I have no idea if you actually checked this or not, but there is definitely still not a cooldown on their advanced actions, England stole gold from my capital 6 turns in a row right after I met them on turn 3.
England
- Thread starter Funak
- Start date
I have no idea if you actually checked this or not, but there is definitely still not a cooldown on their advanced actions, England stole gold from my capital 6 turns in a row right after I met them on turn 3.
Depends on how much they stole. The cooldown triggers based on the value of the event.
G
Oh, it was pennies, I mean it was turn 4-10, they stole like 5-6 gold per turn, which is still around 10% of my treasury.
I'm just not a fan of it triggering every turn, it pretty much kills my ability to ever gain any gold and there isn't any form of counterplay to it.
glaivemaster
Prince
Yeah, I'm still not a fan of the English starting with a spy from turn 1. It arbitrarily punishes the first civ they meet with absolutely no option to counter it.
From the Classical era means you've had a chance to build at least some infrastructure, England has probably met multiple people, and war becomes an option if they won't leave you alone. From the beginning of the game, though, war can't be an option if England's spy keeps you turns and turns behind.
From the Classical era means you've had a chance to build at least some infrastructure, England has probably met multiple people, and war becomes an option if they won't leave you alone. From the beginning of the game, though, war can't be an option if England's spy keeps you turns and turns behind.
Enrico Swagolo
Deity
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2013
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- 2,387
I agree, especially since Elizabeth is a bit like a pitbull - once she holds something in her teeth, she never lets go. If you meet her first, she won't stop spying on you (unless you ask, which sometimes makes her go away but sometimes she ignores) and will become your worst nightmare, destroying your everything.
I think it'd be better if instead of that, English got 1 bonus spy for every finished social policy tree. Stronger in the long run, not annoying as all hells early on, just better.
Gothic_Empire
AKA, Ramen Empire
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I think this would peter off fairly quickly and relegate her to rigging a lot of elections, or using a lot of diplomats, yeah? Eventually she'll have stolen tech from everyone. Or do advanced spy actions in a city you can't steal tech from still give you boosts to gold / science? Randomly setting back an AI's production / great people isn't super entertaining, since you can only deny a building / wonder / GP at random.
It also punishes her in a counter-intuitive way for not zerging through culture buildings at the start of the game.
What if it was just an extra spy every era, starting at classical instead of ancient?
I'm just going to slow pre-renaissance actions a bit to compensate. The problem is that the spy system uses some crunchy numbers to achieve spy power based on tech value, and early-game techs are just too cheap.
The early spy is annoying, but it gives Elizabeth a powerful role that England really lacked in the vanilla game.
G
Gothic_Empire
AKA, Ramen Empire
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- 1,502
I like Elizabeth with the new Perfidious Albion UA. I like the UA because it prompted me to go down a research hole and learn a bit about anti-Anglo politics and some English history, and fits really well into the aspect of Civ that promotes historical learning.
As a player, I'd really hate to lose the new ancient-era spy.
As a player against England, the fact that it has no counter play is genuinely galling. At the end of the day, the play of this specific UA highlights, in my opinion, why this spy system was maybe not the best way Firaxis could have gone about designing an espionage system. It also makes Elizabeth veer into the list of Kill-on-Sight civs in the early game, if she's targeting you and being annoysome.
Oh.
So I guess the counter-play is burning her to the ground.
As a player, I'd really hate to lose the new ancient-era spy.
As a player against England, the fact that it has no counter play is genuinely galling. At the end of the day, the play of this specific UA highlights, in my opinion, why this spy system was maybe not the best way Firaxis could have gone about designing an espionage system. It also makes Elizabeth veer into the list of Kill-on-Sight civs in the early game, if she's targeting you and being annoysome.
Oh.
So I guess the counter-play is burning her to the ground.
Der_Zorn_gottes
King
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2003
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- 774
As long as there is no other spy in the city, can an enemy spy ever be killed/detected?
Qualanqui
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2013
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- 56
What about the UU going melee and captures enemy ship on victory, or change it to a Fire Ship which instantly destroys enemy ships but also dies itself.
Just imagine that; dum de dum I'm going to roll my shiny new fleet over to England and mess some sh!t up, oh look some ships are coming to meet me, Oh my god! My shiny new fleet are now burning hulks slipping beneath the waves! Argghh why god, whyyyy!!! Hahaha it would be insane.
Anyway I also think the steam mill should add hammer/s to all tiles worked by the city which may be a bit OP but it's a UB so, meh?
As for UA maybe drop the spies and add sea trade route distance or extra trade routes (island nation has to survive on trade) or maybe some kind of wide civ bonuses or bonuses for puppeted cities (commonwealth, far flung empire).
I like seafaring races and England was always a solid choice in previous civs but as it is is a bit confused so definitely worth a touch up I reckon.
Just imagine that; dum de dum I'm going to roll my shiny new fleet over to England and mess some sh!t up, oh look some ships are coming to meet me, Oh my god! My shiny new fleet are now burning hulks slipping beneath the waves! Argghh why god, whyyyy!!! Hahaha it would be insane.
Anyway I also think the steam mill should add hammer/s to all tiles worked by the city which may be a bit OP but it's a UB so, meh?
As for UA maybe drop the spies and add sea trade route distance or extra trade routes (island nation has to survive on trade) or maybe some kind of wide civ bonuses or bonuses for puppeted cities (commonwealth, far flung empire).
I like seafaring races and England was always a solid choice in previous civs but as it is is a bit confused so definitely worth a touch up I reckon.
Gokudo01
Emperor
I think England is fine as it stands. As England, it's an unique feeling. You can piggyback on the runaway civs, scouting is mandatory to find the right nation to spy, you don't want to spy on your neighbour unless you want the War and your powerspike is really late ( Russia and England have got the latest UB )
And against it, you have to change your playstyle because you can't play as you use to : You need to adapt,for example, reduce your dependence to one city/your capital or get ride of england ( which is a late-game nation )
I like England, and I'd rather play against England than brazil or Poland.
And against it, you have to change your playstyle because you can't play as you use to : You need to adapt,for example, reduce your dependence to one city/your capital or get ride of england ( which is a late-game nation )
I like England, and I'd rather play against England than brazil or Poland.
jma22tb
Prince
Honestly, to me England is one of the better diplomacy choices because of the spy. You can start rigging elections as soon as you meet a city-state. That's pretty interesting.
England is in a good place right now, not confused at all. She's got a fun mechanic that no one else has until far into a game, and she can project her power along the coastlines of the world.
G
Nah. The period between elections is too long - your influence will drop to zero -or close to- before you can rig again.
It can maintain you afloat on influence if you also complete quests, but the validity of the tactic over placing the spy in a big sciency capital is questionable.
jma22tb
Prince
Rigging city-state elections is always a net gain.
Ah! you made me question my memories, so I did a test.
On Deity, quick: rigging a city-state grants 18 influence; 10 turn delay (accounting for turn zero). A hostile city-state's influence decays at -1.87 per turn, and others' at -1.25.
Therefore, a hostile city-state provides a net negative of -1.87, while other city-states provide a net positive of 6.2 (per election cycle).
Reaching 30 influence thus requires 50 turns (5 election cycles), and maintaining a floor of 30 influence requires 70 turns (7 election cycles). Reaching 60 influence requires 100 turns (10 election cycles), and maintaining a floor of 60 influence requires 120 turns (12 election cycles).
I'm not familiar with quick mode's timetable, but 120 turns to become allied to a city-state sounds like a lot. Of course, you'd ideally complete quests too - if your enemies don't beat you to them... Meanwhile, in a parallel universe, ten techs have been stolen from Korea's capital!
