Embassy to Sirius

[CharlemagneXLII]

I'll send this later this evening:

That sounds great, we would like to trade maps anyways. The money will be wired to your account shortly.

We also feel you should know that Mavericks sent us an ultimatum, apparently our exploring warrior is scaring them, despite our open borders and non-aggression pact. We have no idea how this situation will be resolved, as the Mavericks are quite unpredictable. We'll keep you apprised of further details, but look for a Maverick DoW.

EDIT: We would probably want to only trade screenshots so as to not lose out the circumnavigation thing. Sirius and probably Amazon would probably be fine with us getting it, since it stays out of CDZ's already fast navy.

 

[galdarian]

We just need to make sure we don't accidently mess up our circumnavigation gambit.

I agree. We are less than 20 turns away from knowing that outcome. Once our ships have set sail it will be all or nothing anyway and we can negotiate a time frame for map exchanges.

 

[RegentMan]

I would take out the "anyways." They added on the map exchange to their side of the bargaining table, and if we tell them "oh we were going to do it anyway" they might up the deal some more.

Probably not over somethig this small, though.

 

[CharlemagneXLII]

Good idea. I haven't sent it yet since the game is down, and I'm concerned about the map trading- either we should tell them about the gambit or only agree to trade screenshots for now. I don't want to promise map trades and then not deliver.

 

[cav scout]

I think we will be ok with an initial map trade before we set sail. After that we can limit it to screenshots until we complete circumanavigation.

 

[CharlemagneXLII]

Sent:

That sounds great, we would be happy to trade maps. When do you anticipate getting paper?

We also feel you should know that Mavericks sent us an ultimatum, apparently our exploring warrior is scaring them, despite our open borders and non-aggression pact. We have no idea how this situation will be resolved, as the Mavericks are quite unpredictable. We'll keep you apprised of further details, but look for a Maverick DoW.

The money will be wired to your account shortly.

Sincerely,

CharlemagneXLII
Ambassador

EDIT: Received:

Dear CharlemagneXLII and friends in The Continuum,

We thank you for your cash gift, and hope you can make good use of our work boat Voyager. We anticipate completing our research of Paper in 4 turns (turn 89), and will offer you a map trade as soon as we are able.

Thanks also for the information regarding Mavericks. We have had no contact with them since we declined their trade offers. We should be encountering their culture on the land mass between our home islands shortly, however. We will likewise keep you appraised of developments on that front.

Regards,

Trystero, Sirian diplomat

 

[Earthling]

Know this is an example of the type of post that really spans multiple threads and discussions and doesn't have it's own place to go, but anyway, here's the issue:

What are our current plans on getting the Music (Great Artist) situation resolved?

Currently, we haven't heard back from CDZ about the Spamville city/city rushing in general. But regardless of how this works out, a great artist for either team is too tempting and would still do a lot of damage.

So, we obviously don't want CDZ researching music.

One option is that we could try to research it ourselves, that always has pitfalls though. This isn't my personal favorite idea, part of me posting here, as I'd rather think we do the following:

-Get one of our other allies to research straight to music, they get the Great Artist, we avoid the issue with CDZ, and we can be flexible in whatever we are doing.

I think the best possibility for this, is that we suggest we research Astronomy, instead of Sirius (who I believe might have been after it and they just got paper) and Sirius researches Music. I see very little reason to think Sirius would object to this unless they already have some underhanded agreement with CDZ, so we basically side-step the issue.

If we want to work this out with Sirius though it obviously has to be done very soon, hence I'd be happy to help the Sirius embassy and get this sorted out too.

Even if we don't agree on such a plan, we also could work on a general draft of a message to discuss tech with the ETTT anyway, which I think needs to be done. AMAZONs might have been tied up with Theology or something (or did they already get that -were they going after Philo or another such tech?) but we really don't know what each team is trying to research next for sure, just something to consider.

 

[CharlemagneXLII]

After giving this issue some thought I came to a different conclusion. Since the ETTT is designed to avoid tech duplication, if two teams go for the same tech, the alliance members will feel betrayed and angry towards each other- if either ourselves or Sirius go for music along with CDZ, there will be consequences, namely the possible breakdown of the alliance. Sirius might not be happy to secretly research music- they would get blamed for breaking the deal, If CDZ openly declares they're going for music. If both of them declare it, there will be a large disagreement over who gets it. If neither of them say what they are doing, it will result in disaster once one team gets it. In fact, our circumnavigation gambit may have produced the same results, though Amazon and Sirius would have been pleased the +1 stayed out of CDZ's hands.

So here's what I propose- We ask all alliance members to agree not to research music, ever (or at least as long as the treaty stands). That means no culture slider, no Notre Dame and no Sistine Chapel. It isn't a prerequisite for anything. I know it seems a bit drastic, but if all members agree to it, then it works for us. If CDZ is against it, then the blame for any problems rests with them.

 

[galdarian]

I have raised this issue previously, what happens when we get to Physics? It's likely that the treaty will last roughly up until that point. The GS is actually more valuable to which ever team gets it and depending on how it's used the ETTT will arguably get a return from whomever gets it.

The only reason that a GA is tempting is because the opportunity cost on getting it from music is less than obtaining it otherwise.

 

[Earthling]

I'm not really sure this alliance would last all the way to Physics. Liberalism is perhaps another point of contention as is Economics - but yes there is always the risk that the team that got the lead tech and free goodies suddenly decides not to share.

But we can handle those when we get there - the fairest answer I'd propose to allies I think is to use such free GP to bulb and then just share the bulbed techs/keep sharing tech as we were doing anyway.

I thought Music was a prereq to Military Tradition or something, but that's down the line a bit/not exactly so immediate.

I really don't think other teams will go for that idea to avoid Music altogether though. They wouldn't want MERLOT or Mavs randomly teching it, and the GA is just too tempting. It would of course be nice if we actually knew what people were teching now, that's kinda to blame every one of the four teams for not keeping up to date with each other.

However that is an interesting suggestion and if enough people agree it's a better route I'd go with it anyway - we really need inputs here because this is going to not just affect us domestically (what we tech next) but also our views on foreign relations and which teams we're getting along better with.

For that matter, we really have not discussed anything like the Great Library, that's a pretty solid advantage to whomever gets it and our alliance has no particular agreements in place on building wonders either...

 

[Earthling]

No responses yet from CDZ nor have I received a response on PMs to a couple members asking if CDZ checked their team messages. But we did get a message from Sirius (sent on their own volition, we haven't sent them anything yet recently):

Fellow ETTA members,

We have completed our research of Paper, and have distributed it to the ETTA. We think it would be the best use of our research capabilities if we work on Astronomy as soon as Optics is available. We will need to accumulate some gold to do so, and are planning to put minimal beakers into Philosophy while we wait for Optics.

We would like to know if the rest of the ETTA agrees with this course of action, and what the others were planning to research.

Regards,

Trystero, Team Sirius diplomat

If we're going to act on this, we might act now. Who knows what CDZ will want, but CDZ declaring they are after Music uncontested is bad news - we'd look like we would end up whining to our allies and CDZ having the artist would be annoying. Maybe CDZ doesn't send a message to everyone yet but if we want someone else to do this I think it's vital we get a message out before CDZ declares they want music.

We're just 1 turn from Optics right and I don't think it's fair to just delay that to try and deal with Sirius, we'll see what we can do though.

 

[CharlemagneXLII]

I like the idea of agreeing that whoever gets music should bulb and then share that tech. So, something like:

To our fellow ETTT members:
Quatronia agrees with Sirius' plan, and will have optics done within the next turn.

As the first team that researches music gets a free great artist, agreeing over who should research this technology can be a contentious one, and since it would go against the nature of the ETTT to have a tech race to music, Quatronia would like to propose that whichever team researches music first should use the great artist to bulb the next tech and share it with the ETTT. Are all teams in agreement on this?

We should send this soon, tomorrow sometime.

As for the CDZ issue, we can probably afford to wait a turn to see if they respond.

 

[Earthling]

I think if it's in agreement among our team internally I'm happy with us pursuing Drama => Music then, the announcement here about the great artist is fine (I would add in we intend to research that if that's what we will be doing).

Sirius is fine for Astro, obviously need to let them know we'll have Optics so saying "We just got Optics and will step aside for Sirius to pick up Astro as sounds best" or some other acknowledgement there is good too.

So I overall approve of the message and I approve of the plan therein/related plan for our techs.

We could actually make a note or too what we're thinking on wonders though if we want. Because we don't really want our other allies arguing over wonders so much either. I think I could be all right saying we do not highly prioritize either the Colossus or the Great Library right now which are probably the most pressing currently, but it could be a point to bring up just for the other ETTT members to discuss too.

 

[cav scout]

I would only announce "the Great Artist will be used to bulb" if we loose the race (or decide not to go for it). If we win and get the GA then we should culture bomb CDZ! They are the ones that started this by founding on our coastline.

We should announce to the alliance that we are going Drama-> Music. Basically the first team to publicly claim a tech will probably be allowed to get it by the other teams. No on wants to rock the boat too bad. But if CDZ gripes and challenges us for Music we can always fall back on the "Great Artist will only bulb tact." That way we come out looking good by taking the high road while CDZ looks bad for challening us.

Oh and if we will be getting the Great Artist (or at least deny it to CDZ) this should factor into their city swap decision making.

So lets send a tech update to all our allies: Quatronia is going Drama-> Music.

 

[galdarian]

I agree on the actions however if challenged we need to be able to provide a decent reason to be researching music as opposed to another tech.

I.e. We are teching Drama for the slider and then Music as a pre-req for Military Tradition....

Otherwise it will be transparent that we're teching music to get the GA.

 

[RegentMan]

I would only announce "the Great Artist will be used to bulb" if we loose the race (or decide not to go for it). If we win and get the GA then we should culture bomb CDZ! They are the ones that started this by founding on our coastline.

 

[Earthling]

We could say Mavericks are sending weird messages about prophet-bulbing their way around or something.

Mavericks threatening the great library alone is enough for this general path of techs. And Music is a prereq for later and pays for itself.

But I really would rather put in the message the part about GA bulbing anyway. We need to send it either way though to be sure to send it out first, so if yall don't want to I'm fine sending it without that part.

I don't think we'll actually use the GA against CDZ in the end though, no matter what messages said that would make everyone angry, so I don't see the point about not saying it now, but maybe we catch CDZ making more of a fuss or something that makes them look bad I guess.

 

[Earthling]

Well regardless of the foibles about mentioning uses of the GA or things like world wonders, we need to send some sort of message if we haven't already (did we send it since yesterday? Didn't look like it), so I again I give blanket approval to what we've got already or drafts/revisions the team agrees on, I think we need to get that out there, call dibs as it were in front of all our allies on the path we're taking.

 

[cav scout]

Update from Sirius:

Dear ETTA members,

We can confirm that we are now researching Astronomy. At our present research rate, we anticipate this will take approximately 18 turns.

Regards,

Trystero, Team Sirius

 

[CharlemagneXLII]

To our Sirian friends and allies:

We plan to attack the Mavericks on their home island in 3-4 turns. We feel that, since they have concentrated defenses on the mainland, and do not anticipate such a bold move, their island will be undefended. We are aiming to deal the most damage as possible as quickly as possible, and this is it. We do not wish to hog spoils of war by going straight after the island, and we would like to negotiate post-war Mav city distribution with you guys.

We should also communicate more regarding military strategy, so we would like to know if you have any offensives planned. It would be ideal if you were to launch one soon before or after our own, to create division and confusion in the Maverick forces.

Sincerely,
Team Quatronia.

I find it's easier to discuss a letter that's already made rather than talk about making one, even though I don't know what everyone's positions on the matter are. I just really think we should be talking about these things to Sirius so we can keep them as allies beyond this war, and to make this war go faster.