Enhanced Naval Warfare for Vox Populi

[Soupy Delicious]

Units - Subs Ignore Borders (v 3) by whoward69 seems quite popular.
It affects Submarines and Nuclear Submarines only.

Here is the version you must use with ENW to have Attack Submarines ignoring borders as well

Thank you sah. I think it's safe to say overall, you win my 'Civ 5 modder of the month' award

 

[Asterix Rage]

you win my 'Civ 5 modder of the month' award

You just win my 'VP player of the day' award

 

[azum4roll]

The new units' civilopedia pages can't be entered by search/right click on tech/right click on unit portrait. They can only be entered by page links (e.g. enter Missile Destroyer page under Modern Destroyer's Upgrade Unit).

This means Rocket Missile's page is completely inaccessible.

 

[Asterix Rage]

The new units' civilopedia pages can't be entered by search/right click on tech/right click on unit portrait. They can only be entered by page links (e.g. enter Missile Destroyer page under Modern Destroyer's Upgrade Unit).

This means Rocket Missile's page is completely inaccessible.

I'll have a look on that. Thx for the report

 

[Asterix Rage]

@azum4roll

Many aspects of what you did with ENW for your Photojournal (6-19-4) look very good to me.
I'd like to make a new version 1.6.14 with some of your changes:

• "-- fix anti-Sub promotions"
• "-- rename Dreadnought promotions"
• Air Supremacy I to Supercarrier
• Turtle Ship unit class fix
• Destroyer moved to Replaceable Parts and Advanced Destroyer moved to Particle Physics
• PROMOTION_FIRE_SUPPORT dropped definitly for all Units
  
• All Range Units do not see sub
  
• A few of your general changes on strength

Where I am not keen is :

• PROMOTION_HEAVY_FIRE 50% vs Melee looks huge. Do Range Naval Units, able to damage Units safely, need that ?
• PROMOTION_WITHDRAW_BEFORE_MELEE is like a fondamentale chance given to subs. And It matches well with what a sub is in RL.
• All changes you make on UNIT_MISSILE_CRUISER. But you are right PROMOTION_LOGISTICS and PROMOTION_SEE_INVISIBLE_SUBMARINE are too much.
• All changes you make on UNIT_SUPERCARRIER

Your comments ?

 

[azum4roll]

My design is a combat triangle of Melee > Sub > Ranged > Melee, gradually transformed from the Melee = Ranged parity that's Corvette and Frigate, and Ironclad and Cruiser.

By making ranged ships have high CS, low RCS but a +50% against melee ships, they counter melee ships, do okay against land units, and have an extreme weakness to submarines. They also don't have resistance to planes, but won't fall that easily. Armor Plating on Missile Cruiser would stop it from taking much damage from pretty much everything except submarines, which is definitely not balanced.

Melee ships' role changes from tanking and taking cities to intercepting planes and protecting ranged ships and carriers from submarines towards the lategame. VP made them too strong, so I lowered their CS a bit.

Submarines are supposed to be weak to melee, but withdrawing from melee counteracts that, so it has to go. High RCS makes them resist ranged ship attacks.

(Super)carriers' high CS makes them resist air strikes. Low RCS hopefully reduces the AI's tendency of using them to attack directly, and makes them weaker to submarines.

Of course, all changes were just theorycrafted and I still have to test them using the current AI game.

 

[Asterix Rage]

VP New Beta Version - August 16th (8/16)

Anti-Sub I/II Now gated behind Navigation I Anti-Sub I tech locked behind Nuclear Fission (submarine unlock tech) Detect Submarines Now gated behind Anti-Sub-II Units Destroyer/Missile Cruiser Removed free anti-submarine promotions

!
ENW 1.6.13 not advised with VP(8-16)
A next version to come in few days.

 

[danymatrix]

why not friend? we need this mod to play with 8-16 Please

[QUOTE = "Asterix Rage, publicación: 15877468, miembro: 183863"] VP Nueva versión beta - 16 de agosto (16/8)

!
ESW 1.6.13 no recomendado con VP (8-16) A
La próxima versión estará disponible en unos días. [/ CITA]

 

[Asterix Rage]

VP(8-16)
-
Anti-Sub I/II Now gated behind Navigation I
Anti-Sub I tech locked behind Nuclear Fission (submarine unlock tech)
Detect Submarines Now gated behind Anti-Sub-II
Destroyer/Missile Cruiser Removed free anti-submarine promotions
-

I believe you and I need to play a least once without ENW to renew our understanding of where VP is going with Naval.
Then, we will be able to think about what "Enhancement" we want.

 

[danymatrix]

ok friend, but in the meantime can you release version 1.6.14 compatible with 8/16 please? thanks in advance
ps: my life depends on this haha

VP(8-16)
-
Anti-Sub I/II Now gated behind Navigation I
Anti-Sub I tech locked behind Nuclear Fission (submarine unlock tech)
Detect Submarines Now gated behind Anti-Sub-II
Destroyer/Missile Cruiser Removed free anti-submarine promotions
-

I believe you and I need to play a least once without ENW to renew our understanding of where VP is going with Naval.
Then, we will be able to thing about what "Enhancement" we want.

 

[Asterix Rage]

can you release version 1.6.14 compatible with 8/16 please?

!
I can't
With the recent changes in VP, I don't know what to do with ENW anymore.

 

[azum4roll]

This is my answer to the 8/16 changes for my tweaked version.

No change for Anti-Sub promotions
Detect Submarines now gated behind either tier 1 promotions (Broadside I/Hull Upgrade I)
Detect Submarines removed from free promotions except Advanced Destroyers

 

[Asterix Rage]

changes for my tweaked version.

Your tweaked version is interesting. Very. No doubt about it.

ENW maintenance is something completly different. The base concept of ENW is to do what VP does with more Units. Nothing more and nothing less. I like this idea since the beginning and want to stick on it.
Despite this conviction, ENW is moving further and further away from all vp naval rules. Naval rules changing almost once a month ! I'm getting tired with that.
I don't understand the all thing about this bonus vs city for Ironclad/destroya already destroying cities easly, I don't understand the all thing about this withdraw promo giving to Destroyer but not to the missile cruiser. The detect Submarines removed is a big move. I'm concerne about that. Does it mean that the only priority now is to get "can see Sub" with XP? I hope AI know that... Btw, I've not been able to observe the "Can see sub" promo at any time with IE. Does it work really?

I don't know anymore if it worth to stick on the VP concepts or if ENW must evolve and offer something different.
For now, I'm going to play a game without ENW to feel the fondamental. (I don't even remember the last time I play VP without ENW) Then, I'll see what we can do.

@azum4roll
If your tweaked version is clean enough with also its TXT updated, could you upload it here? With comments about changes. You could call it something like ENW 1.6.13 Special Azum War Edition

 

[azum4roll]

@azum4roll
If your tweaked version is clean enough with also its TXT updated, could you upload it here? With comments about changes. You could call it something like ENW 1.6.13 Special Azum War Edition

I'll release it after testing. So far there's no stable enough version to test it thoroughly (what's lategame naval warfare when half of the planes randomly disappear?)

With the new version there'll be more tweaking needed.

 

[Asterix Rage]

what's lategame naval warfare when half of the planes randomly disappear?

This bug is gone with (8-16) Doesn't it?

 

[danymatrix]

Yes. We need this update! Tkz

 

[azum4roll]

This bug is gone with (8-16) Doesn't it?

According to the 8-16 thread, it's still there.

 

[Asterix Rage]

Anti-Sub I/II Now gated behind Navigation I
Anti-Sub I tech locked behind Nuclear Fission (submarine unlock tech)
Detect Submarines Now gated behind Anti-Sub-II Units Destroyer/Missile Cruiser
Removed free anti-submarine promotions

Actually none of that work in VP(8-23-3)
Regarding this bug (already reported) it appears that ENW (V 1.16.13) is the best alternative to see Subs and fairly deal with them.

 

[Asterix Rage]

UPDATE ENW (v 1.6.14)
For VP (9-2) and (9-8) (Sept 2020)

3 big changes:

- 1 -
Removed free 'anti-submarine Promotions' from all Naval Melee Units.
Removed free 'Can see submarine Promotions' from Destroyer, Modern Destroyer, Missile Destroyer and Missile Cruiser.
'Bonus vs Submarines (33) Promotion' available @ TECH_PLASTIC (When Submarine is available)

- 2 -
Naval Melee Units and Submarine  are shifted one column to the right.

DESTROYER
@ TECH_RADIO (was TECH_COMBUSTION)

MODERN_DESTROYER
@ TECH_NUCLEAR_FISSION (was TECH_ROCKETRY)

MISSILE_DESTROYER
@ TECH_LASERS (was TECH_ADVANCED_BALLISTICS)

ADVANCED_DESTROYER
@ TECH_PARTICLE_PHYSICS (was TECH_NANOTECHNOLOGY)

SUBMARINE
@ TECH_PLASTICS (was TECH_ELECTRICITY)

ATTACK_SUBMARINE
@ TECH_ELECTRONICS (was TECH_PENICILIN)

- 3 -
Removed free 'Withdraw Before Melee Promotion' from all Submarines. Replaced by the new 'Dive Promotion"
'Light Cover Promotion' is replaced by 'Dive Promotion': +15% Defense against Ranged attacks and 20% Withdraw change.

- Other -
Removed free 'Logistics Promotions' from Missile Cruiser.
ROCKET_MISSILE Does not use Military Supply anymore.
Better Unit Icon to the Cruiser (Icon from Janboruta)
'Dreadnought' Promotions are renamed: Hull Upgrade I/II/III

- 1 -
That's how VP works now. Subs are realy hidden underwater. You have to pick appropriate promotions to hunt them. Otherwise, they hunt you !


- 2 -
The annoying fact about ENW was the Destroyer available too early after the Ironclad. But now, everybody moved to make space between them.
One technology column separates always all Naval Units.
Submarine moved as well to be syncronized with The Destroyer.


- 3 -

 

[danymatrix]

Great men!