England

[Atlas627]

I really don't want more ways to punish them for getting landlocked (which seems to happen more often than not)

I do however feel like the Steam mill should be brought back up to old levels, it really wasn't better than other unique buildings from the same era.

I suppose that's fair. I think of their entire set of uniques as the Steam Mill most of the time anyway because I don't actually think their naval bonuses are that special (Frigates are super powerful anyway, +2 movement doesn't actually do much because early game you're constrained to coasts and lategame ships have high base movement anyway, and everyone gets more spies so +1 is meh), so I would prefer to give them some actual naval bonuses that affect early game.

But a stronger Steam Mill might be enough too. I doubt it will make me want to play them, but at least its better.

 

[Sun Pope]

I always got the impression that the UA and UU we're a dual purpose combo: one purpose was to attack coastal cities and the enemy's navy, while the other was to better defend founded/captured cities in far away lands. With the extra movement, your navy can scoot around the map if a certain "colony" got attacked fairly quickly. Given that it's named "sun never sets" I always assumed their schtick was to conquer/found colonies all across the map and reap the benefits for the homeland, but in CBP they just feel like a war civ, even on ideal England maps like archipelago.

If people want to move them more towards a unique playstyle, perhaps we could give them some sort of incentve to create wide empires over seas, or colonies if you will. Thoughts?

 

[Funak]

If people want to move them more towards a unique playstyle, perhaps we could give them some sort of incentve to create wide empires over seas, or colonies if you will. Thoughts?

Or we could just change the name of the UA, less work

 

[Sun Pope]

Just changing the name wouldn't satify people who actually want to move them towards a more unique playstyle, which is what I'm trying to inquire about.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I'm not a big England fan. An earlier UB would appeal to me. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Gazebo]

Just changing the name wouldn't satify people who actually want to move them towards a more unique playstyle, which is what I'm trying to inquire about.

I think England is in a good spot right now. No one can really challenge them at sea in terms of raw power. And, once some more under-the-hood changes are finalized, the AI should get even better than they are now.

G

 

[Funak]

Just changing the name wouldn't satify people who actually want to move them towards a more unique playstyle, which is what I'm trying to inquire about.

I'm usually not against unique playstyles, but you can't really expect every civ to have one.

 

[Atlas627]

I'm usually not against unique playstyles, but you can't really expect every civ to have one.

Exactly. It would be cool to have a far-flung naval empire civ, but we kinda already do: Venice. Someone has to be generic flexible naval powerhouse, and that's England.

 

[Sun Pope]

Well thats why I asked if people wanted to move them to be more unique instead of suggesting we do. I'm just providing some options, I think England is okay as it is. Theyre basically water ottomans, but that's not a bad thing

 

[Gazebo]

Well thats why I asked if people wanted to move them to be more unique instead of suggesting we do. I'm just providing some options, I think England is okay as it is. Theyre basically water ottomans, but that's not a bad thing

Watermans.

G

 

[Funak]

Watermans.

Was going to look for a picture of a sexy floating ottoman(furniture), but google first page didn't have any results so you'll just have to imagine it.

 

[Sun Pope]

Damn, I usually have a much higher awareness of puns, but you guys beat me. I've always said I'd like to see a furniture store owned by a young Turkish couple named "The Ottoman Empire"

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Oh, that's a pun? It probably makes more sense in a non-rhotic accent.

 

[glaivemaster]

Not sure if I'm happy about England having a spy from Turn 1. I like the idea of an early spy for Elizabeth, but in my most recent game I discovered her on turn 2. Cue 7 continuous turns of espionage action in my capital: Sabotage production - steal 3 science (of my 7/turn) 5 turns in a row - steal 44 gold.

I accept that Elizabeth is getting some benefit out of this, but I have literally no defense against this. That early in the game, I can't just go and kill her, and there's nothing for spy defense. This is just going to crush whoever Elizabeth's starting neighbour is before they even get a chance to get going.

Perhaps move the spy to unlock at Writing, or the Classical Era in general? Currently the early game negative for starting next to Elizabeth is too severe.

 

[IcyAngel]

Seven turns of continuous advanced espionage action would be quite extraordinary. Sounds like bad luck to me, not bad balance. I've played England twice since the new patch, and I'd steal resources/kill GP two or three times per espionage cycle at best - meaning every 10ish turns or so.

It's the same level of annoyance as having barbs punctually assaulting your cities (except you cannot deal with it obviously).

 

[Gazebo]

Not sure if I'm happy about England having a spy from Turn 1. I like the idea of an early spy for Elizabeth, but in my most recent game I discovered her on turn 2. Cue 7 continuous turns of espionage action in my capital: Sabotage production - steal 3 science (of my 7/turn) 5 turns in a row - steal 44 gold.

I accept that Elizabeth is getting some benefit out of this, but I have literally no defense against this. That early in the game, I can't just go and kill her, and there's nothing for spy defense. This is just going to crush whoever Elizabeth's starting neighbour is before they even get a chance to get going.

Perhaps move the spy to unlock at Writing, or the Classical Era in general? Currently the early game negative for starting next to Elizabeth is too severe.

That's techinically impossible, as there's a cooldown between advanced actions. I'll check the cooldowns.

G

 

[ExpiredReign]

I tried a game as England and in the first few turns I was getting constant warnings about espionage in London! Now that's hard to understand. Admittedly it's just a notification spam issue, no actual spying against England was done, but still something to look at.

 

[Funak]

I tried a game as England and in the first few turns I was getting constant warnings about espionage in London! Now that's hard to understand. Admittedly it's just a notification spam issue, no actual spying against England was done, but still something to look at.

You get that as all civs always, no matter which civ is in the game. Probably a bug and it has been reported already.

 

[ExpiredReign]

You get that as all civs always, no matter which civ is in the game. Probably a bug and it has been reported already.

I've not noticed the espionage warnings before until someone has entered the correct era. Only noticed this now since it happened in the Ancient era. That's not to say they didn't show up before, only that I didn't notice them.

 

[glaivemaster]

That's techinically impossible, as there's a cooldown between advanced actions. I'll check the cooldowns.

G

Had another game where I met England early, and had a similar issue. 3-4 turns in a row they stole research (as in, taking beakers, not actual techs) from my capital.

Didn't feel as punitive this time, since they I met them slightly later (around turn 15 maybe) and so had a chance to get at least some stuff going, but it definitely was happening on sequential turns.

I'll try and get a save for you next time, didn't realise it might be a bug.