Embassy to Team Quatronia

[Sommerswerd]

Can you ask CDZ for Oil in-game? They don't need it as the are not building Destroyers. That way we can gift Oil to Q.

 

[2metraninja]

Can you ask CDZ for Oil in-game? They don't need it as the are not building Destroyers. That way we can gift Oil to Q.

I already did it last turn

I hope they accepted

 

[Sommerswerd]

Here are my recent conversations with Q, which is now led by our old teammate Caledorn. I edited out the personal stuff as it was all over PM:

I've notified everyone in the UN thread that I am willing to take over Team Q turnplaying if there are no objections to it ...

Please note that I will also be trying to thwart Amazons attempts at getting the victory as we discussed earlier, ... the most probable wise move I could do as Q at the moment is to funnel a lot of cash into espionage with a weight on Amazon to make sure you guys cannot follow Q's movements and cities as soon as possible...

I am going to log in now to the game and cancel the 100 GPT deal though, because that's making a big impact in the Q economy - and since there are no war going on now ...

I have focused the slider right now on 50% culture. Q is in danger of losing the city on the southern arm of the continent to Team CDZ - the city tile itself is only left at 51% Quatronian, so I desperately need more culture there and also on Comet. I'm not sure if running 50% culture is a wise course tacticswise, but at this point I see no other option as losing the city in the center of the southern arm would be a dramatic loss to Team Q. I suspect Team Q is running their culture slider high. Espy does not do much good if I lose cities one by one to culture flip from Team CDZ.

... I would like to ask you what the current levels of culture is in the cities of "Or here" and "ereh rO" are if you would be so kind as to share this information with me. Also the Sirian city that is straight up from Comet, on the southern coast of the north-west arm of the continent would be helpful to know how much culture has. I would consider it most kind if Team Amazon (to be a bit diplomatic here *grin*) would be helpful to Team Q and divulge this information to us. I believe it does not pose a breach of the ETTT in any way?

And yes, I will start doing turn logs immediately upon receiving access to the Q forums, starting with this turn. It is a very good advice, even if it's going to be a bit cumbersome to do the screenshots (I think I will avoid doing those for every turn).

OK, Good luck Caledorn,

I salute your courage and adventurous spirit. You will be a legend on CFC for your bravery. The Sirians city on South-Central Bode makes 17 culture /turn.

I will check the CDZ ones when next log in, prob next turn.

Thank you very much!

We are going to send off a diplomatic request to CDZ and politely ask them to reduce the cultural output of the cities Or here and ereh rO. We will also state to them that in the unfortunate circumstance the city should flip, the Quatronian Government will not tolerate that and politely ask that the city is returned to us immediately.

We hope for the Amazons support in this, as an intended cultural flip could be considered an act of war and a breach of the ETTT NAP - and it seems that the CDZ government are quite deliberately trying to flip the city as we have lost several tiles there over the last few turns.

Another major problem is that Q is currently completely unable to entertain our responsibility towards the ETTT as we are forced to run our Culture slider at 50% - money that could be funneled into research instead.

There is actually activity in the Q team now. I have at least 3 active members there now, who had their interest sparked as soon as I started doing screenshots and turnplay logs actively!

Really glad to hear you were able to resurrect the team so quickly

It is important to be aware, that the ETTT does not contain a NAP. Remember Sirius did not violate the ETTT by attacking Q. They violated it by refusing to share tech. So telling CDZ that they are violating the ETTT by pushing on you with culture is simply inaccurate.

I doubt CDZ would reduce their cultural efforts against Q. Why should they? They have Constructaco, which gives a huge culture boost to all the cities they spread it to, so they are probably not even running the culture slider. That could explain how they are taking tiles, by using Constructaco.

Last remember CDZ has fighters, so be careful with threatening them.

Thanks for your quick response, Sommers

I have been in touch with socralynnek, and he confirms what you say here about the Creative Construction corporation. He also stated their non-hostile intentions regarding the city, so they would immediately return the city if it should happen that it would flip. He also offered to spread the corporation to our city - however, I do not know if this is a good idea as I am not familiar enough with the corporations to know their in-depth game mechanic. I assume that they will also profit from spreading the corp to our city, just as spreading a religion would?

We may have to accept that we help CDZ with that though, as running the culture slider as high as we do now is not acceptable in the long run. We would, in the long run, be non-contributors to the ETTT, which would place us eventually in a position where the other ETTT members would consider ousting us from it as we would not contribute anything back.

What about Sushi Co? We could spread that to you. You prob have more seafood than marble etc right? So sushi would give you more culture. Check and let me know so I can ask the other guys.

Sushi Co would be more beneficial for us yes. Can we spread the corp ourselves further on if you spread it to one of our cities?

Yes if you have it in one city you can make executives in that city to spread it yourself

Can a city contain more than one corporation?

Yes a city can have as many Corporations as possible. However, a city can not have corporations that compete for resources. For example, you cant have the Ethanol Corporation in the same city as the Cereal Corporation, because they both use Corn.

So the Max Corporations that any one city can have is 4. In one city you could have Sushi (or Cereal, or Ethanol), Jewelery, Aluminum, and Construction. Hope this helps.

BTW I checked the cultural output of ereh Ro and Or Here. The western city is generating 32, and the eastern one is generating 53. Maybe consider running Sushi and Constructacon in Pulsar to combat this.

So if there is still tension between CDZ and Q we want to encourage that. Also, if they are willing to let us spread our Corporation to them we should consider it. Especially if they are going to spread either ours or CDZ's, we want them to spread ours. I wouldn't want Sirius or CDZ to get it though, as they share borders with us and them having a Cultural Corporation would help them squeeze our borders.

Speaking of which, maybe the way to go is get the Max culture Corporations in our Border cities with CDZ and especially in any cities that we want to use for the Culture victory race. A city with all 3 Culture corporations (Diamond Co. Constructacon, and Sushico) would be a shoe in for Max culture, generating over 100 Culture per turn, maybe even more especially with Cathedrals and Hermitage and Broadcast towers.

Which reminds me, we need to switch our civics as soon as Broadway finishes. The civis we are running suck for Peacetime.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Got a reply from Q:

Thank you! Then we would be very happy to receive Sid's Sushi from you guys.

And thank you for checking the culture! Please note that the troops that are currently in Resonance are not there because I intend to be hostile towards CDZ. I'm not sure CDZ has noticed them, but I am pretty sure you guys have. I will probably move them back to QHI just in case CDZ thinks I'm preparing for warmongering.

 

[2metraninja]

Yes, it is OK to give Q a Sids representative. Especially when they are not giving us all their excess resources. We must ask them not to spread it to CDZ and Sirius though, just as you suggested.

 

[nabaxo]

Tell them to get Creative Constructions from CDZ first. Then we can give them Sushi. What this'll do is it enables Q to give us Creative Constructions.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Tell them to get Creative Constructions from CDZ first. Then we can give them Sushi. What this'll do is it enables Q to give us Creative Constructions.

We don't want Constructacon, as it conflicts with MiningCo, so we can't use it. Also, Q already has Constructacon in Pulsar Plateau, not that it will do them any good since Orhere and erehrO also have it

In other news, just got this PM from Caledorn:

Hey Sommers

I am a bit confused at the moment because of the message 2metraninja has sent out to all the members of the ETTT proposing a ban on researching Fission (which I set our current research goal to after our last ingame chat 2 turns ago) until we have the UN.

Wouldn't it be more sensible to set the bar on building the Manhattan Project rather than researching Fission? The Nuclear Power Plants are very sweet, and I have calculated with using them as a part of the current Q strategy.

We will (or would.. if this goes through with a vote of 3-1 we have no real power to actually say no to this suggestion) of course share Fission with everyone inside the ETTT, and we would also agree to not building the Manhattan Project until the UN has been built and a ban on nukes can be proposed. I doubt anyone really considers military domination a viable strategy for winning this game now, as Team Sirius has been heavily damaged in the former war, Team CDZ is rather quietly expanding their economy and hammer situation, and us in Team Q are trying to get up to speed on the economy and hammer situation too. It is rather obvious that the team who would benefit the most from a ban on nukes is Team Amazon as you are the ones who have the most to lose from anyone building and using them. But even if someone were to build and use them you would have a military power that is more or less unstoppable - even in a situation where all other three teams ganged up on you (a situation I cannot see coming to be honest).

If the ban on researching Fission goes through for all ETTT members, we will have wasted about 15 turns of research now because our former goal was Rocketry, which I got from Team Sirius 2 turns before it was done. I hope this suggestion can be reconsidered into banning the Manhattan Project.

Please come back to me on this as soon as possible because of the diplomatic implications going on if Team Q stalls the decision here, and also because I would hate losing more research beakers to nothing.

So Q wants to continue towards Fission, basically claiming they want nuclear plants. They suggest avoiding Manhattan Project instead.

My instinct is to reject this idea, as once Fission is teched, any team could just build Manhattan all the way up to 1 turn, and the switch to something else. This would allow them to quickly build Manhattan and then immediately rush-buy a bunch of nukes.

 

[damnrunner]

How long will it take to get to the UN. I dont think they will lose many beakers in the long run if they are asked to hold off on it.

Other option is we let them get it but not trade it and the agree to turn off espinoange to ensure that there cities can be observed not to be building Manhattan.

I don't think letting all teams have fission would be practical. Way too tempting to cheat.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I agree. I need to try and respond to Caledorn today. I am trying to think of my talking points for the letter. Please let me know if I miss anything...

1. Sorry I advised you to get Fission, but I only said that because you had already selected it, so I was just telling you no one else was teching it

2. Sorry you spent 2 turns researching Fission. However this is not wasted beakers, because as soon as the UN resolution passes, you could go right back to Fission without any beaker loss.

3. The problem with banning Manhattan project, is that Teams could still build it covertly, by boosting espy and thus masking their cities. Once everyone has Fission, there is too great of a risk that Manhattan might be built in spite of the proposed ban.

4. Sorry you lost the beakers put into Rocketry. I did not notice until it was too late, and I assumed you were trying to race with Sirius for the Aluminum corporation, so I did not say anything about it. If you had asked us beforehand I could have told you that you were duplicating research.

5. You should not think of the turns you spent on Rocketry as being included with the 2 turns you spent on Fission. Rocketry is not on the tech path to Fission so turns spent on one don't have anything to do with the other.

6. In the ETTT, you never "waste" turns teching, because we all share tech. Since we all share tech there is no "tech-race" and therefore no "wasted" turns. If teams duplicate research, it means we all get tech a few turns slower but there is absolutely no harm in that, because we are all at peace. This is very different from when rival alliances are racing to get a tech advantage. Then every turn counts and you have to avoid waste, but in the current situation there is no rush and there is no race, so wasted turns don't matter.

7. Slower teching benefits Q the most, because Q has the most infrastructure to build, and the most catching up to do. The longer we put off a space race, the better Q's chances are, so you should not be worried about "wasted" teching.

8. Nuclear Plants are not necessary. You can already build coal plants which do the same thing. We have a SushiCo exec on the way which will reach Q lands next turn. On this seafood-heavy map SushiCo will give you more than enough food to overcome any unhealthiness from Coal Plants. All we ask is that you do not give SushiCo to Sirius or CDZ.

9. Nuclear plants have a high meltdown rate. I have had a meltdown everytime I use nuclear plants, which is why I stopped using them.

10. If you must have Nuclear plants, please put them off until after the UN resolution. Maybe prioritize getting the tech for UN as a tech goal?

11. Sirius has already agreed not to tech Fission and approve the UN ban on nukes

 

[2metraninja]

All is fine. I cant think of another thing to point out.

Only maybe I did gifted (or generously outright found a branch ) a Sid's sushi executive in one Q city last turn when loged in to check the nuclear safety.

The city which we used to steal techs from Sirius - now it is called Orion, is still gonna give us 4 times cheaper techs stealing. Should we move few spies there just in case? What we will explain to Q if some of those spies get caught?

 

[Sommerswerd]

Only maybe I did gifted (or generously outright found a branch ) a Sid's sushi executive in one Q city last turn when loged in to check the nuclear safety.

The city which we used to steal techs from Sirius - now it is called Orion, is still gonna give us 4 times cheaper techs stealing. Should we move few spies there just in case? What we will explain to Q if some of those spies get caught?

I dont think now is yet the time to dust off our mighty spies

Let them get some well deserved rest for now as we dont want any getting caught. We will need them soon enough down the road. They only need to stay in their target cities for 5 turns.

And it is good that we gave Q Sushi Co. Now they have no cause to complain about using Coal-fire plants instead of Nuclear, and all the excuses for getting Fission are gone. Good riddance to the Nukes. What tech do we need for UN?

 

[Sommerswerd]

All is fine. I cant think of another thing to point out.

OK then, this is what I am sending Caledorn via PM:

Hey Caledorn,

Sorry I advised you to get Fission, but I only said that because you had already selected it, so I was just telling you no one else was teching it. So I am sorry you spent those 2 turns researching Fission. However this is not wasted beakers, because as soon as the UN resolution passes, you could go right back to Fission without any beaker loss. As you might have expected, we would really like to put off Fission until after the UN resolution banning nukes.

We can't go along with the idea about trying to ban Manhattan Project. The problem with banning Manhattan project, is that Teams could still build it covertly, by boosting espy and thus masking their cities. Once everyone has Fission, there is too great of a risk that Manhattan might be built in spite of the proposed ban.

Sorry you lost the beakers put into Rocketry. I did not notice you were teching it until it was too late, and even then, I just assumed you were trying to race with Sirius for the Aluminum corporation, so I did not say anything about it. If you had asked us beforehand I could have told you that you were duplicating research, but in any case, you should not think of the turns you spent on Rocketry as being included with the 2 turns you spent on Fission. Rocketry is not on the tech path to Fission so turns spent on one don't have anything to do with the other.

Remember that in the ETTT, you never "waste" turns teching, because we all share tech. Since we all share tech there is no "tech-race" and therefore no "wasted" turns. If teams duplicate research, it means we all get tech a few turns slower but there is absolutely no harm in that, because we are all at peace. This is very different from when rival alliances are racing to get a tech advantage. Then every turn counts and you have to avoid waste, but in the current situation there is no rush and there is no race, so wasted turns don't matter.

If you think about it, slower teching benefits Q the most, because Q has the most infrastructure to build, and the most catching up to do. The longer we put off a space race, the better Q's chances are, so you should not be worried about "wasted" teching.

Plus, TBH, Nuclear Plants are not necessary at all. You can already build coal plants which do the same thing. We have a SushiCo exec on the way which will reach Q lands next turn. You can spread Sushi Co and on this seafood-heavy map SushiCo will give you more than enough food to overcome any unhealthiness from Coal Plants. All we ask is that you do not give SushiCo to Sirius or CDZ.

Another thing worth mentioning. Nuclear plants have a high meltdown rate. I have had a meltdown everytime I use nuclear plants, which is why I stopped using them. But at a minimum, if you absolutely must have Nuclear plants, please put them off until after the UN resolution. Maybe prioritize getting the tech for UN as a tech goal?

The last thing, is that Sirius has already agreed not to tech Fission and they also approve of the UN ban on nukes, so although you may be right that it "benefits AMAZON the most" Sirius also sees that it is the best way to pursue a peaceful victory.

Talk to you soon,

Sommers

 

[Sommerswerd]

Got a reply PM from Q. They are going along with the General's proposal.

Hey again, Sommers

Aggravating the other ETTT members is simply not an option for Team Q. We accept the proposal, and will abide by it.

We will also accept your request that we do not spread Sushi Co to any of the other teams, of course.

Another thing worth mentioning, is there seems to be some growing cultural tension between Q and CDZ. How do we feel about what is going on around the Hoag cities? Do we leave it alone, or encourage it? A Q versus CDZ scenario could be potentially good for us, but it could also be bad.

 

[2metraninja]

They are going along with the General's proposal.

Beside it was my proposal, it was the will of the people of Amazon Planning and executing a preemptive nuclear strike to smash the 3 other teams at once would have been great responsibility, challenge and achievement for your general. Not to mention how fun and exciting this would have been. Yeah, the power can be arousing

TE]How do we feel about what is going on around the Hoag cities? Do we leave it alone, or encourage it? A Q versus CDZ scenario could be potentially good for us, but it could also be bad. [/QUOTE]From my experience the world power needs balance. Any turbulence or shifting in power is threatening the status quo, so it must be avoided. How this translates in our situation - I say if there is a cultural conflict and no one is wining - they are only spending there resources and their attention, then great! If someone starts to have the upper hand, we elegantly help the other.

 

[2metraninja]

Two other things about Q.

It surprised me pleasantly that Caledorn is judging and see the situation with the nukes and the superpowers correct. He said he knows this will benefit us most if the nukes are banned. This guys sees the bigger picture and definitely have potential.

But then I am wondering how frank he is when saying that a conventional attack at us is impossible? Does he believes this or he just want to raise artificial our self-confidence and put our suspicious at sleep?

 

[Sommerswerd]

Received this PM from Q:

Greetings Sommerswerd!

On behalf of Team Quatronia, I would like to ask if Team Amazon would be so kind as to allow us the control of the Great Wonders of the Eiffel Tower and Rock'n'Roll. We have set Continuum to build the Eiffel Tower, as this wonder would greatly help our cultural issues on Hoag. We would also like to build Rock'n'Roll in Pulsar Plateau to get an additional +50% culture output in said city.

I believe Team Amazon have a greater hammer output than Team Q have in our cities, so you could probably easily outproduce us on these two wonders if you want to. This is why I am asking this on behalf of our team, as we have a history of mutual cooperation.

If we get the Rock'n'Roll wonder we will of course provide you with the happiness resource, and if there is anything Team Amazon would like in return for this favour feel free to let us know and we will do our best to assist in return!

Best Regards,

So they are asking us to let them get 2 Wonders, Rock N Roll AND Eiffel Tower. How do we feel about this? Also, what can we ask for in return?

First off, I don't see how a cultural wonder in their capital does anything to help their situation on Hoag. Also, I am a little skeptical that they will be able to beat anyone in a Wonder race if they try to build a wonder in Pulsar Plateau, as that city has almost no tiles left.

So bottom line, I think they will lose one if not both Wonders. However, if we are not going for those wonders anyway, we could extract some great conditions from them in exchange. Maybe something like they agree not to run anymore espionage on us for the rest of the game.

Pity though, Our CHA trait has great synergy with Eiffel Tower

 

[2metraninja]

So they are asking us to let them get 2 Wonders, Rock N Roll AND Eiffel Tower. How do we feel about this? Also, what can we ask for in return?

They are asking kindly, and I appreciate this.

First off, I don't see how a cultural wonder in their capital does anything to help their situation on Hoag.

I think it is because it provides free broadcast tower in each city, which generates culture. Not much, but still..

I am a little skeptical that they will be able to beat anyone in a Wonder race if they try to build a wonder in Pulsar Plateau

Rushbuying it?

if we are not going for those wonders anyway, we could extract some great conditions from them in exchange.

Right

Maybe something like they agree not to run anymore espionage on us for the rest of the game.

I dont know if anyone in his mind woyld ever agree on such term.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I dont know if anyone in his mind woyld ever agree on such term.

Yes it would be a game breaker for us if they agree to this. So I will go ahead and ask since losing two Wonders we can claim easily is a benefit that we lose for the rest of the game.

It is only fair that in return they should lose something for the rest of the game

 

[nabaxo]

We don't have to agree to both wonders, maybe we can try to negotiate to keep the Eiffel Tower?

 

[2metraninja]

My understanding is either we give them all for free and without conditions, or we dont give them $hit

Setting someone's mind that he is in debt to you and he have to be grateful to you worths more than a mere espionage condition. OK, they may agree if they want those wonders badly, but they will remember only that we made a harsh demand, not a nice gesture letting them claim those wonders.