Emp. Players: Let's Try Deity!

[Norton II]

I was actually thinking of taking the third turnset, but I'll take this one if no one else does by 2:30 this afternoon. That's assuming I'm in, and also assuming a batting order isn't established by then.

 

[Norton II]

Got it. I'll start the set either tonight after work or tomorrow. A question for everyone before I begin: Istanbul's bulding a granary right now (no shields committed yet), which I'd like to switch to a settler to send 1 S of the floodplain wheat so as to get a second settler factory started as soon as possible. Usually, if I see another good settler pump location near the start, I get a settler out first and then build a granary in the capital; this seems to lead to faster expansion overall. Before I do that, though, I'd like everyone else's thoughts on this since these early moves are so crucial.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Sounds fine to me.

 

[nerovats]

Don't thnk 3 SF will be neccesary as the AI is likely to expand fast. The capitol and the wheat should do, or replace the wheat if a better location is found.

 

[Norton II]

Don't thnk 3 SF will be neccesary as the AI is likely to expand fast. The capitol and the wheat should do, or replace the wheat if a better location is found.

Right. If I find something better to the south, I'll send the settler there instead. I don't think that's going to happen, though, so one settler to the flood plain wheat, and then the granary.

 

[Norton II]

I finshed my turnset just now. Short version: things went reasonably well, but this isn't going to be easy. Here's the save: View attachment Osman of the Ottomans, 2550 BC.SAV
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Preflight: switch Istanbul to settler; settler in 30, growth in 1
IBT: Istanbul grows to 2, growth in 5, settler in 9
Turn 21:
-lux to 10%, IW in 22, breaking even
-southern warrior 1S to hill, northern warrior 1NE to plains
IBT: barb warrior (Seljuk) appears in the north; worker finishes road
22:
-northern warrior 1E to gold mountain, discovers England; southern warrior 1W to forest
-worker 1E to plains, will start road toward FP wheat next turn. Note: When I did this, I thought this was a mistake, but then I realized another worker would be ready in 2 from Edrine to mine the BG, so maybe it wasn't.
-contact England: We're up masonry! They're up alpha and warrior code. Can trade masonry for WC and 3 gold or a worker and 10 gold. After lowering the slider, I discover that alpha would cost us masonry and 8 gpt. Referring to The Three Questions, we can afford WC but don't need it and can't trade it (every AI almost certainly has it already, and we only know England so far); we need alpha but can't afford it and might not be able to trade it by the time we meet another civ; and I'm not going to trade a tech just to get a slave worker. Conclusion: no trades right now.
-take slider back up to 90
IBT: English warrior attacks barb on mountain and dies! Never seen that happen on deity before. Another English warrior appears.
23: southern warrior 1W to hill; northern warrior 1 NE to mountain, reveals a stack of 3 English warriors (not good, but expected on deity). I didn't attack the barb becasue we'll have another warrior from Edrine before the barb can get close enough to hurt us.
IBT: English warrior stack moves 1W to plains, lone warrior moves 1SW to plains, barb fortifies. Looks like the barb won't be an issue after all.
-Edrine worker->warrior (4); pop down to 1, growth in 10. There was some shield wastage involved in continuing with the worker build, but I thought it better to get the worker out sooner.
24: new worker to BG 1 N of Istanbul; southern warrior 1S to mountain, reveals hut; northern warrior 1NE to mountain
IBT: England founds Hastings at river bend 1NE of sugar; English warrior kills fortified barb, other 2 move 1NW to forest, lone warrior moves 1 S to hill; first worker finishes road
25: southern warrior 1W to hill, avoiding hut; northern warrior 1N to mountain in English territory; first worker 1NE to plains, second worker starts mine
IBT: England asks us to leave; we apologize and promise to leave (not just yet, fellas); English warriors move into fog; Istanbul grows to 3, growth in 7
26: norhtern warrior 1N to hill, southern warrior 1S to jungle, reveals barb camp on hill 2S, 3 warriors (Hurrian); lux to 30, IW in 21, breaking even
IBT: English warrior moves S along road near London
27: northern warrior 1N to hill; southern warrior 1SW to jungle
IBT: England says "remove or declare"; we...DECLARE!! We leave; don't want this to be the shortest SG in the history of SGs. Warrior transported to other side of England. Istanbul: settler->granary (20), pop down to 1, growth in 7; Edrine: warrior->warrior (4)
28: settler moves 3 NE along road; new warrior from Edrine follows settler; southern warrior 1SW to jungle, northern warrior 1NW to hill revealing English settler pair; first worker moves back to Istanbul; sci to 100, IW in 17, breaking even; move citizen in Istanbul to wheat, granary in 60, growth in 4
IBT: English settler pair moves off into darkness; 2 barb warriors leave camp, approach southern warrior; second worker finishes mine
29: settler 1NE to plains, will found city next turn; northern warrior 1N to hill, southern warrior fortifies in preparation for barb attack; first worker 1S to Istanbul, second worker 1S to BG; new warrior joins settler
IBT: barbs attack southern warrior--1st does 1 damage and dies, 2nd takes 1 damage and wins; 2 English warriors reappear, headed for hut in eastern jungle
30: settler founds Bursa--growth in 5, worker in 10; warrior in Bursa fortifies; northern warrior 1NE to mountain; first worker 1S to BG, 2nd worker starts road
---------------------------------------------------------
Research: science at max, IW in 12, breaking even
vs. England: up masonry, down alpha, wheel, and WC; can trade masonry, 5 gpt, and 15 gold for wheel; other trades mentioned earlier still good (except for the worker
Military:
-2 workers
-2 warriors
-weak vs. England (of course)
Cities:
-Istanbul (1): granary in 58, growth in 2
-Edrine (1): warrior in 2, growth in 4
-Bursa (1): worker in 10, growth in 5
England appears to have 4 cities to our 3.
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As mentioned before, things went pretty well; the only real reverse was losing the southern warrior to barbs, but we'll have another one soon. England's expanding pretty fast, though, and they might be out of room in the north, so I'm not sure how much farther we can expand before they take all the good land.
Here's the mighty Ottoman Empire:

And here's England:

 

[Lkysam]

Well done. If England is up against the coast, it is at least possible that they don't know any other civs yet. But even if this is the case we should trade masonry soon methinks, even if we don't get much for it.

 

[Ansar]

lurker's comment: Why is England not on the coast...?

 

[Norton II]

Well done. If England is up against the coast, it is at least possible that they don't know any other civs yet. But even if this is the case we should trade masonry soon methinks, even if we don't get much for it.

Sounds good to me. I don't think England has started on masonry yet since it's worth the same as it was wort earlier. Either that or they haven't invested any beakers in it. But if I had to guess, they're researching either that or IW right now. Should we just trade masonry for WC and 3 gold, or should we lower the slider and get the wheel instead? IMHO alpha's way too expensive.

lurker's comment: Why is England not on the coast...?

I think seafaring civs almost always start on the coast, but that apparently didn't happen here. I'm not sure what the chances are of a seafaring civ not starting on the coast, but they're pretty small.

 

[Lkysam]

lurker's comment: Why is England not on the coast...?

I used a bad choice of words, I meant that if they were on the coast and the continent does not extend beyond them to the north.

 

[Norton II]

I used a bad choice of words, I meant that if they were on the coast and the continent does not extend beyond them to the north.

I think he was actually asking why London wasn't a coastal city, since seafaring civs almost always start on the coast and the AI never moves its settler before founding the first city (unless it's on terrain that can't be settled, of course). So this was a rare instance of a seafaring civ not starting on the coast.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

That is very rare. I've never seen that before. I once saw a seafaring civ's capitol in an ice bound seaside town

 

[Empiremaker]

I got it. Looking at the last roster, I'm up.

 

[Lkysam]

London is one square away from the sea, I'm betting that Izzy moved her settler before founding it. We can check the replay once the game is over.

 

[Norton II]

London is one square away from the sea, I'm betting that Izzy moved her settler before founding it. We can check the replay once the game is over.

Sure about that? I've never seen an AI move their starting settler, but the replay will be interesting.
@Empiremaker: Good luck.

 

[Empiremaker]

0- Masonry for WC and 1 gold with england

1- Istanbul is unhappy, move warrior from Edrine there. Lux tax to 10.

2- zzz

3- Bursa completes worker, move it to wheat. Why is Ask for Build Orders after Unit Construction Pref not turned on??

IBT- England forces move out of Territory. England has CB.

4- zzz

5- Edrine Archer to Settler

6- IW to Alpha

7- See cattle on coast 3 NE of Istanbul.

8- Lux tax to 30.

9- zzz

10- Forest chopped near Bursa

11- Istanbul finishes granary, start on settler in 5.

Archer dies attacking barb.

12- Bursa completes granary

Korea comletes the Colossus.

13- Edrine starts on Granary.

14- zzz

15- zzz

16- Istanbul completes Settler -> Settler

IBT- English start Oracle

17- See Barb Horseman

Found Iznik

18- Found Uskudar

Found Izmit

19- Kill Barb Horseman

20- zzz

Notes:

England is twice our size. When they run out of room to settle, we need to prepare for war.

Explore to the south.

Fill in some terrirory at distance 3. CXXC

The save

 

[vmxa]

Sure about that? I've never seen an AI move their starting settler, but the replay will be interesting.
@Empiremaker: Good luck.

Yes they do. I have seen several games where they started on a mountain tile. You can see a replay in CPRsuites viewer anytime.

 

[Norton II]

Yes they do. I have seen several games where they started on a mountain tile. You can see a replay in CPRsuites viewer anytime.

They'd have to move it in that case, or if they started on a volcano or marsh tile, but I don't think that happened here; the only mountain on the coast is two tiles away--would the AI move their settler two tiles if it wasn't absolutely necessary?

@Empiremaker: I downloaded the save but couldn't open it. Also, you said Bursa completed a granary, but in your screenshot it's still being built. Looks like you're building one in Edrine, too; given that Edrine's not going to be a settler factory, do you think it's worth the 60 shields? Good set overall, though; looks like we've got six cities to England's eight, and we should be able to get the iron without a problem.

For some reason, I thought only Lkysam's first set was supposed to be 20 turns, but it seems I misunderstood. Should I play 20 in my next set, or maybe 15 in my next two? Or would it be better just not to worry about it?

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I think I'm up next. It appears we need to start thinking about a war with England here in the next 30 turns or so.

Thanks EM for the good passdown. I have it. I will play this evening. Please weight on long term strategy today.

 

[Empiremaker]

What error message did you get when you tried to open the save?

I think I meant that Bursa started the granary.