[BNW] Enjoyable Deity Games

[Nizef]

Here is a recap of all games in the Enjoyable Deity Games Experience (EDGE) series so far:

1. Korea (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
2. the Shoshone (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with Really Advanced Setup (RAS))
3. America (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
4. Denmark (Continents, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
5. Byzantium (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS)
6. Germany (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
7. Polynesia (Small Continents Plus, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
8. Brazil (Continents, Standard speed, Large size, Modded with RAS)
9. Mongolia (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
10. Spain (Terra, Standard speed, Large size, Modded with RAS)
11. Carthage (Continents, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS)
12. the Aztecs (Lakes, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
13. England (Continents, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS)
14. Korea 2 (Small Continents, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS)
15. Venice (Fractal, Epic speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS)
16. Egypt (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS)
17. the Huns (Oval, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS)
18. Japan (Hellblazers Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded both with RAS and Hellblazers map script)
19. China (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS)
20. Babylon (Hellblazers Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded both with RAS and Hellblazers map script)
21. Polynesia 2 (Hellblazers Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded both with RAS and Hellblazers map script)
22. Korea 3 (Hellblazers Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded both with RAS and Hellblazers map script)
23. Russia (Hellblazers Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded both with RAS and Hellblazers map script)
24. Portugal (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS)
25. France (Lakes, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
26. Germany 2 (Lakes, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
27. England 2 (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS)
28. Sweden (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
29. Arabia (Sandstorm, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
30. the Mayans (Tectonics map, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with both RAS and the Tectonics map template)
31. Ethiopia (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
32. Assyria (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
33. Poland (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS)
34. India (Pangaea, Standard speed, Small size, Modded with RAS)
35. the Aztecs 2 (Hellblazers Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with Hellblazers map script)
36. Morocco (Sandstorm, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
37. Babylon 2 (Large Islands, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
38. Spain 2 (Inland Sea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
39. Greece (Fractal, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
40. Carthage 2 (Fractal, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
41. Indonesia (Archipelago, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
42. the Mayans 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Piety challenge
43. Siam (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Patronage partial challenge
44. the Shoshone 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
45. Poland 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Honor challenge
46. the Netherlands (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Liberty challenge
47. the Aztecs 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
48. the Celts (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
49. the Zulus (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Aesthetics challenge
50. Austria (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
51. Persia (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
52. the Ottomans (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Religion challenge
53. Rome (Fractal, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
54. Songhai (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
55. the Incas (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
56. Russia 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
57. India 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), CV challenge
58. Germany 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
59. Byzantium 2 (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Religion challenge
60. the Iroquois (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Aesthetics challenge
61. America 2 (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), DomV challenge
62. Sweden 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Petra challenge
63. Morocco 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), partial Commerce challenge
64. England 3 (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), partial UN challenge
65. Portugal 2 (Continents, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), partial elimination challenge
66. Egypt 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
67. Polynesia 3 (Archipelago, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
68. Sweden 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
69. Germany 4 (Pangaea, Epic speed, Large size, Unmodded), War academy, part 1, DomV challenge
70. the Huns 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), War academy, part 2
71. Spain 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Huge size, Unmodded)
72. Denmark 2 (Lakes, Standard speed, Standard size, Otherwise unmodded but Rotate Starting Position was used)
73. Venice 2 (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), DipV challenge
74. Carthage 3 (Hellblazer´s Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with Hellblazer´s map script), CV challenge
75. China 2 (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), War academy, part 3, DomV challenge
76. Mongolia 2 (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), War academy, part 4
77. Brazil 2 (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
78. the Shoshone 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
79. Assyria 2 (Terra Incognita, Standard speed, Standard size, Otherwise unmodded but Rotate Starting Position was used)
80. Indonesia 2 (Small Continents, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), No Liberty challenge
81. Portugal 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
82. Japan 2 (Ice Age, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), No Order challenge
83. Persia 2 (Random map, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
84. the Netherlands 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
85. Denmark 3 (Tiny Islands, Standard speed, Large size, Raging Barbarians, Otherwise unmodded but Rotate Starting Position was used)
86. America 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Large size, Unmodded), No Tradition challenge
87. the Incas 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
88. Korea 4 (Pangaea, Quick speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
89. the Ottomans 2 (Continents, Standard speed, Large size, Unmodded)
90. Arabia 2 (Lakes, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
91. Ethiopia 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Pantheon challenge
92. Greece 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
93. France 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), CV challenge
94. Siam 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded),Incense challenge
95. Byzantium 3 (Continents, Epic speed, Large size, Unmodded)
96. England 4 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
97. Sweden 4 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
98. Babylon 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
99. the Zulus 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Large size, Unmodded)
100. Germany 5 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), CV challenge
101. Brazil 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
102. Austria 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
103. England 5 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, modded with RAS and Acken´s balance mod)
104. the Celts 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
105. Rome 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Large size, Unmodded)
106. Songhai 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
107. Poland 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
108. Russia 3 (Lakes, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), DomV challenge
109. China 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
110. the Aztecs 4 (Lakes, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), DomV challenge
111. the Shoshone 4 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
112. Korea 5 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
113. the Mayans 3 (Continents, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
114. Assyria 3 (Continents, Standard speed, Huge size, Unmodded), Partial domination challenge
115. Japan 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
116. Egypt 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
117. India 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Religion challenge
118. Germany 6 (Lakes, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), DomV challenge
119. the Zulus 3 (Lakes, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), DomV challenge
120. Carthage 4 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded)
121. Ethiopia 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Piety and CV challenge

The subseries MIDGE consists of:
1. Finland (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size. Otherwise unmodded but the civ to play is Finland)
2. The Papal States (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size. Otherwise unmodded but the civ to play is The Papal States. You also need Austria-Hungary.)
3. Phoenisia (Continents, Standard speed, Standard size. Otherwise unmodded but the civ to play is the Phoenician civilization.)
4. Norway (Ice Age, Standard speed, Standard size. Otherwise unmodded but the civ to play is Norway. You also need the modded civs Finland, Iceland and Scotland.)
5. Belgium (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Otherwise unmodded but the civ to play is Belgium)

 

[TMNTurtle]

I agree with your analysis when comparing the Songhai and Babylon games. However, I offer one additional thought: the Songhai game has the benefit of trade routes to Korea while the Babylon game was short on early trade routes. What do you think?

I hadn't considered that aspect, but I do recall sending a lot of trade routes Sejongs way throughout the game. I suppose this behaviour not only helped with early timings, but also at least partially contributed to the aforementioned population differential. Good call!

 

[Shark Diver]

EDGE#121

T21 - Good luck with ruins and decent terrain has me off to a solid start.

Spoiler Early Game :

Note, I read Nizef's summary and paid attention to him saying we were painted into a corner and changed my tactics based on that foreknowledge).

Settled on the Gold, which seemed to be the obvious spot. Looks like good early growth and some decent production. It looks like it can grow to my "A-" tier of Capitals.

Sent the Warrior NW. Met nearby CS, which is great protection from that direction. They'll be lifelong friends if it kills me. Ruins: Spearman - Mining - Culture (only 6 turns late for Tradition opener) - Pop Ruin. That last Pop ruin was on t20 and was 2 tiles from Dido's territory. Thank you Ma'am, don't mind if I take your worker on the next turn.



BO: Scout - Stele - Settler (gotta settle GBR ASAP) - will start on Shrine when Setter is finished now that Piety is open. I normally go Scout-Scout-Shrine, but with no free Monuments, Stele's faith, and foreknowledge that I was in a corner, I wanted to get the Stele up ASAP. I hate doing a 3-Pop Settler build, and that last Pop ruin will help with the next Settlers. Right now, I'm thinking a 3-city National College and it looks like I'll have room for 2 more somewhat late cities when I'll be able to feed them Caravans. Scout also met Askia, who had a General running around the middle of nowhere. I was tempted to take him, but I don't want a Warmonger penalty and still need to steal a Worker or two. An early General means he's going Dom and will be easy to bribe into war all game.

Scout went NE. Found GBR and will settle it ASAP. I wanted coastal anyways, as the lack of a 2nd scout means I'm going to have to get an early Trireme out to properly scout. Ruins: Pop - Scarcher Upgrade (now I'll have to build a late scout in the 1st Expo). You'll see in the screenshot below that he's standing next to a ruin on the same turn I got my Pantheon. I am praying for a faith ruin.



Got 3rd Pantheon on t20. Being 3rd, I'm prepared for a challenging religious game, even though neither took a faith generating pantheon. I weighed 3 Pantheon options:

• God King - although I love the early Science and Culture boost, I'll have GBR soon and want to be 1st to religion for Pagodas and hopefully Cathedrals, which will make up for the Culture. I'll often go God King when I have alternative Faith generation (UA's, UB's, and/or Natural Wonders).
• Tears of the Gods - This would be appear to be the strongest faith generator, but those gems are not located near where I think I'll settle, meaning they won't come online quickly. I also hate having to sacrifice growth for faith in expos.
• One With Nature - getting +8 early from GBR almost ensures me of being 1st Religion and I'll be working those tiles all game. Early faith is always more valuable even if Tears would eventually outpace this one, I'm not so sure that getting Faith Buildings up more quickly doesn't offset that over time. I went with OWN.

Research was Pottery - Animal Husbandry (because Mining was free) - Writing. Since I have a Scarcher and Spear, I'm going to delay Archery and beeline for Oracle and Religious Buildings. I may detour into Masonry to grab Pyramids for the faster worker but also the early GE point (this is going to be a Wondermonger game). Maybe a late Pyramids after Oracle if the AI hasn't built it.

Social Policies were Tradition Opener, Piety Opener. I'll take +1 Faith next. After that, I'll consider Liberty Opener (for Pyramids) or Honor Opener to mine that Barb camp right on my border. I have played the Opener game in awhile, but in this scenario, it might make sense. The other Policies in Piety can be delayed as they aren't that useful until you've already founded and enhanced. The risk, of course, is that I'll get beaten to Sacred Sites, which I'm definitely going for. Backup plan will be Glory To God, as the lack of Tradition means I won't be able to buy GE's, and that might matter in a Wondermonger game. We'll see when the time comes.

 

[Shark Diver]

T100 Update

Spoiler Looking good, not great..... :

I ended up stealing 2 workers from Dido and 2 from Zurich before making peace with both. I was thinking I'd nab a late Pyramids, but someone built them on t42 right when I was about to waste a policy on Liberty. Lucky break. I still have 4 workers on 3 cities so should have no problem keeping up.

Keeping the Bsrb camp from t0 spawn alive for CS paid off when Mbonza-whatver asked to have it cleared. A quick spear rush got me a free archer before his hostility took his friendship away. I'll need a good gold game to keep him allied for his Cho--nu-kus. Killed a Barb camp for Kiev and freeing their worker got me my Cultural Ally (this is a big deal). Another Barb camp and return of worker got me a Food Ally.



Culture is good. Science will be good with GBR and an early National College.Faith is strong, and I'm up to 20 FPT quickly. Gold is weak. Happiness is strong enough for an early Golden Age for NC build.

A quick caravan out of City#2 to Songhai gets me next-turn DoF.

Even at 20 PPT, I get beat to Pagodas by 1 turn. I take Mosques. I'm confident I can get Cathedrals.

Nope. 2 more Religions are founded by t45. Cathedrals are still there.

I'm at 240 Fatih and can smell the Cathedrals, but they go the Pagoda guy. It's time for my early Reformation belief. Choices:

• Sacred Sites - Even though all faith buildings are gone, I'm thinking 5 cities still and that 10 Tourism this early would be pretty interesting. If I'd gotten Cathedrals, this would have been a no-brainer.
• Jesuit Education - Since I'm not having a dominant production game, I could turn this into a science monster. I've already got GBR and a very early 3-city NC, if I add JE, I could get to Internet quickly. Only having 2 river cities dissuaded me, but this would have been a fun game to play.
• Glory of God - This is a culture game. That requires timed Wonders. I have no GE points after getting beat to Pyramids (by a mile) and can't build Great Mosk of Jeannie (or shouldn't) because I got beat to Pagodas (Grrrrrrr). I'll need to be able to faith-buy GE's for some of these. That's the only reason I took this, as I expect to complete Rationalism and Aesthetics. I'm going to need Pisa for GP generation or this game is going to be a long slog. Yes, I took this Reformation Belief and will regret it the entire game. I think my recent play style is biased by only playing perfect starts and early finishes and I'm discounting the power of Science in longer games.

I enhance with Religious Community (+1) and Defender of the Faith. I wasn't concerned with spread and figured my UU would combine nicely to make me invincible. CS allies guarding my North, Songhai buddy to the West, and GBR protecting coastal makes me very, very secure and I won't have to waste time building military. Late coastal expos will be vulnerable, so I will have to address that.

Built Oracle t68.

NC on t78, which is very early and should pay dividends to compensate for the lack of early growth. I've got a Caravan to Cap. I've decided on 1 more City, on the Elk to the South. If I can send it a Cargo Ship it'll catch up quickly.



Built Hagia Sopha and planted the Profit on the Cows. I'd planted the Piety finisher on the Sheep a few turns back, so now I need to prioritize Stables in Cap. Faith is booming but will need to find some Religious CS. Trireme is prioritized after Cargo Ship as I don't have enough gold to rush-buy one.

Social Policies - Finished Piety and opened Aesthetics. Will take Cultural Centers before Opening Rationalism for quick Culture buildings. I don't have enough happiness for Fine Arts (50% of excess happiness goes to Culture). Am wondering how to time the free Golden Age with Rationalism? This will be interesting.



Expos 1 and 2 are doing OK. #1 will need Cargo Ship help, but #2 will be grow well in the midgame. Focusing on production over growth and hoping to catch up later. This is hurting science, but I figure this is a luxury.

Now I'm beelining for Education that off to Workshops and probably Printing Press (if nobody is there yet). I won't have a GE to rush Pisa, so I'll divert to Acoustics if I get beat there. My Cap is not a production monster so I won't waste hammers chasing a dream.

I should reach Education right at my t110 benchmark.

There are several strong AI's, but those scores are bloated by Religion. I was still somehow #1 in Land prior to settling my 4th city. Only war I know about is Dido vs Sweden, which suits me fine. Will get the others fighting as soon as I have something to trade. Markets are a priority soon.

It turns out that Venice was the a$$hole who took Pagodas, Cathedrals, and Sacred Sites. Dude only has 1 freaking city so the AI should de-prioritize those for him as they are less valuable. This is a flaw in the game and I hate that purple bastard!!!!. Had I gotten Cathedrals, my t 60ish Sacred Sites would have been uber-powerful and I'd likely have parlayed that into a Futurism game. Now I want to replay this game and get those Follower Beliefs. I bet someone who pulled off this strategy could finish ~220 if there are no Cultural runaways.

Empire is tending at a "B-" pace, but there's upside potential if I can grow. Cap needs to grow, and I'm short on trade routes. Need some CS help.

Demos are OK. I should take Production and Tech lead soon. There are no dominant AI's, so CV will happen. It's just a matter of how quick.

 

[Nizef]

View attachment 579872 T100 Update

Spoiler Looking good, not great..... :

I ended up stealing 2 workers from Dido and 2 from Zurich before making peace with both. I was thinking I'd nab a late Pyramids, but someone built them on t42 right when I was about to waste a policy on Liberty. Lucky break. I still have 4 workers on 3 cities so should have no problem keeping up.

Keeping the Bsrb camp from t0 spawn alive for CS paid off when Mbonza-whatver asked to have it cleared. A quick spear rush got me a free archer before his hostility took his friendship away. I'll need a good gold game to keep him allied for his Cho--nu-kus. Killed a Barb camp for Kiev and freeing their worker got me my Cultural Ally (this is a big deal). Another Barb camp and return of worker got me a Food Ally.

View attachment 579869

Culture is good. Science will be good with GBR and an early National College.Faith is strong, and I'm up to 20 FPT quickly. Gold is weak. Happiness is strong enough for an early Golden Age for NC build.

A quick caravan out of City#2 to Songhai gets me next-turn DoF.

Even at 20 PPT, I get beat to Pagodas by 1 turn. I take Mosques. I'm confident I can get Cathedrals.

Nope. 2 more Religions are founded by t45. Cathedrals are still there.

I'm at 240 Fatih and can smell the Cathedrals, but they go the Pagoda guy. It's time for my early Reformation belief. Choices:

• Sacred Sites - Even though all faith buildings are gone, I'm thinking 5 cities still and that 10 Tourism this early would be pretty interesting. If I'd gotten Cathedrals, this would have been a no-brainer.
• Jesuit Education - Since I'm not having a dominant production game, I could turn this into a science monster. I've already got GBR and a very early 3-city NC, if I add JE, I could get to Internet quickly. Only having 2 river cities dissuaded me, but this would have been a fun game to play.
• Glory of God - This is a culture game. That requires timed Wonders. I have no GE points after getting beat to Pyramids (by a mile) and can't build Great Mosk of Jeannie (or shouldn't) because I got beat to Pagodas (Grrrrrrr). I'll need to be able to faith-buy GE's for some of these. That's the only reason I took this, as I expect to complete Rationalism and Aesthetics. I'm going to need Pisa for GP generation or this game is going to be a long slog. Yes, I took this Reformation Belief and will regret it the entire game. I think my recent play style is biased by only playing perfect starts and early finishes and I'm discounting the power of Science in longer games.

I enhance with Religious Community (+1) and Defender of the Faith. I wasn't concerned with spread and figured my UU would combine nicely to make me invincible. CS allies guarding my North, Songhai buddy to the West, and GBR protecting coastal makes me very, very secure and I won't have to waste time building military. Late coastal expos will be vulnerable, so I will have to address that.

Built Oracle t68.

NC on t78, which is very early and should pay dividends to compensate for the lack of early growth. I've got a Caravan to Cap. I've decided on 1 more City, on the Elk to the South. If I can send it a Cargo Ship it'll catch up quickly.

View attachment 579867

Built Hagia Sopha and planted the Profit on the Cows. I'd planted the Piety finisher on the Sheep a few turns back, so now I need to prioritize Stables in Cap. Faith is booming but will need to find some Religious CS. Trireme is prioritized after Cargo Ship as I don't have enough gold to rush-buy one.

Social Policies - Finished Piety and opened Aesthetics. Will take Cultural Centers before Opening Rationalism for quick Culture buildings. I don't have enough happiness for Fine Arts (50% of excess happiness goes to Culture). Am wondering how to time the free Golden Age with Rationalism? This will be interesting.

View attachment 579866

Expos 1 and 2 are doing OK. #1 will need Cargo Ship help, but #2 will be grow well in the midgame. Focusing on production over growth and hoping to catch up later. This is hurting science, but I figure this is a luxury.

Now I'm beelining for Education that off to Workshops and probably Printing Press (if nobody is there yet). I won't have a GE to rush Pisa, so I'll divert to Acoustics if I get beat there. My Cap is not a production monster so I won't waste hammers chasing a dream.

I should reach Education right at my t110 benchmark.

There are several strong AI's, but those scores are bloated by Religion. I was still somehow #1 in Land prior to settling my 4th city. Only war I know about is Dido vs Sweden, which suits me fine. Will get the others fighting as soon as I have something to trade. Markets are a priority soon.

It turns out that Venice was the a$$hole who took Pagodas, Cathedrals, and Sacred Sites. Dude only has 1 freaking city so the AI should de-prioritize those for him as they are less valuable. This is a flaw in the game and I hate that purple bastard!!!!. Had I gotten Cathedrals, my t 60ish Sacred Sites would have been uber-powerful and I'd likely have parlayed that into a Futurism game. Now I want to replay this game and get those Follower Beliefs. I bet someone who pulled off this strategy could finish ~220 if there are no Cultural runaways.

Empire is tending at a "B-" pace, but there's upside potential if I can grow. Cap needs to grow, and I'm short on trade routes. Need some CS help.

Demos are OK. I should take Production and Tech lead soon. There are no dominant AI's, so CV will happen. It's just a matter of how quick.

What really strikes me, is that your cities are much bigger than mine. Other than that, keep an eye on Morocco, their culture pool was fantastic in my game.

 

[Shark Diver]

What really strikes me, is that your cities are much bigger than mine. Other than that, keep an eye on Morocco, their culture pool was fantastic in my game.

I prioritize city growth over just about everything else. That was the lesson that it took me years to finally sink in.

Interesting regarding Morocco. I was thinking my good friends from Songhai might be ready to hit them with some UU's. I've got a bit of treasure to trade finally. T200 update coming hopefully today.

 

[Shark Diver]

T177 Update

Spoiler Solid Mid-game :

Turn 100-177 was all about building infrastructure, begging my cities to grow, getting DoF and RA's when I could afford them, and focusing on dominating the CS game.

I've got 2 Cultural allies, a couple of food ones, and M'banza Kongo has given me 3 Cho-ku-nos. It's been expensive to keep him allied, but worth it. It was hard work, but I'm starting to dominate the CS, which is making up for the lack of Tradition somewhat. I've lost track of how many successful coups my spy has executed, but this type of execution is the reason I almost never steal techs and instead work the CS game.

View attachment 579985

Trading has been a challenge, as I'm overpaying for resources I need for CS and King days, but I'm getting them. As an example, 4 CS wanted Citrus so I payed 26 GPT as I had nothing else to trade at the time. I've just barely had enough gold/resources to keep things going smoothly here. Will prioritize GPT buildings soon.

View attachment 579985

I got to Education on t108, so I'm at a decent pace. I was able to build 3 Uni's before Workshops, but was unable to work specialists in the Expos until ~t170. This slowed me down a bit in science. From Workshops, I figured that since I had the 4 contenders at war, I'd make a run for Printing Press and get those 2 Wonders before grabbing Sistine. That was the plan at least. Venice hit Printing Press 5 turns before me along with 2 other Civs. I immediately diverted to Acoustics and built Sistine in 10 turns (that's painfully slow to me, but I've been playing a lot of Petra games so I've gotten spoiled) This was a mistake. Had I kept going to Printing Press or just gone straight to Acoustics, I'd have entered Renaissance in time and opened Rationalism 10 turns earlier. I compounded this mistake by taking the free GA in Aesthetics instead, which delayed future GA spawns in Expo #3. This means I'm not going to have a ton of Great People unless I do something creative. I'll still be getting all but the finisher in Rationalism very early, so I'll have the tech lead soon enough, but this was a big mistake.



I've been running 2 Food Caravans to Cap to keep it growing and have overpaid to keep its King days never-ending. The late coastal expo got up to speed fast thanks to an early Food Cargo Ship. Now both coastals are running hammers to each other and the 5th late Caravan is feeding City #3, which will be a late game monster, but has struggled to grow. No time for trade routes, but that'll change soon.

Another big mistake was settling the late 4th city on the Deer instead of the Horsies. This kept the Marble out of my range until t175, which made happiness tougher than it needed to be. Not sure what I was thinking, but if anyone is following this and wants to try to mimic my game, don't make the same mistake. I think I was worried about M'banza grabbing the Truffles and couldn't buy out to them at the time. Live and learn....

I got to choose World's Fair for the 1st World Congress, and Venice thankfully took Cultural Heritage Sites. This is exactly what I normally want to see in a Culture game, as I expect CHS to benefit me enough to offset the Cultural boost to others. I'm questioning whether that's the case in this particular game, as I'm not going to have any problem finishing the important Social Policies and am already pondering what I'll do once Rationalism, Aesthetics, and my Ideology are completed. It's a good problem to have, but less than efficient. I'm guessing I'll take Freedom and use the Legionaires to roll up Songhai and grab is GP and/or take out Dido's Cap.

I timed WF exactly with the start of a Golden Age and all 4 cities had overflow from finishing buildings on this turn. This was well executed and possibly necessary as Dido had me in hammers 320-167:



I got to 800+ hammers quickly enough that I was able to stop working it and churn out Porcelain Tower in Cap and some other valuable buildings in Expos for 3-4 turns before WF ended. Better safe than sorry, as winning this is such a big deal for powering through upcoming Ideology.



I'm now at 400+ CPT, all cities are productive enough to work specialists, and I've got 3 Scientists lined up for late game. I'll hit ideologies through Radio in about 5 turns (RA coming up). I won't have enough gold to buy production or science buildings (I'll find a way to by the Hydro Plant in the river expo, which will turbo boost that laggard). I should have all buildings themed in time for International Games the 3rd round.

Here's some details:



You can see I'm just now taking over the Culture lead, and will win all Culture and Faith quests for the rest of the game.

I've got 8 CS allies and will add more, so I control the World Congress. The 2nd round I proposed Natural Heritage Sites to turbo-charge GBR. That'll help Tourism later on. Venice proposed some stupid luxury ban, and I probably won't bother defeating it. I REALLY want NHS to pass, and the AI never seems to vote for it. I may even deploy some Diplomats for a few turns to ensure passage, as that +10 Culture will be multiplied.

Here's a summary of AI behavior so far:

Carthage - She's the runaway, as she took Sweden's Cap early and Stockholm is now the largest city on the map. I've kept her at war all game and she's close to wiping out Suleiman. Once she takes a 2nd Cap, I expect the rest of the AI to dogpile her with or without my urging. Because of the terrain, I can probably easily take her Cap quickly with Arties or Bombers if necessary. I've had DoF since t120. She's also close enough to be an easy Musician target.

Venice - The Purple D*ckhead has a nice 4-city empire. 2 of those CS were Cultural, which actually helps me by lowering early AI Culture and hurts me as I can't ally with them. He's having a strong game, but is not a threat.

Songhai - He's been my friend all game, but I'm going to take out his cap once he gets a few more Great People in his cap. That DoF ends around t195 and I can walk through him at my leisure. Will build some roads to him shortly once my gold gets over 100.

Sweden - Got rolled by Dido early and hasn't done much since. He's being a bit of a pain, and I haven't been able to DoF him for the GP bonus.

Ottomans - They were the early leader, but Carthage has kicked their butts. They were the last Civ I met, but ended up being a good trading partner. He'll be missed.

Morocco - They've been fighting with very close neighbor intermittingly, with some coercion from me. Strong DoF but not a threat.

Portugal - Pretty much interchangeable with Morocco this game. Both are evenly matched but I'm done getting them to war each other for 10 turns. Will let them both build up a bit before sending them after Carthage.

My prediction is that I'll get a CV somewhere around t260-270. I should get every Wonder I want going forward as I'll have tech lead shortly and Glory to God has now kicked in (Industrial Age). My Faith is nearing 100 FPT and I'm focusing on getting Ife allied right now. I already planted 5 Profits, and that extra Culture carried me early.

If I had just gotten my 2nd Profit 1 turn sooner I would have taken Cathedrals and Sacred Sites and this game could have been a very fast CV. This full Piety strategy, and getting reformation so early, could be very powerful if you have 2 faith buildings. I'd have tried to settle a 5th City if this had happened.

This is a very fun game, and I'm appreciating the unusual strategy guidelines. Well done OP.

I have no idea why these 2 files are attached where they are. I'm still learning this site's interface. Apologies.

 

[Nizef]

Really enjoyable updates. We are blessed with some really verbally able players in this thread and I think that detailed reports will add to the skill level of other players.

 

[Shark Diver]

Really enjoyable updates. We are blessed with some really verbally able players in this thread and I think that detailed reports will add to the skill level of other players.

Thanks again for the kind words. This really is a great website with some really good contributors. They inspire me.

It was detailed posts from other skilled players, and a few videos, that took my game to a new level. I feel obligated to repay the favor and hopefully help others do the same. At the same time, there are several semi-regular posters here who are more skilled at warfare than I am, and I read those posts to improve my own game. This current game, which I'll finish tomorrow, is a great example. My Culture/Science efforts (which I consider to be my own strengths) are not going to be good enough for a reasonably quick victory, so I'm going outside of my Turtling box and getting aggressive.

If you are a player who is newer to Diety games, and have questions for me based on my posts, please ask away. The more we learn about this game the more fun it becomes. I don't think I'll get bored enough to quit playing for years, and I'm more than happy to share whatever knowledge and/or wisdom I've picked up over years of playing.

Off topic: do they still have an active multi-player community online? In 2016, I got injured and spent a year in a wheelchair and on painkillers. One of my only ways to stay entertained was to watch Youtube videos and I got addicted to Filthy Robot games. He's a very skilled player in multi-player, but many here would wipe the floor with him in single player. Different skillsets. I'd very much like to test out how well I'd do in that universe now that I have a Windows OS.

Edit to add: I've just discovered the "like" button on this site. Should I be more diligent about liking posts, or is that not a big deal here? Just trying to fit in with the new culture here and I don't know the rules yet.

 

[Nizef]

Thanks again for the kind words. This really is a great website with some really good contributors. They inspire me.

Off topic: do they still have an active multi-player community online? In 2016, I got injured and spent a year in a wheelchair and on painkillers. One of my only ways to stay entertained was to watch Youtube videos and I got addicted to Filthy Robot games. He's a very skilled player in multi-player, but many here would wipe the floor with him in single player. Different skillsets. I'd very much like to test out how well I'd do in that universe now that I have a Windows OS.

Even more off topic:

I was very moved by your message. I hope that your doing better now and are out of the wheelchair. I will also open up and tell why I got into Civ5 (more than as a casual Prince/King player): You know what people do when they turn 50? They throw huge parties, get themselves a young lover or at least buy a new sportscar. The more adventurous try something different, like parachuting or mountain climbing. Sounds familiar? Well some take it even more to the extreme: I spent my 50th birthday on the examining table and the doctor told me I had cancer. A couple of days later, my father passed away. Who needs celebrations when you experience things like that? Luckily for me, I live in Finland. 16 days later I was already in surgery and recovered within a month. (Btw. the operation and a few nights at the hospital costed me a couple of hundred euros... My American friends always remind me that I pay "a lot" of taxes as the healthcare system is mostly funded by the taxpayer. I usually tell them that the cost burden is about equal in the USA or Finland but that I feel that I get more value for my money.)

The civ5 streaming community is definitely alive. Filthy is playing other games but babayetu is streaming almost daily. Baba is, in my opinion, even a better multi-player than Filthy ever was. His game as the Huns is fantastic (on youtube as "the stallion who mounted the world") but my personal favourite is

, where he plays as the Boers (modded civ) and stays top in production all game on one city! Lategame he had something like 600 hammers from that one city... The sheer variety in his play is just amazing.

 

[Shark Diver]

Even more off topic:

I was very moved by your message. I hope that your doing better now and are out of the wheelchair. I will also open up and tell why I got into Civ5 (more than as a casual Prince/King player): You know what people do when they turn 50? They throw huge parties, get themselves a young lover or at least buy a new sportscar. The more adventurous try something different, like parachuting or mountain climbing. Sounds familiar? Well some take it even more to the extreme: I spent my 50th birthday on the examining table and the doctor told me I had cancer. A couple of days later, my father passed away. Who needs celebrations when you experience things like that? Luckily for me, I live in Finland. 16 days later I was already in surgery and recovered within a month. (Btw. the operation and a few nights at the hospital costed me a couple of hundred euros... My American friends always remind me that I pay "a lot" of taxes as the healthcare system is mostly funded by the taxpayer. I usually tell them that the cost burden is about equal in the USA or Finland but that I feel that I get more value for my money.)

The civ5 streaming community is definitely alive. Filthy is playing other games but babayetu is streaming almost daily. Baba is, in my opinion, even a better multi-player than Filthy ever was. His game as the Huns is fantastic (on youtube as "the stallion who mounted the world") but my personal favourite is

, where he plays as the Boers (modded civ) and stays top in production all game on one city! Lategame he had something like 600 hammers from that one city... The sheer variety in his play is just amazing.

Thanks for sharing your personal story. When I turned 50 a couple of years ago, I was just learning how to walk again, after telling the doctors that they could not do major surgery and leave me half-crippled. You do a lot of self-reflection in these moments, as I'm sure you understand. I was totally uninsured, and paid all of the costs out of pocket as my business was decimated. I'd rather not get into a political discussion, but understand that there is a tradeoff between individual liberty and a social safety net that all societies must reckon with. Where I have a problem is when others require me to agree with their solution, as that is not ever ok with me, even during a "global pandemic". The "cost burden", at least here in California, is made incrementally worse by government inefficiency and outright fraud, so that always has to be weighed into the equation. As for my story, I got my health back and am back in college shape (or I was before the holiday season), and my business is set to recover to be better than ever this year, but it's been a challenging 4-5 years.

I'm certainly aware of Babayetu from these boards. Will check out his videos. I'm not sure I can carve out 6+ hours of uninterrupted time to play multi-player, but would certainly like to try now that I have a system that can handle that.

Regarding those new modded Civs; which Mod has all of those new Civs. I've seen it on Youtube but can't find it now. There's so much content to wade through on the Mod thread that I haven't started to look for myself. Are there write-ups like Carl's Guides for the new Civs?

Ok, I'm off to finish up this fun game.

 

[Shark Diver]

T220 Update

Spoiler Down goes Askia! :

After WF, I quickly got to Radio with 2 maturing RA's and the Culture from WF drove me through Freedom, Aesthetics and Rationalism. Cities were just grinding out infrastructure and a gradually better pace while my Military CS were taking care of my army. Dido beat me to Ideology by 2 turns and took Autocracy.

I did get Natural Heritage Sites passed, and now those GBR tiles are really sexy. This will pay off even more when I get my Tourism buildings up soon.



Dido has the Ottoman's Cap, so Suleiman is now an afterthought. I'll soon send Dido off to war with distant Venice (who continues to play well). I finally get the tech lead on t204, and with Schools already up and 4 GS already, I'll not be relinquishing that lead, although Dido is turning into a monster.



Since I've got a shortage of Cultural Wonders, I'm now committed to taking a few from other Civs. Askia is going to be first on the list, and I am thinking of a sneak attack on Dido's capital.

Askia isn't doing much, but he has built Chicken Pizza, Uffizi, and Taj. He's also up to 26 tourism, so yeah, he's practically begging me to liberate his artifacts.



It's t204 and my DoF with Askia is about to expire in 3 turns, so I'm building roads towards him and marching my Legions and 4 Cho-ku-nos towards Gao. The problem is, it's too late to take is city with CNK's and I don't have the gold to make it a Gatling Game rush (I'm running at 0GPT at this point) so I divert to Dynamite and build/upgrade 4 Arties. Those CNK's and Legions made mincemeat of his troops and I solved my gold problems somewhat with a lot of pillaging and caravan steals. Then my Arties arrived and Gao is now mine and full of goodies. Interestingly, he built Taj in his only Expo, so I'm going to risk the diplo penalty and wipe him out. There should be more goodies in there.



Dido finally entered modern on t215 through Replaceable Parts, so my upgraded Legions would be facing Infantry of her own if I do decide to attack. I may give it a shot anyways, or I'll wait for bombers. I need to see what my tourism looks like after integrating Songhai.

Here I am building a road to Carthage, just in case. It's some nasty terrain, so even though I have GPT issues still unresolved, I think I might need these.



Science is doing pretty good. I'm about to finish Plastics, then will beeline for Tourism buildings. I'm not sure if I'll bulb and/or use the Rationalism Finisher early or wait for a drive to Internet. I've already bulbed twice (for Dynamite and Replaceable Parts). I'm not sure whether I'll go Patronage or Exploration next. Maybe Honor. Will have to decide soon. All cities are now very healthy thanks to detour into Chemistry and Fertilizer. I bought a 2500 Faith GE for Statue of Liberty (I used 2 earlier on the Radio Wonders). I've got a natural GE coming soon, but I don't think I'm going to build Cristo with International Games coming up. Will have to faith- buy a GS for more IG production, as Dido has a big production lead on me and Songhai's cities won't be up and running in time to help. My Reformation choice of Glory to God appears to have been a good choice, but I'm still regretting not getting Sacred Sites.



My prediction is now a CV around t250-260. The plan will be to upgrade and Infantry/Artie rush her Cap, finish her off with bombers and then hopefully make peace so I can get my Diplomat back in her new capital and run a trade route. I think I'll bulb to make that happen and hope for an earlier victory than I'd get by just turtling. I'll leave a few solid troops back in New Songhai to protect my flank, as I'm expecting warmonger penalties from Portugal and Morocco. Maybe Dido needs to DoW them too. And lest I forget, my Southern Coastal is vulnerable to Frigates, so I'm getting subs out quickly just in case Venice gets any ideas. This has the makings of a very exciting finish.

#1 priority now is winning IG and finishing up my theming after eradicating Askia.

Edit: Forgot to mention, at this point I've only built 2 units all game; my original Scout/Scarcher and 1 Artie. That'll change soon.

 

[Nizef]

Thanks for sharing your personal story. When I turned 50 a couple of years ago, I was just learning how to walk again, after telling the doctors that they could not do major surgery and leave me half-crippled. You do a lot of self-reflection in these moments, as I'm sure you understand. I was totally uninsured, and paid all of the costs out of pocket as my business was decimated. I'd rather not get into a political discussion, but understand that there is a tradeoff between individual liberty and a social safety net that all societies must reckon with. Where I have a problem is when others require me to agree with their solution, as that is not ever ok with me, even during a "global pandemic". The "cost burden", at least here in California, is made incrementally worse by government inefficiency and outright fraud, so that always has to be weighed into the equation. As for my story, I got my health back and am back in college shape (or I was before the holiday season), and my business is set to recover to be better than ever this year, but it's been a challenging 4-5 years.

Sorry, if I triggered something. I am defintely not suggesting for other countries how to run their societies. It was mostly a personal reflection on that our society is functioning well and in my own particular situation, it definitely benefitted me. We can leave the political debate on the sidelines.

 

[Shark Diver]

Sorry, if I triggered something. I am defintely not suggesting for other countries how to run their societies. It was mostly a personal reflection on that our society is functioning well and in my own particular situation, it definitely benefitted me. We can leave the political debate on the sidelines.

Goodness, no need for any apologies. I enjoyed your story. Perhaps the current political tension here in the US has my language a bit more harsh than it should be, as I most certainly didn't want to come across as combative, but I can see where you may have gotten the wrong impression.

I'm pleased you had a good experience. My own experience is that anything the government gets involved with ends up being wasteful, at best. Perhaps that's why I usually go with Freedom

My economics background leads me to believe that even well-run socialistic programs like those found in your part of Europe will someday face the inefficiencies that I see everyday here in the US and particularly in California. It's just a matter of time when the math breaks down. I suppose the US could implement a healthcare safety net, but we'd have to cut out the $billions in foreign aid and "defense" and even more that gets wasted on fraud and government bloat. Yes, I'm a bit cynical.

OK, that's all the politics from me unless you'd like to address any of my points. Reasonable people can disagree without acrimony, and don't think we necessarily disagree on this all that much.

Moderator Action: Let's reserve personal and political discussions for the Off-Topic forum. Thanks. Browd

 

[Nizef]

EDGE#122: Crushing or cruising? (3 CC and CV challenge)

Welcome to the new year also in this thread. Last year started with a game with this civ and I thought it would be funny to begin this year in the same fashion.

Here comes another tough challenge. The name of the game is to settle a maximum of three cities yourself. Of course, you can incorporate additional cities into your empire if you want to. We play as the Mayans on an unmodded Pangaea map with Standard size and Standard speed. QC and QM are turned on and all VCs are enabled as usual. The designed VC is CV. The starting location is nice but not fantastic and you will be short on natural spots for expansions. In my game one of the AIs had a superb game, ending it on 49 cities! As a hint, it might be a good idea to conquer a nearby capital early like I did. This is in a way back to CV basics but the dynamic of the game made for a thrilling ride. I hope that you will face an equally bumby and enjoyable journey.

I played according to HOF rules and also submitted my game. There is a short recap of it behind the spoiler.

Spoiler :

SIP. BO: Scoutx2, Pyramid, Granary and Settler. Only expand four tiles to the N. Then I built five Archers and a Spearman and went to conquer Karakorum. Mission accomplished on t60. Second religion with EM/Tithe/Pagodas/Plowshares/IP. Monty attacked Sweden early and wiped them out. As usual I played a little too fast but got some of those early wonders that I like (Oracle on t87 and Hagia Sofia on about t97). NC already on t75 and Education on t103. I freed the same Milanese Worker two times and had a good relation with them all game (until Monty conquered them late in the game).

The midgame got off to a nice start when I built Sistine and LToP and used the GE to rush GlobeT. I continued in the same fashion and hard built Uffizi, Porcelain and Louvre as well. Maybe just a little bit too greedy... Karakorum turned out to be a good city because it had decent produciton and above all it had Coal. I had to keep Monty busy and he had wars with the Incas, Brazil, Mongolia and England during the midgame. The Incas were quick to dig up AS so I only got 6-7 which was a disapointment. I was third to pick an Ideology and obviously I went Freedom. Nobody else thought that was a good idea and the AIs even passed a resolution to have Order as the World Ideology. My culture pool was strong enough and despite these setbacks I never had more than -7 unhappiness from Ideology pressure. So far I was friendly with everybody.

The final part of the game was about focusing on my science while also keeping Monty at "work". He took out both England and Mongolia and left Brazil with three cities only. Unfortunately he conquered most CS as well. He hated me towards the end but I was able to divert his actions all the time. The Incas were strong enough to stand their ground. At the end I won an undramatic CV on t296. Interestingly all AIs both hated me and denounced me and Monty finished the game on 49 cities! Good to see an AI do well as he was on par in tech count as well. SP: full Tradition, full Aestethics, full Exploration, full Rationalism and Freedom 7.

 

[Shark Diver]

Even more off topic:

I was very moved by your message. I hope that your doing better now and are out of the wheelchair. I will also open up and tell why I got into Civ5 (more than as a casual Prince/King player): You know what people do when they turn 50? They throw huge parties, get themselves a young lover or at least buy a new sportscar. The more adventurous try something different, like parachuting or mountain climbing. Sounds familiar? Well some take it even more to the extreme: I spent my 50th birthday on the examining table and the doctor told me I had cancer. A couple of days later, my father passed away. Who needs celebrations when you experience things like that? Luckily for me, I live in Finland. 16 days later I was already in surgery and recovered within a month. (Btw. the operation and a few nights at the hospital costed me a couple of hundred euros... My American friends always remind me that I pay "a lot" of taxes as the healthcare system is mostly funded by the taxpayer. I usually tell them that the cost burden is about equal in the USA or Finland but that I feel that I get more value for my money.)

The civ5 streaming community is definitely alive. Filthy is playing other games but babayetu is streaming almost daily. Baba is, in my opinion, even a better multi-player than Filthy ever was. His game as the Huns is fantastic (on youtube as "the stallion who mounted the world") but my personal favourite is

, where he plays as the Boers (modded civ) and stays top in production all game on one city! Lategame he had something like 600 hammers from that one city... The sheer variety in his play is just amazing.

I was able to watch the first hour of Baba's Boer game. Even though I don't understand all of the modded changes, and quick speed throws me off, it is highly entertaining. Thanks for the recommendation.

 

[Shark Diver]

EDGE 121 - T256 Cultural Victory

Spoiler Dido, you will wear my bluejeans! :

When I last left off, the goal was to take out Dido's Cap to hurry the victory. Taking out Songhai was great for adding to my theming bonuses, even with the expected Diplomatic penalties. I didn't really need anything from the other Civs pretending to be in this game, as this was always about me vs the runaway Dido. Big mistake was annexing Tomboctu, as it slowed my late game science and I never got to Internet. This isn't a big surprise, considering the lack of Tradition meant growth was always going to be a challenge.

I simply could not get a road up to Carthage due to all of my allied CS blocking the way. When Dido dropped a new city on Zurich's borders, there was no way I could get troops through for a quick hit. In retrospect, i could have used a General to clear the path, as I had enough influence with Zurich to afford the damaged relations from stealing their land. If I were to play this again, I'd have done so, but Dido had actually conquered so much land I'd immediately be in a 2-front war. A lot of her troops were in the Eastern part of the world, with easy access to my newly acquired Sonhai territory. I wasn't at risk of losing at war with my tech lead and #2 army, but with all those Generals she likely has from 200+ turns of successful war, it wasn't something I wanted to deal with.

There really was no way to get to her without Generaling:



Although I had great relations all game up to this point, I knew everyone would hate me after killing off Askia, Dido was smart enough to keep her victims alive so the ire from mercy killing was all directed towards me. No worries, as I was not at all worried about anyone invading me. I had advanced experienced troops, very good defensive terrain, CS allies blocking me from the moster-known-as-Dido, Ethiopia's bonus combined with Defender of the Faith.....yeah, I felt invulnerable besides my Southern coastal who was about to built subs. So I decided to say "screw the world" and did things like proposing the Holy Order of Shark Diving as the World Religion (it would have passed the turn after I won) and voting against Venice's Art's Funding proposal with all of my delegates. Nobody liked me very quickly, with the exception of Morocco, who had recently followed me into Freedom.



International Games was obviously a big deal, and Dido had a 200+ hammer lead on me. I bought a 1500 faith GA to keep me in Golden Age (enhanced by Freedom and captured Chicken Pizza) for IG. It actually wasn't needed, but I spent the rest of the game in GA thanks to that, so no regrets. IG was a slam dunk, and I actually diverted all cities to other endeavors after breaking 2200 production into that.



There's really not much else to tell, I had a ton of Scientists, but never got my raw science over 1000 and should have stayed on 5 cities. I built roads to a late expo Dido was kind enough to plant on the doorsteps of my new Songhai lands, so my Musicians could get there more quickly. I burned the scientists to get to Airports, and bought 2 Musicians once I hit 600 Tourism. Every city had been finishing up tourism buildings and IG bonus was ending next turn, so this was actually timed pretty well. Since I had no open borders with anybody, I just used my Infantry and a few planes to smash my way in and the game was over.



This was a fantastic game and I give my compliments to the creator. I made plenty of mistakes, but am still happy with the victory time and learned a bit along the way.

Observations and mistakes:

• The suggested Social Policy guidelines forcing me into Piety had some good and bad features.
• Most of my last several policies were useless, but I got through important trees much earlier than normal.
• If given a strong start in Faith and Culture, this strategy could definitely produce a sub-200 Sacred Sites victory.
• Because of the slower early growth, and therefore likely later Guilds, a Futurism strategy would be pretty powerful and I maybe should have tried that out, but I built Guilds early even though I couldn't work the slots (Not getting Pisa changed many plans).
• As mentioned above, I should have Generaled into Carthage. I had the troops and she was on the opposite side of the world. I waited because I cared too much about my popularity and was a bit worried about my new exposed Songhai flank. This was a misjudgment and I probably could have shaved 10+ turns had I executed this.
• Some bad luck: a natural Musician I had sent swimming towards Carthage got kicked out of her territory the turn before the concert. I ended up swimming all the way to Venice as I was not ready to DoW her. Had I had more mid-game gold, I'd have built roads earlier for my Musicians to get to the West Coast sooner and this would have shaved ~5 turns.
• The whole Social Policy strategy was off for me. I never even got to use the Rationalism finisher, as I was being greedy and hoping I could get to Internet to use it. This might have worked had I not annexed the 6th city.
• I did ok on Archeologists and theming, but not knowing what was inside Askia's twin cities led me to have 3 open artifact slots.
• I think the key to my game was good growth (considering the circumstances), good early ruin luck, and some really good execution of CS dominance. I lost my first spy very late, and actually only lost my first unit on the final turn. Also, getting the stronger AI's to war early enough paved the way quite a bit.
• I could have easily stolen another 1-3 workers from Dido in the early game and set her back more than I thought I had. At the time, I was assuming I'd get a late Pyramids, but that went right after I made peace. Going forward I'll not be so nice. My workers started getting bored around t180, so I had the right ratio, but when a map hands you and easy multi-steal scenario, milk it more.
• Freedom was the correct choice for my game. The early Legions gave me Songhai. This was necessary due to no Tradition growth.
• There were several other mistakes I made, but you get the point. I'm still ticked off I didn't get to use the early Sacred Sites, and I'm going to use this Policy path the next time I roll a strong start with good Religion and early Culture. If someone else can pull off Sacred Sites with 4+ cities with 2 Faith buildings, I think this map can be won with a sub-200 CV.

Thanks again for a very fun scenario. I had a blast and will be playing more of these EDGE games as long as time permits. I hope my write-ups aren't too longwinded, but it's been awhile since I was active on this site and I'm hoping to help inspire discussion with the detail. Feel free to suggest that I be more concise.

Good to be back here. Hoping more of my old acquaintances here return as well.

 

[Shark Diver]

EDGE#122: Crushing or cruising? (3 CC and CV challenge)

Welcome to the new year also on in this thread. Last year started with a game with this civ and I thought it would be funny to begin this year in the same fashion.

Here comes another tough challenge. The name of the game is to settle a maximum of three cities yourself. Of course, you can incorporate additional cities into your empire if you want to. We play as the Mayans on an unmodded Pangaea map with Standard size and Standard speed. QC and QM are turned on and all VCs are enabled as usual. The designed VC is CV. The starting location is nice but not fantastic and you will be short on natural spots for expansions. In my game one of the AIs had a superb game, ending it on 49 cities! As a hint, it might be a good idea to conquer a nearby capital early as I did. This is in a way back to CV basics but the dynamic of the game made for a thrilling ride. I hope that you will face an equally bumby and enjoyable journey.

I played according to HOF rules and also submitted my game. There is a short recap of it behind the spoiler.

Spoiler :

SIP. BO: Scoutx2, Pyramid, Granary and Settler. Only expand four tiles to the N. Then I built five Archers and a Spearman and went to conquer Karakorum. Mission accomplished on t60. Second religion with EM/Tithe/Pagodas/Plowshares/IP. Monty attacked Sweden early and wiped them out. As usual I played a little too fast but got some of those early wonders that I like (Oracle on t87 and Hagia Sofia on about t97). NC already on t75 and Education on t103. I freed the same Milanese Worker two times and had a good relation with them all game (until Monty conquered them late in the game).

The midgame got off to a nice start when I built Sistine and LToP and used the GE to rush GlobeT. I continued in the same fashion and hard built Uffizi, Porcelain and Louvre as well. Maybe just a little bit too greedy... Karakorum turned out to be a good city because it had decent produciton and above all it had Coal. I had to keep Monty busy and he had wars with the Incas, Brazil, Mongolia and England during the midgame. The Incas were quick to dig up AS so I only got 6-7 which was a disapointment. I was third to pick an Ideology and obviously I went Freedom. Nobody else thought that was a good idea and the AIs even passed a resolution to have Order as the World Ideology. My culture pool was strong enough and despite these setbacks I never had more than -7 unhappiness from Ideology pressure. So far I was friendly with everybody.

The final part of the game was about focusing on my science while also keeping Monty at "work". He took out both England and Mongolia and left Brazil with three cities only. Unfortunately he conquered most CS as well. He hated me towards the end but I was able to divert his actions all the time. The Incas were strong enough to stand their ground. At the end I won an undramatic CV on t296. Interestingly all AIs both hated me and denounced me and Monty finished the game on 49 cities! Good to see an AI do well as he was on par in tech count as well. SP: full Tradition, full Aestethics, full Exploration, full Rationalism and Freedom 7.

I peaked at your opening screenshot. My initial thought is that going for CV without a river start is probably better for the Mayans than anyone else, given their GP UA. I'll read your game summary after I've commited to a strategy that can't be influenced by foreknowledge.

I've got 2 early strategies in mind:

1. Beeline for HG to make up for the lack of river.
2. Take God King, rely on the UB for religion, and beeline for Theology,

The Salt start suggests both could work. Since I can only settle 3 cities,

Looks like we are settling in a corner of the world, so the Scout-Atlantist-Pyramid BO won't be penalized.

I'm mediocre at timing the GP spawns. Will have to read up on the Mayan calendar. Remind me, how'd that whole 2012 prediction work out?

What was your finishing time Nizef? It's advantageous to have a benchmark set by another skilled player.

 

[Nizef]

EDGE 121 - T256 Cultural Victory




This was a fantastic game and I give my compliments to the creator. I made plenty of mistakes, but am still happy with the victory time and learned a bit along the way.

Observations and mistakes:

• The suggested Social Policy guidelines forcing me into Piety had some good and bad features.
• Most of my last several policies were useless, but I got through important trees much earlier than normal.
• If given a strong start in Faith and Culture, this strategy could definitely produce a sub-200 Sacred Sites victory.
• Because of the slower early growth, and therefore likely later Guilds, a Futurism strategy would be pretty powerful and I maybe should have tried that out, but I built Guilds early even though I couldn't work the slots (Not getting Pisa changed many plans).
• As mentioned above, I should have Generaled into Carthage. I had the troops and she was on the opposite side of the world. I waited because I cared too much about my popularity and was a bit worried about my new exposed Songhai flank. This was a misjudgment and I probably could have shaved 10+ turns had I executed this.
• Some bad luck: a natural Musician I had sent swimming towards Carthage got kicked out of her territory the turn before the concert. I ended up swimming all the way to Venice as I was not ready to DoW her. Had I had more mid-game gold, I'd have built roads earlier for my Musicians to get to the West Coast sooner and this would have shaved ~5 turns.
• The whole Social Policy strategy was off for me. I never even got to use the Rationalism finisher, as I was being greedy and hoping I could get to Internet to use it. This might have worked had I not annexed the 6th city.
• I did ok on Archeologists and theming, but not knowing what was inside Askia's twin cities led me to have 3 open artifact slots.
• I think the key to my game was good growth (considering the circumstances), good early ruin luck, and some really good execution of CS dominance. I lost my first spy very late, and actually only lost my first unit on the final turn. Also, getting the stronger AI's to war early enough paved the way quite a bit.
• I could have easily stolen another 1-3 workers from Dido in the early game and set her back more than I thought I had. At the time, I was assuming I'd get a late Pyramids, but that went right after I made peace. Going forward I'll not be so nice. My workers started getting bored around t180, so I had the right ratio, but when a map hands you and easy multi-steal scenario, milk it more.
• Freedom was the correct choice for my game. The early Legions gave me Songhai. This was necessary due to no Tradition growth.
• There were several other mistakes I made, but you get the point. I'm still ticked off I didn't get to use the early Sacred Sites, and I'm going to use this Policy path the next time I roll a strong start with good Religion and early Culture. If someone else can pull off Sacred Sites with 4+ cities with 2 Faith buildings, I think this map can be won with a sub-200 CV.

Thanks again for a very fun scenario. I had a blast and will be playing more of these EDGE games as long as time permits. I hope my write-ups aren't too longwinded, but it's been awhile since I was active on this site and I'm hoping to help inspire discussion with the detail. Feel free to suggest that I be more concise.

Good to be back here. Hoping more of my old acquaintances here return as well.

[/SPOILER]

Good to see you back, even if I was not active myself during your previous spell. By studying @vadalaz games and reports, I have learnt that my early game is too poor to set me up for wins in the t200-t230 range, because I will not be able to dash through the tech tree fast enough in the midgame. Your write-up confirms that.

To be honest, I knew that Piety might work but your finishing time just blew me away! I think that other skilled players (of those now active), like Tiberiu and TMNTurtle will have it all to do, if they are to beat your finishing time! Maybe vadalaz could beat you, if he finds the time to try.

Your write-ups are just excellent and it is pure joy to read them. Thank you!

Moving on to #122, my finishing time is nowadays available in the name of the last screenshot, indicating that I won on t296 in this particular case. This way, any player will get an understanding of my finishing time without having a look at the screenshot itself.

I found the following description of the Long Count bonus: "The Long Count begins when the game does, and triggers at predictable turns, every 394 years in-game: Turn 62, 72, 86, 101, 117, 133, 152, 183, and 234." This goes for games on standard speed.

I will be bold and suggest some other games that might be of interest to you, because they are more culture oriented: EDGE#42, #59, #93, #100, #101 and as a joker also #105.

 

[Shark Diver]

EDGE #122 - Early Game

Spoiler I would have normally re-rolled this game..... :

If left to my own devices, I'd have not played this game past the first few turns given the lack of a river. But given the constraints of only founding <3 cities, I can foresee a strong 2-city early game followed up by mid-game conquest of my way-too-near neighbor.

Early details:

• Because I saw Nizef's starting spot, I thought I'd try something different and grab the mountains spot. Small city count and an Observatory sounds kinda interesting.
• Now I have a 4 Salt/3 Wheat Cap, with plenty of future mines. A caravan or two should make this a very strong early Cap and maybe a decent one long term.
• The Spearman upgrade has resulted in 2 early worker steals with more coming (if needed). Early Atlantist is going to try to wreak some havoc, but I'll need a couple more to do any real harm and that ain't happening as I'm grabbing Artemis and HG if I can. Then it's off to Philosophy. I don't mind the later Philo, as I'm expecting an unusual game so all of the GA timing will be off. (Note: Artemis is usually a mistake, but I suspect it'll be a good thing this game.....more on this much later I suspect).
• None of my neighbors are in Tradition so HG looks good:
• I took God King, but was seriously considering Sun King. I suspect I'll have more growth than tiles (if I get Artemis....which I should given the strong start), so chose the early game boost. I like to grab non-faith pantheons when playing a Faith Civ like Mayans.

• I'm going to terrorize my neighbor, but I don't anticipate having the time to build real units to take his cap early, so this looks to be a Turtle game for awhile.

While beelining for HG, I got a bit of a a boost:


Here's my Wonder-mongering Cap: