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Enhanced Naval Warfare for Vox Populi

Discussion in 'Mods Repository' started by Infixo, Nov 24, 2017.

  1. Infixo

    Infixo Warlord

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    Version 1.6 posted 2018-11-19 - Range 2 back again

    Download from CivFanatics
    Download from Steam

    New naval units in late-game eras so in each one there's a complete set of specific units (no gaps):
    • Dreadnought - Modern Era, naval ranged.
    • (early) Destroyer - Modern Era, naval melee.
    • Attack Submarine - Atomic Era, submarines.
    • Missile Destroyer - Information Era, naval melee.
    • Supercarrier - Information Era, carriers.
    Additionaly:
    • Rocket Missile - Atomic Era, missile.
    Spoiler Unit models :
    ENW units pic1.jpg


    The complete unit lines:
    • Ironclad -> Destroyer -> Modern Destroyer (original Destroyer) -> Missile Destroyer
    • Cruiser -> Dreadnought -> Battleship -> Missile Cruiser (it is ranged back again)
    • Submarine (available earlier, but weaker) -> Attack Submarine -> Nuclear Submarine
    • Carrier -> Supercarrier
    • Rocket Missile -> Guided Missile
    Spoiler Unit parameters :
    ENW units stats.jpg


    Credits

    Models:
    • Dreadnought, Destroyer (Z-Class) - Danrell
    • Destroyer (Wickes-class) - snafusmith
    • Supercarrier - Wolfdog
    • Attack Submarine, Missile Cruiser - from Gedemon's RED Extended
    Icons:
    • Attack Submarine, Destroyer, Rocket Missile, Supercarrier - @Asterix Rage
    • Dreadnought, Missile Cruiser - Gedemon's RED Extended (by Urzahil, Hulfgar)
    • Supercarrier's Flag - Rapunzel's Nimitz-Class Supercarrier
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
    civplayer33, AlextheGr8, vyyt and 4 others like this.
  2. Infixo

    Infixo Warlord

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    Version 1.6, released 2018-11-19
    - Changed: Dreadnought and Missile Cruiser have Range 2 back again. Removed an obsolete promotion.
    - Added: A Lua script that prevents Carriers to be upgraded into Supercarriers if the player has reached the limit. Warning! It will start working with the next version of VP as it requires a bugfix in the core DLL.
    - Fixed: Description for Supercarrier.
    - Changed: There are 4 new icons, courtesy of Asterix Rage.

    Version 1.5, released 2018-01-28
    - Fixed: Polynesian UA

    Version 1.4, released 2018-01-23
    - Compatibility with Vox Populi 1-21
    - Dreadnought and Missile Cruiser start with Range promotion

    Version 1.3, released 2018-01-04
    - Compatibility with Vox Populi 1-3
    - Added Extra Maintenance Costs for Information Era units:
    - Missile Destroyer, Missile Cruiser and Nuclear Submarine are approx. 3x as costly as a standard unit,
    - Supercarrier approx. 10x.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
  3. Infixo

    Infixo Warlord

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    @Asterix Rage Thx :) I am going to put more details into first post soon.
    Actually, the thing with airplanes is that I dont see why fighters and bombers were made practically the same. Bombers were always long-range, more powerful planes, that is why I increased the range. And cost ofc.
    However keep in mind that It is not the main goal of the mod, so if people won’t like, i will remove those tweaks.
     
  4. Asterix Rage

    Asterix Rage Warlord

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    Thank you for the great job you've done, one again. This Modmod bring to VP the decent naval force it needed.

    First thought but not fully tested :

    --- Carrier ---
    - Combat 60 (same as Supercarrier!) Sound too much. 45 or 50 instead ?
    - Civilopedia strategy text says "automatically attack any air unit within 4 tiles". 2 or 3 tiles should be enough for a WWI carrier

    --- Supercarrier ---
    - Range 2. I like the fact than carrier and supercarrier get Ranged Combat. Nice to get XP. However, Range 1 seem enough for this kind of unit.
    - Carries up to 10 aircrafts. What? I know a Nimitz-class in real life carries a very large number of aircrafts but Civ is not RL. Let's say 5 ?
    - Civilopedia strategy text says nothing about interception range. 4 tiles ?

    - On both carrier and Supercarrier, Civilopedia strategy text says "...the Carrier/Supercarrier is weak and should be escorted...". Doesn't look so weak to me

    --- Missile Cruiser ---
    - Range 3. I believe that any Naval unit with a "Can move after attacking" promotion must get range 2 maximum.
    - Carries 6 missiles. That's a lot. 4 instead ?
    - Combat 50. Why not 55 or 60 ? (Can't be less than a Carrier)
    - "Bonus vs Submarines (75)" promotion. I don't know what to think about that. We have already a Missile Destroyer to deal with Subs.

    --- Cruise Missile ---
    - Civilopedia strategy and History Info text call it "Guided Missile
    - Civilopedia strategy text says "Range of 6".

    - Because of the ranges and the "Bonus vs Cities (50)" promotion, Rocket and Cruise Missiles look OP. However, I used to disable Nuclear weapons, so I'm very happy with the current figures.

    --- Zero ---
    - Fighter is now a Ranged Combat 60 unit. The Zero remain at 70, same as the Jet Fighter ?

    I really like the the graphic and art components you put in this mod. Nothing is missing. The very new rocket animation from ship is gorgeous.

    Like
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
  5. Infixo

    Infixo Warlord

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    Great comments, thanks!
    One thing to remember - as with VP-EE, I tried to minimize the changes to original VP units. And except for Missile Cruiser and airplane tweaks, all original units have the same parameters, actually.

    -- Generic things
    I've missed that change in naval units where 3-tile ranged units where abandoned and move after attack was introduced. So, is it like a rule that no more 3-tile ranged units in game?

    -- Carrier
    Original VP, not changed. But truth to be told - I also think that it is a bit too strong, I would make it 40-45. Air intercept - I assume 4 represents the idea that not only guns, but also planes on the carrier also provide protection. Without that I agree that it should be 2-3.

    -- Supercarrier
    Yeah... I wanted it to be THE badass unit. The pinnacle of naval units. It has some limitations however: max 3 instances per player and you need Uranium to build it. Also, it incurs additional per turn cost (50 gold). So, power comes with price.
    You can have 4 planes on a normal Carrier with promotions, so 5 for a Supercarrier is not impressive. You have 8 on start, +2 with promotions. I may nerf it to 6+2 if others will point it out as well.
    Air intercept is 5.
    I will change Range to 1.
    "Weak" - haha, Nimitz is certainly not weak... I assume weak means melee strength. 60 - probably 2 shots from nuclear sub and you are dead...

    -- Missile Cruiser
    All modern ships have anti-sub systems. But yeah, from gameplay perspective, the Destroyer line is supposed to fight subs. I may nerf the Bonus to Anti-Sub I instead of Anti-Sub II?
    Range 3 - see my "generic" comment - I will change it to 2.
    Missiles - the Cruiser is the designated ship to carry them... idk, same as Supercarrier - let's wait for other comments.
    Stregth - well, all ranged naval units have ~2/3 strength of their melee counterparts. In INF era it is 80, so it should be ~53, yeah maybe 55 is better. Carrier is somewhere between melee and ranged, so maybe Supercarrier should be 65-70.

    -- Cruise Missile
    I will change it back to Guided Missile, don't want to mess with original Civ texts. Range 6? Didn't notice, will check.
    Both missiles need Oil to be created, plus Cities got 500+ HP from sea buildings, so I dont know if they are really op. Must be tested in-game.

    -- Zero
    My mistake, should be 65.

    And yes - missile ships finally fire rockets not guns :) I am really pleased with that new animations :)
    I found the models in mods and CivFanatics libraries, actually. I am good at programming, but not graphics.
     
  6. Padre19

    Padre19 Chieftain

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    Thank you !
     
  7. MorphBer

    MorphBer Chieftain

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    I love naval warfare and this looks great, will give it a try soon. Thanks for the work!
     
  8. Drakul

    Drakul Chieftain

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    Infixo. What abou to give Russia,France,USA,India,UK,China unique Aircraftcarrier? :D After all. They have their own class. Others get the usual carriers :D
     
  9. Infixo

    Infixo Warlord

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    Great idea, but not in scope of this mod. There is work going on 3rd & 4th Unique Components - maybe suggest this idea over there? BTW, there are models available to use for various country-specific carriers (and other ships as well).
     
  10. Asterix Rage

    Asterix Rage Warlord

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    Nice move with this new release v1.1 (Download from Steam is v1 when download from Cicfanatics is v1.1. Both are same)

    I deleted the reply about aircrafts changes you made in v1. Not relevant anymore since v1.1
    I keep this part anyway. When fully tested, I'll post a new thread on CPP. If a change must be done, it should be made by Gazebo.

    More comments to come...
     
  11. Infixo

    Infixo Warlord

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    @Asterix Rage Yes, Steam and CivFanatics have the same version, and it is 1.1. On Steam you just dont see zip files, only mod which loads as Version 1 in the game.
    I played domination with the mod to see how things are, hence the changes. AI uses all new units normally.
    Waiting for more comments :)

    As for airplanes... well, they are quite strongly diversified by promotions. I didn't know earlier that Bombers basically have to take anti-city promos (have not played VP for few months). I still feel that maybe little 1-tile difference in Range would be ok, but decided to focus the mod on Naval warfare and not meddle with airfare for the time being.
     
  12. Jarula

    Jarula Chieftain

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    Does it work with enlightenment era?
     
  13. Infixo

    Infixo Warlord

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  14. vyyt

    vyyt Chieftain

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    Wow wow wow!!! I noticed you have returned, so I wanted to ask you about the promising enhanced naval project you had once mentioned in the EE thread, only to find out you have already launched it!!! I am so looking forward to try this out once I have some free time, thank you!

    I was actually thinking that maybe a new ship class starting by the dreadnought times or maybe even a bit earlier would be nice - it had been discussed a little when Gazebo made the big changes in naval units. In WWII terms, a melee destroyer, a cruiser with a moderate 2 range and move after firing and a new battleship with a strong 3 range, slower movement, no move after attack and a resource requirement.

    What do you think, would it be doable and a good idea?
     
  15. Infixo

    Infixo Warlord

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    @vyyt Try it out and give me some comments. Quite a lot of people subscribed on Steam, but not many comments. I dont know if the mod is so good or so bad :D

    3rd type is actually introduced in VP - ranged ships that move after attacking. Long-range battleships, that stay in place, well that was always in the game :) So, yes, all those options are doable.
    I’m having doubts about AI however. AI uses new hit&run ranged ships but that is all. More ship types and they could get lost again. What did G say about? Can he program AI to use such capabilities?
    Second doubt is that if you introduce a new ship type so late in game, you wont have time to develop it. I mean with promos. I like to upgrade my units and stack promos :)
     
  16. Infixo

    Infixo Warlord

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    On second thought... we actually already have 3 lines of ships, maybe we should just differentiate more.
    1. Melee naval - obvious
    2. Ranged naval - I would go back to long-range, static ships with Dreadnought or even Cruiser.
    3. Ranged naval that can move after attacking - submarines! They proudly continue piratey hit&run style. Plus they are freaking invisible. But AI kind of underutilize them, imo.
    Maybe 1 or 2 ships in mid-game could be hit&run but also slowly introduce those powerful but slow ones, e.g. Ship of the Line is a good candidate for that. This could really work well with EE since there are already new ships available.
     
  17. Infixo

    Infixo Warlord

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  18. Asterix Rage

    Asterix Rage Warlord

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    Currently my endless marathon game tell me a couple of things :

    - Because Destroyer is at combustion, Modern Destroyer should be at Electronics (to separate them a little bit more)
    - Because Attack and Nuclear Sub are bloody powerfull, I suggest -1 mov
    - Because Great Admirals are spending their time running after Combat Unit, I suggest +1 or +2 move at Electronics or Computer
    - Because all the advanced Naval Units need Aluminium or Uranium, a decent littoral Unit using Coal should be welcome for the weakers opponents. (Range combat allowed from inside city)
    - I'm still not convince about the Sub bonus on Cruise missile. (Gameplay matter. The Destroyer and sub should remain the Sub counter-attackers)
    - "Enhanced Naval Warfare" you said? It would make sense to include a expensive Naval Academy giving 20 or 25 XP
     
  19. Infixo

    Infixo Warlord

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    @Asterix Rage Some comments actually apply to Vox Populi, not the mod. Maybe you should also post them to the main forum?

    - Because Destroyer is at combustion, Modern Destroyer should be at Electronics (to separate them a little bit more) I didn't want to change VP-things, people are used to them, I think... but as I rule I agree that more spacing is ok.
    - Because Attack and Nuclear Sub are bloody powerfull, I suggest -1 mov These are same stats as in VP (Attack=Submarine). The Submarine I have added, is actually a weaker VP submarine with the same name. Anyway, why do you think they are OP? You can't one-hit a destroyer even with WolfPack3.
    - Because Great Admirals are spending their time running after Combat Unit, I suggest +1 or +2 move at Electronics or Computer Same - no change from VP. But I have a feeling that Admirals always were lacking that 1 movement?
    - Because all the advanced Naval Units need Aluminium or Uranium, a decent littoral Unit using Coal should be welcome for the weakers opponents. (Range combat allowed from inside city) Pls. explain, I am not grasping the idea.
    - I'm still not convince about the Sub bonus on Cruise missile. (Gameplay matter. The Destroyer and sub should remain the Sub counter-attackers) You are a gameplay purist, I am more into putting real life things into the game, if possible. Truth is that those two lines are very similar nowadays. Hence my approach - similar, but still different.
    - "Enhanced Naval Warfare" you said? It would make sense to include a expensive Naval Academy giving 20 or 25 XP[/QUOTE] Excellent idea (and easy to do). Maybe this could also extend movements of Admirals. I just need to find a nice icon...
     
  20. Infixo

    Infixo Warlord

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    I would actually start with making NucSub with range 1. Since battleship was downed from 3 to 2, there is no reason for NusSub to stay at 2. Also, torpedos are not long range weapons, Sub has to come relatively close to the ship. That way this 1 move is used to get closer.
     
    vyyt likes this.

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