England

[pineappledan]

@Gazebo, what do you plan to do with the Steam mill? Will you be deleting it from the code entirely, or will you simply remove the BuildingClassOverride? If I am going to re-add the building via 4UC, I need to know how much of the existing code will still be there next version, if I need to copy over the art assets/code, etc, or if I simply need to re-activate code that you will leave in there.

 

[Gazebo]

@Gazebo, what do you plan to do with the Steam mill? Will you be deleting it from the code entirely, or will you simply remove the BuildingClassOverride? If I am going to re-add the building via 4UC, I need to know how much of the existing code will still be there next version, if I need to copy over the art assets/code, etc, or if I simply need to re-activate code that you will leave in there.

I've purged it from the data slates. Omnissaiah be praised.

(The art asset will remain in the VP library tho).

G

 

[pineappledan]

Good. I'll migrate all the code to 4UC then. Thanks for retaining the icon; that's the hardest part

I'm with Enrico re: the balance between consistent and inconsistent yields. The wonder has very few consistent bonuses, and very large bonus rewards, tied to actions which are difficult to time or predict. I think moving the dial a little more towards consistent bonuses would be a good thing.

Edit: @Gazebo, I guess you will have a writing credit for 4UC now. Do you know off-hand who made the steam mill icon? I need to add him/her to the credits for 4UC as well.

 

[Gothic_Empire]

I suppose I disagree that spy actions are difficult to predict, since there's a timer stating when it will be completed. Or are we talking about something else?

 

[BiteInTheMark]

I think the change was a bad idea. On the one side, Iam able to steal a tech in 7-9 turns in early game. You can steal more techs in 50 turns than Ethiopia is able to get by its UA in the whole game.
On the other side, the ability to get ields for killing enemy spies is kinda useless, if nobody is able to spy on you.

 

[Gazebo]

Good. I'll migrate all the code to 4UC then. Thanks for retaining the icon; that's the hardest part

I'm with Enrico re: the balance between consistent and inconsistent yields. The wonder has very few consistent bonuses, and very large bonus rewards, tied to actions which are difficult to time or predict. I think moving the dial a little more towards consistent bonuses would be a good thing.

Edit: @Gazebo, I guess you will have a writing credit for 4UC now. Do you know off-hand who made the steam mill icon? I need to add him/her to the credits for 4UC as well.

Re: Edit, it was @Wodhann, many moons ago, modifying an icon that I made originally.

G

 

[Gothic_Empire]

England's spy game on large and huge maps is insane, wow.

 

[Minh Le]

I think the change was a bad idea. On the one side, Iam able to steal a tech in 7-9 turns in early game. You can steal more techs in 50 turns than Ethiopia is able to get by its UA in the whole game.
On the other side, the ability to get ields for killing enemy spies is kinda useless, if nobody is able to spy on you.

Compare England to Ethiopia doesnt make any sense because their kits are totally different. England can steal a lot of techs early game but those are cheap tech that you havent researched. Ethiopia on the other hand have a very strong religion advantage and can time to get very expensive tech to slingshot into the next era.
The UB is very cool with it alone I dont have to use counter spy at all, all my spies are on offensive and rigging election give very nice amount of science and gold, also it guarantee alliance with some city states so I dont need to use gold/hammer on diplomat units, so I can have a stronger army. England is much stronger and more interesting to play now.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

Compare England to Ethiopia doesnt make any sense because their kits are totally different. England can steal a lot of techs early game but those are cheap tech that you havent researched. Ethiopia on the other hand have a very strong religion advantage and can time to get very expensive tech to slingshot into the next era.
The UB is very cool with it alone I dont have to use counter spy at all, all my spies are on offensive and rigging election give very nice amount of science and gold, also it guarantee alliance with some city states so I dont need to use gold/hammer on diplomat units, so I can have a stronger army. England is much stronger and more interesting to play now.

England can steal techs the whole game. Not only early, but early, it goes so extreme fast. Especially early on, those fast free techs can give a great advantage. Unlocking faster necessary improvements, archer, fishing boats and spearman, this is extremely helpful.

I agree with the religious point, but it's only 3-5 faith per city, it's good to found, but nothing special for late game like Byzantium have. And which super expensive tech do you want to unlock with Ethiopia? You found your religion in classical and improve it in medieval, finishing the medieval tree happen in renaissance or early industrial. Only finishing the industrial tree can give an expensive tech, afterwards you are grinding the ideology tenets.
And all the techs you gain by your UA can be stolen from England. Except the point you can found earlier and with higher chance, Ethiopia is far inferior to England technology wise.

 

[CrazyG]

England can steal techs the whole game. Not only early, but early, it goes so extreme fast. Especially early on, those fast free techs can give a great advantage. Unlocking faster necessary improvements, archer, fishing boats and spearman, this is extremely helpful.

I agree with the religious point, but it's only 3-5 faith per city, it's good to found, but nothing special for late game like Byzantium have. And which super expensive tech do you want to unlock with Ethiopia? You found your religion in classical and improve it in medieval, finishing the medieval tree happen in renaissance or early industrial. Only finishing the industrial tree can give an expensive tech, afterwards you are grinding the ideology tenets.
And all the techs you gain by your UA can be stolen from England. Except the point you can found earlier and with higher chance, Ethiopia is far inferior to England technology wise.

"Only 3 to 5 faith per city". Lol what?

 

[Minh Le]

England can steal techs the whole game. Not only early, but early, it goes so extreme fast. Especially early on, those fast free techs can give a great advantage. Unlocking faster necessary improvements, archer, fishing boats and spearman, this is extremely helpful.

I agree with the religious point, but it's only 3-5 faith per city, it's good to found, but nothing special for late game like Byzantium have. And which super expensive tech do you want to unlock with Ethiopia? You found your religion in classical and improve it in medieval, finishing the medieval tree happen in renaissance or early industrial. Only finishing the industrial tree can give an expensive tech, afterwards you are grinding the ideology tenets.
And all the techs you gain by your UA can be stolen from England. Except the point you can found earlier and with higher chance, Ethiopia is far inferior to England technology wise.

No Ethiopia isnt inferior to England, at least tech wise. Unless youre playing England with Ethiopia as AI so you can steal its techs.
And remember its not always that how many techs you have is important, its you are the first who discovered the tech.

 

[Gazebo]

No Ethiopia isnt inferior to England, at least tech wise. Unless youre playing England with Ethiopia as AI so you can steal its techs.
And remember its not always that how many techs you have is important, its you are the first who discovered the tech.

Also Ethiopia doesn’t piss of its neighbors with spies like England. Ethiopia is usually the world’s friend which makes the mid-late game easier to manage on the world stage.

 

[Gothic_Empire]

Can confirm. Have a war on three fronts in my current game. .__.

 

[Minh Le]

Can confirm. Have a war on three fronts in my current game. .__.

You should crush them with Ship of the OPness.

 

[Gothic_Empire]

if I could find a way to carry the bastards inland, that'd be swell.

 

[pineappledan]

You should get 4UC goin and crush them with bows of the OPness

 

[Gothic_Empire]

It's fine, my machine-guns have range three now. And I'm beating him to airplanes. I didn't PLAN on conquering the world, but if I don't, the other human in the game (playing Austria) is going to win via world congress.

 

[shangela]

I think the changes are great overall, but I think it's become a bit too trivial to achieve a diplomatic victory/dominate city states. Mid-game, it only takes a few turns to send a level spy to a city state and click coup to get an instant ally and a big yield from white tower, not to mention the yields if you decide to sit and rig election. It's not hard with to get a bunch of spies fairly early, so the yields/coups get ridiculous even without significant investment. The ~100% coup chance from Freedom seals the deal.

Maybe others have had different experiences? I think it could be beneficial to lower white tower yields for city state actions.

 

[Minh Le]

I think the changes are great overall, but I think it's become a bit too trivial to achieve a diplomatic victory/dominate city states. Mid-game, it only takes a few turns to send a level spy to a city state and click coup to get an instant ally and a big yield from white tower, not to mention the yields if you decide to sit and rig election. It's not hard with to get a bunch of spies fairly early, so the yields/coups get ridiculous even without significant investment. The ~100% coup chance from Freedom seals the deal.

Maybe others have had different experiences? I think it could be beneficial to lower white tower yields for city state actions.

Coup chance if you take Freedom is high for every civ, not only England, and its very late into the game so getting ~500 science/gold every 20 turns is not that significant. Rigging election happen every 14 turns, I find that stealing great works is even more efficient because I can steal one every 9 turns while still doing advance actions (I can steal ~5k gold several times placing my spies in the leading civ, those gold is translated into diplomat units, so I have alliance with literally all of the city states, no where to coup ). Earlier its a great source of science/gold though. But I find the white tower/ spies are most useful in earlier eras, when you can steal techs, and 300 science/gold in renaissance is much more impactful than 500 in modern era.

 

[Gothic_Empire]

How can you tell what a good city will be to try to steal great works from?