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[BNW] Enjoyable Deity Games

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Nizef, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. Nizef

    Nizef King

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2018
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    Finland
    Here is a recap of all games in the Enjoyable Deity Games Experience (EDGE) series so far:

    1. Korea (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 1
    2. the Shoshone (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with Really Advanced Setup (RAS)), Page 1
    3. America (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 3
    4. Denmark (Continents, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 3
    5. Byzantium (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS). Page 3
    6. Germany (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 3
    7. Polynesia (Small Continents Plus, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 4
    8. Brazil (Continents, Standard speed, Large size, Modded with RAS), Page 4
    9. Mongolia (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 4
    10. Spain (Terra, Standard speed, Large size, Modded with RAS), Page 5
    11. Carthage (Continents, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS), Page 5
    12. the Aztecs (Lakes, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 5
    13. England (Continents, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS), Page 6
    14. Korea 2 (Small Continents, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS), Page 6
    15. Venice (Fractal, Epic speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS), Page 6
    16. Egypt (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS), Page 6
    17. the Huns (Oval, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS), Page 6
    18. Japan (Hellblazers Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded both with RAS and Hellblazers map script), Page 6
    19. China (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS), Page 7
    20. Babylon (Hellblazers Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded both with RAS and Hellblazers map script), Page 7
    21. Polynesia 2 (Hellblazers Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded both with RAS and Hellblazers map script), Page 7
    22. Korea 3 (Hellblazers Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded both with RAS and Hellblazers map script), Page 7
    23. Russia (Hellblazers Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded both with RAS and Hellblazers map script), Page 7
    24. Portugal (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS), Page 7
    25. France (Lakes, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 7
    26. Germany 2 (Lakes, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 7
    27. England 2 (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS), Page 7
    28. Sweden (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 7
    29. Arabia (Sandstorm, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 8
    30. the Mayans (Tectonics map, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with both RAS and the Tectonics map template), Page 8
    31. Ethiopia (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 8
    32. Assyria (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 8
    33. Poland (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS), Page 8
    34. India (Pangaea, Standard speed, Small size, Modded with RAS), Page 8
    35. the Aztecs 2 (Hellblazers Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with Hellblazers map script), Page 8
    36. Morocco (Sandstorm, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 8
    37. Babylon 2 (Large Islands, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 8
    38. Spain 2 (Inland Sea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 8
    39. Greece (Fractal, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 8
    40. Carthage 2 (Fractal, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 8
    41. Indonesia (Archipelago, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 8
    42. the Mayans 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Piety challenge, Page 9
    43. Siam (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Patronage partial challenge, Page 9
    44. the Shoshone 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 9
    45. Poland 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Honor challenge, Page 9
    46. the Netherlands (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Liberty challenge, Page 10
    47. the Aztecs 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 10
    48. the Celts (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 10
    49. the Zulus (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Aesthetics challenge, Page 11
    50. Austria (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 11
    51. Persia (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 11
    52. the Ottomans (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Religion challenge, Page 11
    53. Rome (Fractal, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 11
    54. Songhai (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 11
    55. the Incas (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 11
    56. Russia 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 11
    57. India 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), CV challenge, Page 11
    58. Germany 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 11
    59. Byzantium 2 (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Religion challenge, Page 11
    60. the Iroquois (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Aesthetics challenge, Page 12
    61. America 2 (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), DomV challenge, Page 12
    62. Sweden 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Petra challenge, Page 12
    63. Morocco 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), partial Commerce challenge, Page 12
    64. England 3 (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), partial UN challenge, Page 12
    65. Portugal 2 (Continents, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), partial elimination challenge, Page 12
    66. Egypt 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 12
    67. Polynesia 3 (Archipelago, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 13
    68. Sweden 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 13
    69. Germany 4 (Pangaea, Epic speed, Large size, Unmodded), War academy, part 1, DomV challenge, Page 13
    70. the Huns 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), War academy, part 2, Page 13
    71. Spain 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Huge size, Unmodded), Page 13
    72. Denmark 2 (Lakes, Standard speed, Standard size, Otherwise unmodded but Rotate Starting Position was used), Page 13
    73. Venice 2 (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), DipV challenge, Page 13
    74. Carthage 3 (Hellblazer´s Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with Hellblazer´s map script), CV challenge, Page 13
    75. China 2 (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), War academy, part 3, DomV challenge, Page 14
    76. Mongolia 2 (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), War academy, part 4, Page 14
    77. Brazil 2 (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 15
    78. the Shoshone 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 15
    79. Assyria 2 (Terra Incognita, Standard speed, Standard size, Otherwise unmodded but Rotate Starting Position was used), Page 15
    80. Indonesia 2 (Small Continents, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), No Liberty challenge, Page 16
    81. Portugal 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 16
    82. Japan 2 (Ice Age, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), No Order challenge, Page 16
    83. Persia 2 (Random map, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 16
    84. the Netherlands 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 17
    85. Denmark 3 (Tiny Islands, Standard speed, Large size, Raging Barbarians, Otherwise unmodded but Rotate Starting Position was used), Page 17
    86. America 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Large size, Unmodded), No Tradition challenge, Page 18
    87. the Incas 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 18
    88. Korea 4 (Pangaea, Quick speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 19
    89. the Ottomans 2 (Continents, Standard speed, Large size, Unmodded), Page 20
    90. Arabia 2 (Lakes, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 20
    91. Ethiopia 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Pantheon challenge, Page 21
    92. Greece 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 21
    93. France 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), CV challenge, Page 21
    94. Siam 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded),Incense challenge, Page 22
    95. Byzantium 3 (Continents, Epic speed, Large size, Unmodded), Page 22
    96. England 4 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 23
    97. Sweden 4 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 24
    98. Babylon 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 24
    99. the Zulus 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Large size, Unmodded), Page 24
    100. Germany 5 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), CV challenge, Page 25
    101. Brazil 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 25
    102. Austria 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 26
    103. England 5 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, modded with RAS and Acken´s balance mod), Page 27
    104. the Celts 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 27
    105. Rome 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Large size, Unmodded), Page 28
    106. Songhai 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 28
    107. Poland 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 29
    108. Russia 3 (Lakes, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), DomV challenge, Page 29
    109. China 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 30
    110. the Aztecs 4 (Lakes, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), DomV challenge, Page 30
    111. the Shoshone 4 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 32
    112. Korea 5 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 32
    113. the Mayans 3 (Continents, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 32
    114. Assyria 3 (Continents, Standard speed, Huge size, Unmodded), Partial domination challenge, Page 33
    115. Japan 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 33
    116. Egypt 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 33
    117. India 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Religion challenge, Page 33
    118. Germany 6 (Lakes, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), DomV challenge, Page 34
    119. the Zulus 3 (Lakes, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), DomV challenge, Page 34
    120. Carthage 4 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 34
    121. Ethiopia 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Piety and CV challenge, Page 34
    122. the Mayans 4 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), CV challenge, Page 35
    123. the Ottomans 3 (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 37
    124. the Aztecs 5 (Lakes, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), CV challenge, Page 38

    The subseries MIDGE consists of:
    1. Finland (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size. Otherwise unmodded but the civ to play is Finland), Page 26
    2. The Papal States (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size. Otherwise unmodded but the civ to play is The Papal States. You also need Austria-Hungary.), Page 27
    3. Phoenisia (Continents, Standard speed, Standard size. Otherwise unmodded but the civ to play is the Phoenician civilization.), Page 27
    4. Norway (Ice Age, Standard speed, Standard size. Otherwise unmodded but the civ to play is Norway. You also need the modded civs Finland, Iceland and Scotland.), Page 29
    5. Belgium (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Otherwise unmodded but the civ to play is Belgium), Page 30
     
  2. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2013
    Messages:
    896
    Location:
    San Diego (for now)
    EDGE#123 T188 Update
    Spoiler This is a slog :

    I did not commit to going to war until too late to pull off a quick hit on Byzantine. She's pumping out units furiously and I'm just picking them off and harvesting XP, while I tech for Dynamite. I'll give more detail later, but I screwed this game up with indecisiveness and will have to grind it out. I've still got the ability for all Victory Conditions, as I've got decent infrastructure and no runaways, but it'll be one of my slower finishing times. Right now I'm thinking I'll get a CV thru conquest or Dom Victory around the same time.


    T264 Dom Victory
    Spoiler Fun Map - Awful Play By Me :

    Spoiler Fun Map - Awful Play By Me :

    I played this so poorly I'm not going to bother writing it up. I pretty much grabbed a big tech lead and just forced my way across the map, eventually backstabbing Assyria to finish it off. It wasn't much fun because of my indecisiveness on strategy and a bunch of strategic mistakes (like not getting a quick kill on Byzantium).

    It's a fun map which forced me to try different things, so that part was cool. I haven't had to use navy or gone Autocracy in ages. Maybe I'm just a peaceful person at heart.

     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2021
  3. Nizef

    Nizef King

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Finland
    EDGE#125: The low risk warmonger

    Those who feel that the previous game was a bit too easy, could focus their attention to this one instead. I am also trying to fill a gap: I was shocked when I had a look in the Hall of Fame and noticed that there has been NO Deity DomV contribution with this civ on standard size&speed before! I mean really?? That had to be corrected and thus I present a game with Mongolia on an unmodded Pangaea map with Standard size and Standard speed. QC and QM are turned on and all VCs are enabled as usual. The designed VC is DomV.

    Is this as easy as expected? Well, yes and no. When I play Mongolia I usually overestimate my abilities and run into problems on around t160-200 and while the Keshiks are OP they will not stay relevant all game. To avoid this I took a low risk approach, only conquering 2 AIs with Keshiks and then waiting for Modern and Atomic units to finish off the game. Hence the title. The start is nice and you have one nice and one unpredictable neighbour. Since we play as Genghis, I added China to the line up. I would estimate that better warmongers will sweep the floor in around 180-230 turns but this is definitely winnable also for less experienced Deity warmongers. And if you feel like doing something totally different (SV/CV/DipV), it is also "allowed". Anyway, I hope you will like the map and your opportunities. Enjoy!

    I played according to HOF rules and also submitted my game. There is a short recap of it behind the spoiler.

    Spoiler :

    Settled t1 on the hill next to the mountain. That Observatory will come in handy in a game like this. BO: Scoutx2, Shrine, Settler, Granary, Settler. I got the fourth or fifth religion with EM/Tithe/Pagodas/RC/IP. Pretty much what I would have wanted anyway. Pacal forwardsettled me, which was good for early trade. Dido didn´t like my third city and declared war two times in the early stages (as in the pic from t95). NC on t80 and Education on t104 but I had to wait another 12 turns for Keshiks. Then off to the east to take out Pacal (ha had already managed a massive religion and 4-5 wonders). My own culture was pitiful but now it was full speed ahead with the UU. Palenque fell easily and then off to Dido´s territory. She didn´t last many turns and India moved in and finished her off.

    In the midgame I tried to tech as fast as possible and I managed to choose Ideologies as number two. India went Freedom but I obviously chose Authocracy. Directly after I attacked China with Artillery and Keshiks and took four cities from them (burnong two of them and keeping Shanghai and Beijing). Happiness was becoming a problem but it was still easy to advance so I declared war on India as well. Delhi and Mumbai fell in about 10 turns. During the peace negotiations I decided to recall Dido to life. Assyria had a go at Siam reducing them to almost nothing. They were also on par with me in tech count and I decided to wait for better units before taking on them. China followed me into Authocracy and eventually became my buddy and trading partner. They proposed some good things to the WC and I was happy to vote for them.

    I waited until Tanks and Rocket Artillery before sweeping the floor with Assyria, taking Sukhothai and Assur and a couple of other cities in about ten turns. Happiness was an acute problem and I had to build Barracks, Armories, Castles etc. as fast as possible. Pacal (on his two obscure cities) and Siam (with their one city) declared war on me in the late game and managed to pillage four tiles combined... Then off to Venice (which had both Notre Dame and Forbidden) and finish the game in "great" style. Six RAs, 2 AA Guns and 4 Tanks were enough to deal with Venice in just three turns. However he was not defenceless, because he had Battleships and GWBs. Anyway, this patient "low risk" warmonger strategy worked very well and resulted in a resounding victory on t282. Eventful game but I felt that I had control all the time. What a nice feeling! SP: full Tradition, Honor 3, Commerce opener, Rationalism 4 and Authocracy 6.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
  4. TMNTurtle

    TMNTurtle Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2020
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    Location:
    Swedenland
    I'm curious about these kind of decisions. I'm more of a completionist myself when it comes to policy trees. Of course, over on reddit many top players favour additional openers and Tiberiu seems to, if you don't mind me saying, approach the policy tree as a menu of sorts. Adapting policy decision to the very specific needs of each game, rather than trying to adapt the execution to a pre-determined style (I suppose playing the bully/warmonger style may contribute to picking this policymaking style). What I'm wondering is if there is a complex rationale between what to pick, in terms of delaying later policies, or if it is more of a "play by feel" kind of thing?

    I'm interested in this decision as well, mostly because the AI has yet to let me even have JE, and I've always had to fall back on TtGoG, which has felt lacking even with the extra GE:s. Especially with what has been shared and demonstrated about JE, but it seems you're as disappointed as I am, at least initially.

    Do you favour such late-game agression in otherwise peaceful CV-games in general? I've been meaning to look in to it, but I like Sim-City way too much..
     
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  5. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

    Joined:
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    Location:
    San Diego (for now)
    EDGE#124 - T102 Update
    Spoiler Population Overload :

    Decent ruin luck got me a Spearman and Scarcher.

    BO was Scout - Scout- Jaguar - Settler (for Uluru) - Artemis - Settler - Settler - Oracle - Floating Gardens - NC (t91) - Filler buildings - late HG - now time for Unis.

    I settled a diagonal line, which isn't ideal, but Pacal is down to his cap so I'll be adding that to my empire once our DoF expires around t115. He built Great Mosk of Jeannie for me, and that'll come in handy.

    I'll reach Education on t103, so pop is really carrying me. If I can stay happy, this is going to be a very tall empire.

    I barely got 5th religion, and the Holy Order of Shark Diving now consists of One With Nature-Tithe-Pagodas- Religious Texts - Cultural Happiness. Someone spread Cathedrals and Mosques to my 2 Western expos, so I'm going to have some fun with that and hopefully beat them to Sacred Sites.

    Kammy has DoF'd me and we are currently warring with America. I'm just building up Culture and XP while waiting for Xbows. Incas are smacking England around, having already captured York, and they just offered me DoF.

    I'm looking good for getting all Unis up before Workshops, so this could be a game where I do very well in Renaissance Wonders to drive me to CV.

    Biggest concerns now are happiness and Faith generation to buy all of my buildings and reconvert my cities.

    Cap t102.png Empire t102.png

    After taking Palanque, the current plan is to turtle for awhile or maybe take out London. That'll depend on how the rest of the world feels about me finishing off Pacal. It's a hard map to travel and I don't have the GPT to be building roads all over the place so I don't foresee a total war game.

     
  6. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

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    It's a combination of "play by feel" and sticking to a plan. My worst games, like this Ottoman game, are when I change strategies based on game developments. Openers are mostly nice, and can help provide temporary help, but the really good games have trees completed early. I'm usually stick-to-the-plan type, but these EDGE games have gotten me out of my comfort zone a bit and I'm experimenting more than usual. I almost always open Tradition, for the border growth even more than for the Culture.

    Has someone written up some good stuff on JE? If so, please point it out.

    JE is obviously one of the best Reformation Beliefs, and as you point out, the AI loves it so we don't get it very often. If I don't have a strong Culture game going, I'm not going to Reform before Renaissance, when Rationalism almost always needs to be opened and at least 1 Policy taken. I feel I need that science boost to power to Ideologies and there are many techs I want to be first to. The tradeoff between Religion and Science is a game changing moment, and I almost always default to Science.

    I absolutely favor it when you can grab a good cap before it's too late to do anything other than slow you down and p*ss off the AI. A lot of it depends on what VC I'm going for, but in a CV game, grabbing some nice Wonders and adding to the raw Tourism makes a lot of sense, especially if you're riding the IG Tourism bonus to victory. It really comes down to the strategic and diplo strategy. Does it open you up to invasion? Will it cost you the needed Open Borders from other AI?

    I'd say it's probably 50/50 for how often I do the late war thing in Sim-city CV games. The last thing I want is a drawn out war, so if I can get another AI to take out the target's troops, then move in for a quick kill with advanced units, which we should have by this point, the risk/reward can be pretty good. Plus, I always want a General around for when some d*ck of a neighbor starts Generaling my important tiles.
     
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  7. Tiberiu

    Tiberiu Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
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    Bucharest
    Such a good question, and in a way, you already seem to have the answer. I took the liberty to answer this question with my 0.02, since I like discussing policies, and I'm writing this as an average player by the standards of quick finishing turn time of a deity game. My most recent game with India (diplo victory 381) is what I consider my very best game, better than my only quick victory 232 Diplo with Zulu, simply because it was the most difficult game of all, excluding first deity games played that were losses. In my opinion, the answer is in a way pretty simple, but I might be wrong on this and the regularly quick players should have possibly different insights.

    First, I'd say that the map settings like map type or game speed matter quite a lot too and influence the strenghts of policies - for example Exploration on a water based map -, Patronage is arguably better the bigger the map because there are more CSs...
    Obviously what Civ we play matters a lot too with some policies working better for some civs than others.
    Quick finish time with a "neutral civ" more or less seems to require Tradition+Rationalism completed with maybe Patronage>Scholasticism in between for the science bonuses, as you can't always be expected to be able to win domination victories (especially on non-pangaea maps), while some civs like Huns might finish Domination games quickly just by going Liberty or Honor for the war bonuses and snowball over the map. It has been suggested by some players that any non-domination is basically science-based since when you're advanced, any victory type becomes more easily available and I think this point of view has merit.

    For players like myself who don't care as much about finish time and have certain fixations (like founding a religion, I think I over-rate the importance of it), policy choices might be influenced by this. For example taking Liberty hoping for a prophet with the Closer, when objectively full tradition without religion might make more sense. I would expect warmonger players to similarly prefer other combinations - the strategy known as HCA - for example, because they enjoy the game that results. Players who like to build World Wonders might take policies just to be able to build a certain Wonder (like Louvre, Big Ben or Forbidden Palace, etc), when possibly it wouldn't be the best idea. So I'd say it's just that there are multiple styles of play that different players might enjoy, some arguably more faster than others, some arguably more subjectvely enjoyable than others, some might require more micromanagement than others. Possibly the singular thing that I think seems to be a consensus in the Civ5 community is that Piety tree is a bit underpowered compared to the others, other than that, the game offers plenty of variety with all policies being able to win Diety games, boiling down to "play by feel" kind of thing.
     
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  8. Nizef

    Nizef King

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    A brief comment about JE: In my opinion it is, most of the time, not worth while. My thinking being, that going Piety means that I am most likely not going for a SV. Taking JE would be a compensation for poor production capacity in several/most/all key cities but otherwise I would rather use my faith for GPs and faith buildings. TtGoG is in my opinion a versatile choice and many times the reason for me diving deep into Piety.

    On Piety in general: I have also found that the finisher is in fact very strong in a cultural game. Combined with stealing a couple of fully charged neighbouring Profets it will accelerate my culture generation nicely.

    It seems like you are well on a path to success, just as I had expected. In my game, London was of little value for a CV, but she has probably cranked out some wonders in your game?
     
  9. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

    Joined:
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    Location:
    San Diego (for now)
    If you've got a strong Faith game, and either all of your Faith buildings are up or you don't have any, JE can really help compound your science. Getting those Science buildings up ~10 turns early is really powerful, especially because they come at a time when you have a lot of other important buildings in your queue.

    I consider TtGoG to usually be my 3rd choice. This changes if I'm going something other that full Tradition. But in general, with a strong CV game, I'm going to be able to faith buy GA/GW/GM's anyways. I always want to be able to faith buy a GE or two, so it's either full Tradition or TrGoG. My games usually end before I finish Rationalism (I'm always saving that free tech for something important), so unless I have no garden cities, I make enough natural GS. My point is that TtGoG is more situational for a lot of games, whereas JE is always useful. If I'm going CV, Sacred Sites is my target from turn 1, but since getting Faith buildings is random, you have to stay flexible.

    Piety is very powerful for CV, and I've played games from the same decision point; one where I go Piety and one where I go Aesthetics. The Piety games end more quickly most of the time, even if I don't always make it back around to finishing Piety.

    Regarding London in my game:
    Spoiler London isn't calling... :

    London has only built Pyramids (useful) and Great Lighthouse (useless on this map). Incas have them down to one city, but London hasn't taken any damage. I'm about to launch the surprise attack on Pacal, but have to leave a few units near London to try to steal it out from under the Incas, who I assume will have them on the ropes soon. If not, I'll march my pretty experienced army back West and take London myself.

    I didn't mention it earlier, but after opening Tradition, I also opened Honor to stack up the Culture from barb kills. It looks like that'll pay off this game, as I'm not generating a ton of early culture so farming barbs is carrying me. I think this is a good idea when playing as the Aztecs some of the time. Other times, the added cost for important policies makes me regret the decision. Either way, it's more fun this way.
     
  10. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

    Joined:
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    Location:
    San Diego (for now)
    EDGE#124 - t145 Update
    Spoiler The Mayans end came before 2012.... :

    I DoW'd Pacal right as our DoF expired. I didn't have much gold to upgrade more than a few units, so was planning on just picking off his meager units and pillaging tiles and trade routes for gold to upgrade the rest. About 5 turns in, Kammy backstabs me and DoW's, so I gave Pacal a temporary peace for a few GPT. It took me about 5 turns of culture-bonus killing of his units before he backed off and o then I gave him peace and went back after Pacal. My Scarcher is now double-shooting, with one other Xbow close to that level. Palenque falls on t143, aided by Kammy dogpiling on Pacal and trying to steal my booty, but it's my city now (University intact, thankfully).

    Happiness was solved with a Mercantile CS across the map, thanks to my spy, but I can't move the spy to get more CS influence because that happiness is really needed and all CS are competitive. I'm not doing well on this front, and need to really step it up to maintain control of the Congress. GPT is still an issue.

    We were talking about Reformation earlier in this thread, and this game is a good example of the randomness of Religion. All 4 religions took a Reformation before I could, but none took Sacred Sites, which means I can grab that after taking some Rationalism policies. I've got Mosks and Cathedrals in my 2 Western expos, and 1 Prophet (coming soon) will convert all of my cities so they can all buy expensive Pagodas. Sacred Sites will be effective this game (nobody is running away in Culture), so I'll delay Aesthetics to get Reformed.

    Reformation t134.png

    I was first to Printing Press and proposed World's Fair, so that important hurdle has been met. I should have no problem winning WF, as I'm #2 in hammers and gaining fast.
    Demos t145.png

    Even with a couple of skirmishes occurring, I was able to hard build Alhambra, used the Artemis-aided GE on Pisa, hard built Globe, and GE'd Sistine. Very successful Renaissance Wondermongering, if I do say so myself. The Cap should be just fine, but I'm going to be short on GE's for the Radio Wonders, especially considering that I'm going to have to burn a lot of Faith to get my Pagodas up. Not having the trade routes from the sailing branch of the tech tree is a bit of a downer, but the Cap and expos should all be just fine:
    Cap t145.png Empire t145.png

    I'm starting to think that the diversion to open Honor was a mistake. I've got no existing barb camps to harvest culture with, and I'd love to have my 2nd policy in Rationalism by now. I may make it to Radio in time to propose IG at the next Congress, but I suspect I'll be better off waiting until the 3rd go-round, considering my current lack of tourism. I've got ~17 turns to decide, and it'll be a close race.
    SPt145.png Tech t145.png

    I had thought I was going to take London next, but the world isn't very happy with me and England has only 2 Wonders and zero theming. I'll hold off and maybe take her out later if she has any goodies by then. For now, it's Sim City and trying to get the world to forgive me for my earlier transgressions.
    Tourism t145.png

    Happiness will be ok even if I can't start trading again soon. GPT is still an issue. Culture is getting up to speed. Science is pretty good. Production is good and getting better.

    This will probably be a Freedom game, and I can withstand any assault for now. If America or Polynesia DoW me, I'll take some cities in the counter-attack, and I'm pretty sure this is coming. I've been denounced twice already. I'll still build Porcelain for the free Scientist, even though I doubt I'll have any RA's any time soon.

    Right now, this is looking like a t240 CV, but my science may kick in to make that quicker. I'm shooting for sub-230.


     
  11. Nizef

    Nizef King

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    I have come to appriciate Alhambra more and more, but on Deity my tech order more or less prevents me from getting it. What is your turn target for Chivalry, in order to hard build Alhambra?
     
  12. vadalaz

    vadalaz Emperor

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    I don't think I've ever gotten Alhambra on a Deity/Std/Std map. I checked 15 Deity games' logs in the HoF and the turns on which Alhambra went were: 93, 96, 98, 100, 103, 103, 103, 107, 107, 111, 112, 112, 115, 116, 133; mean = 107. I suppose you have a decent chance to build it if you beeline Chivalry, keep track of who else has the tech and make sure they're all at war.

    ***

    I partially played through two games of the series, but I don't think I'm going to finish either of them:

    #65 Portugal
    Spoiler :
    I knew the map had Shaka but El Dorado was a pleasant surprise to me. However, it's still not enough to compensate for the main problem on this map which is lack of production.

    Went Liberty, got Pyramids and went for early CBs, took Paris with help from Shaka and then DoWed him as well, but couldn't kill him before he got Impis. I figured I'd try to befriend the guy instead. Bribed Hiawatha to declare war on Shaka, then I declared war on the Iroquois and took two cities from them. Shaka loved this, so we became best friends forever.

    Shaka razed a French city at some point, which left some improved tiles in no man's lands. I had a lot of workers and military units standing around doing nothing, so it seemed like a good idea to just pillage-repair those tiles over and over. I actually learned the keyboard shortcuts for pillaging and repairing tiles so that it'd take me only a few seconds to do it every turn.

    20210117143641_1.jpg 20210117143735_1.jpg

    I don't really have a Portugal-specific strategy, so my idea for the game was to just spam a ton of Naus at some point and see what happens. On lower difficulties you can use the Naus to demand tribute from CSs, but it doesn't work on Deity. I saw that the 36-pop Persepolis was really vulnerable to naval attacks (3 tiles for melee ships to attack from!) so eventually I decided to build a few Frigates and send them to Persepolis along with all my (now useless) Naus.

    The city fell very quickly and this is where I quit the game. I only attacked Persia because I saw they had Notre Dame, Chichen Itza and Taj Mahal, so I figured taking Persepolis would be a happiness-positive action, but apparently Darius built all the happiness wonders in his expos. The game's winnable, but I didn't really want to manage happiness anymore. Culture generation had been a big problem for the entire game as well.

    20210117144017_1.jpg
    #31 Ethiopia
    Spoiler :
    Picked this map because I wanted to play a OCC culture game for a change. The starting location is fantastic and I had a very strong early game:

    20210112113716_1.jpg

    I thought I played Renaissance quite well too. I oxforded Acoustics for a quick Sistine, meanwhile teching towards Printing Press and stealing Astronomy from Sejong. I got all the wonders I wanted - Sistine, LToP, Globe (GE from Pisa), Taj Mahal, Uffizi and PT just in time before a wave of four RAs. Those were strong enough to get me both Radio and Industrialization. I quit shortly after that due to several disappointments:

    - getting a bunch Archaeologists with just one city is annoying as you also need to secure Louvre and Radio wonders. I should've prebuilt some Scouts and parked them on nearby Antiquity Sites. With one city you are very unlikely to win IG as well. CV really is a production victory
    - no immediate Coal or Aluminum
    - OCC tech pace is fine before Industrial, but after that you really start to feel the limitations of having just one city
    - low faith. There was only one (hostile) religious CS on the map after Enrico had annexed Wittenberg. My religion was Sun God - 15% food - 15% production - Messiah, but with OCC I think you really want +2 faith per wonder. To secure that you need a fast religion with a faith pantheon - Earth Mother was available here, so going with Sun God was a mistake.
     
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  13. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

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    As you and Vadalaz said, Alhambra isn't normally a Wonder the AI lets us get. When I noticed I was tied for 1st to Chivalry, I just decided to go full production mode and build it. My Culture was so bad at this point, it was worth the gamble, and if I missed, the Gold would really help me upgrade my units. I've gotten Alhambra in 2 of my recent games without targeting it, and I don't have a turn target. I usually never get this, so it was just a nice surprise, but it's a very powerful Wonder.
     
  14. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

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    I'll have to go back and check to see what turn I got it on this game. I got Education early (t102 if I recall correctly) and then beelined Printing Press. The world was mostly at war, and several AI's went Gunpowder, while the 2 that went the Banking route were both losing their wars, so it pretty much just fell into my lap.

    That screen shot with all of the Impis who must have crossed through your lands is interesting. Did you give him Open Borders? That's something I almost never do. I love making someone like Shaka have to sail many turns to get where I've paid him to be, plus you could have nuked half his army with a couple of Galleas if you were so inclined.

    Important observation made here; Tourism is a brute force mechanism that requires multiple cities. This applies to Turtle's recent question about late game conquest in CV games. More cities = more Tourism and it matters even late in the game.

    I'm curious why you didn't take a few CS?
     
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  15. vadalaz

    vadalaz Emperor

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    Never thought of that, sounds like a really fun thing to do. In this case I actually wanted Shaka to be useful in the war with the Iroquois, as Hiawatha had a lot of units.

    Just trying to stay true to the in-game OCC rules where you can't have any expos at all and any cities you capture get insta-razed. My AI friends would've hated me for it too.
     
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  16. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

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    You can have a lot of fun with this little "exploit". If you've got a big mountain range, you can send a massive army leagues out of its way and pretty much render it useless or destroy it, depending on your mood. Not all AI take this bait, and some will just sit back and then make peace in 10 turns, but when it works, it can be a game changer. The real warmongers almost always fall for it.

    Thanks for the context. I suppose that really makes a CV in OCC even more of a pure science game.

    I haven't played OCC in ages. I think the last one was one of the Diety Challenge Series games, and the fact that I remember a game from 5+ years ago, means it must have been fun. I'm definitely NOT asking for more OCC in this series, as I really like seeing how different players' city placement choices impact the game.
     
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  17. Nizef

    Nizef King

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    Does anybody have a nice Persia game to share in this series? And if not, is there any chance of a kind soul taking on the creation of such a game?
     
  18. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

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    EDGE#124 - T171 UPDATE
    Spoiler Everyone hates me..... :

    At my last update, I was content to just sit back with my original 4 cities plus recently conquered Palenque and just Sim City my way to a CV, in a game where nobody is paying attention to Culture. This was not to be the case.

    Nobody would trade with me, and denouncements were coming from everywhere. All I did was put the Mayans out of their misery. Open Borders, which really helps with Archeologists, just wasn't going to happen.

    Here, at t171, I've just reached Radio and was going to go Order (Factory Science would get me back on track). I notice America marching a bunch of Minutemen towards my Cap, so I grabbed Freedom instead so I could quickly get Foreign Legions. This ended up being a very smart move as America DoW'd me on the next turn and 1 turn later Polynesia and Spain joined in on the dogpile. I'll rack up a bunch of free culture from all of the kills, and I'm not really worried about losing any cities, but this game just got a bit more difficult:
    Ideology t171.png

    Because I don't normally play Lakes maps, I didn't have a very good exploration strategy and just recently met the first Cultural CS, which I quickly bought influence with. I've got a bunch of Mercantile CS allies, so happiness isn't an issue. Having to buy 600 Faith Pagodas is going to prevent me from buying a GE for the Radio Wonders, and I don't think I'll have time to hard build them. Maybe Sacred Sites will carry me.....

     
  19. Nizef

    Nizef King

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    Seems to me that the first critical moment of the game was Polynesia getting Tikal, leaving the hapless Pacal with only the cap. On larger maps, I have sometimes settled a crappy city in the middle of nowhere and then gifted it to my next target. Thus avoiding the penalty for finishing off an AI.
     
  20. Shark Diver

    Shark Diver King

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    That's not a bad idea, and I'm not above using such "exploits". Of course, then I'd have missed out on all of the fun of watching early Foreign Legions exploding Minutemen in a ball of Culture.
     
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