying and finding cracked games. I know it is easy and require a little skill. But I am pretty sure I can manage that if I had to. Because the Civilization franchise is very special to me, I am sure I WILL manage it. And once that knowledge is available to me...

    So please save us fans the hassle, we LOVE that game, standalone or netlinked, addicts or part-timers, teens to granddaddies. Please do not make us thieves by requiring more than can be respectably asked of a purchaser.

    Concerning the piracy purcentage, why doesn't someone make a poll in this forum about it with the different possibilities? Sure, its worth will be limited to us civFanatics, but it would be a more firmer ground to stand and start arguing from than the interested guesses sprouting here and there.

    Available possibilities being:
    • I will never use a cracked version of CivV because of personal moral opinion about myself, theft and respect for other people's work.
    • I will never use a cracked version of CivV because I am afraid of virus and trojan you can get on warez.
    • I will never use a cracked version of CivV because I don't have the knowledge/connection to get such a version.
    • I will never use a cracked version of CivV because I don't bother searching/learning the knowledge to get such a version.
    • I will use a cracked version of CivV if DRM is to too much of a bother but I will buy the game... eventually.
    • I will use a cracked version of CivV if DRM is to too much of a bother but I won't buy the game in that case.
    • I will use a cracked version of CivV because I cannot afford it as of yet but I will buy the game... eventually.
    • I will use a cracked version of CivV because I cannot afford it as of yet but I won't buy the game later.
    • I will use a cracked version of CivV because it is available before the official retail date but I will buy the game... eventually.
    • I will use a cracked version of CivV because it is available before the official retail date but I won't buy the game later.
    • Add your own ideas on the matter...

    I am curious as to the results of this poll if it shall come to pass...

    My two cents,
    Dragon.Jade
     
  7. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Polling out, who's gonna violate some laws is sure a great idea :rolleyes:.
    Don't forget, that you'll get infracted for supporting piracy here :rolleyes:.
     
  8. rmunn

    rmunn Chieftain

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    There's another option that you missed:

    I will buy the game, THEN download a cracked version so I don't have to deal with the DRM hassle.
     
  9. dragon.jade

    dragon.jade Chieftain

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    I guess you missed the line:

    "I will use a cracked version of CivV if DRM is to too much of a bother but I will buy the game... eventually."

    Dragon.Jade :-(
     
  10. ori

    ori Repair Guy Super Moderator

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    I could not have put it better myself. This thread has had considerable and surprising leeway on this front, I guess that was because some moderator was not online for a week or two :mischief:. However I would remind everyone here that:

    Moderator Action: This forum operates on a zero tolerance for piracy rule. And this does include announcing you intent to pirate the game, posting how to pirate the game etc. So please don't. You are welcome to discuss the merits and demerits of any number of DRM schemes - software piracy however is strictly forbidden by forum rules and anyone found guilty of participating in piracy activity on the forum will be punished.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  11. DeathReborn

    DeathReborn Chieftain

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    The big ones to avoid are Ubisoft/EA type "must be online at all times" & RootKit style DRM systems. Should they go with this kind of system i'll go back to Civilization on the Atari ST (maybe Civ2 on the PC also) and boycott Civ5 & any successors that use the DRM that really only hurts the paying customer.

    Firaxis & 2K need to remember that underground movements can derail mainstream advertising (RATM vs X-Factor for example). If they do implement one of the draconian DRM systems it could backfire spectacularly and i'd hate for the talented programmers & artists at Firaxis to lose their jobs over poor management decisions (should they be made).
     
  12. Zhahz

    Zhahz PC Gamer

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    I prefer some kind of one-time internet-based activation. I despise having to keep a CD in the drive to play a game and really hate DRM that inevitably does something screwy to my system. Usually if I play a game with DRM I have to reboot before I can watch DVDs I've purchased on my PC - and that simply isn't cool.

    I've been buying more and more games as downloads rather than on CD simply to avoid the hassles of dealing with CDs and DRM.

    I pay for my music, movies, and games, and I don't like getting treated like a criminal.

    As programmer and a reasonably moral person I have zero emphathy/sympathy for the scumbags that steal intellectual property (like music, games, movies) and would like to see THEM get punished instead of the people who pay.

    It did, but they took it out in the final patch when they basically indicated they were done with the game. A nice gesture. I wish more companies would reward their paying customers years after the game releases like this. :-/
     
  13. DPyro

    DPyro Chieftain

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    I'm not even sure that it will have a CD check, considering its being released simultaneously as a downloadable product. It would probably be a Ctrl-C civ5.exe on the Steam version and Ctrl-P on the retail version to avoid it. Additionally, a lot of us have been played earlier versions of Civ, and simply by the virtue of spending so much time with a computer i'm fairly sure that most of us could easily obtain a cracked copy if the DRM became a hassle.
     
  14. Modiga-Disabled

    Modiga-Disabled Warlord

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    I'd say either the retail version will require Steam, or it will have some other form of copy protection (which may just be a disk check). I doubt they'd leave it completely open, although these days disk checks aren't worth much and maybe they can just be done away with.
     
  15. arstal

    arstal Say No 2 Net Validations

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    Another option you forgot:

    I will play Elemental War of Magic instead of Civ 5 if the DRM scheme is stupid.

    There's enough good PC games out there but I'm not going to take it up the rear just for one game, no matter how good it is.
     
  16. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    That was pretty much the case in Civ IV until patch 3.19... CD/DVD on drive if bought in physical format, Steam if downloaded ....

    I hope they continue that way, even with my "disk smasher" laptop CD drive ;)
     
  17. Red Adept

    Red Adept Warlord

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    I would love to see eSATA flash drives and games just shipped on that. No messy DVD/CDs, no copying onto your hard drive, portable and playable. I'm sure that the drive itself would be a dongle and there's your DRM.
     
  18. Lord Lord

    Lord Lord Chieftain

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    Why not just an USB dongle. I havent seen any powered eSATA ports out so the eSATA flash drives are unwieldy ... and USB3.0 is faster anyway.
     
  19. DPyro

    DPyro Chieftain

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    Yeah, but what about when your flash drive breaks? At least DVD/CD's are cheaper media.
     
  20. ori

    ori Repair Guy Super Moderator

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    If they stay with a dongle key they should just stick to a cd check - switching to eSata or USB doesn't change the nature of it. Whether your dongle is a CD or an eSata/USB drive does not really make much of a difference.
     

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