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[SCENARIO] Escape From Zombie Island Elite - January 31, 2017

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Completed Scenarios' started by Vuldacon, Jan 31, 2017.

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After Playing - Your Opinion about the Updated EFZI2 Elite Game - December 6, 2021

This poll will close on Jun 10, 2022 at 1:59 PM.
  1. I think the Game Play needs to be more challenging

  2. I think the Game Play is too challenging

  3. I think the Game Play is challenging enough and Fun to Play

  4. I think the Game Play needs more Special/Scary Zombies

  5. I think the Game Play needs more Zombies from the Start of the Game

  6. I think the Game Play is about right because each time I play is different enough to enjoy

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. tjs282

    tjs282 Stone \ Cold / Fish

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    Replies to first post
    I was helping all of the Human Factions initially, supplying them with techs and resources, and also clearing away Dead Bodies, and building Forts on their Streets (when doing so didn't put my own workers at risk).

    They all declared on me nonetheless, the Company relatively early on -- though we're presently friends again (at my sufferance), so I really need to be careful to ensure that they don't accidentally walk onto one of my Landmines.

    I have not started any wars myself, not even against the Zombies -- but since Conquest is the only Victory available to the Farmers, I will eventually have to take all the Buildings anyway.
    This is basically what I've been doing with most of my autoproduced/obsolete units.

    And have been very gratified over the last couple of turns, at the sight of Morticians trying to Unearth on the Manhole near the Detective Agency, which has long since been Barricaded and garrisoned with a Detective. Though was also initially puzzled as to why they persisted here -- until I realised that Detectives are Invisible!

    So now I'm dropping (or moving) Landmines to those "popular" tiles instead...

    I never got any Chainsaw Maniacs, though. Unfortunately, before they got round to building the Club, the Survivors appear to have lost the Hardware Store to the Zombies (who then lost it to me).
    Yup, doing that, too, now that all the Squid seem to be dead (or hiding in coastal Buildings to heal); I haven't seen any in the wild for some turns.

    (I don't have many attack-boats yet though, and I just lost my first (and so far only) Voyager, while attacking the Armory, due to carelessness: I used up all its MP with bombardments, instead of saving enough to retreat it out of range of the Zombies' return fire).

    But I'm also stacking up Oil Barrels and Chemicals nearby (under a small stack of Champions and Bulls), waiting to be used once I see those SAZs going into the yellow. While also stockpiling Mean Machines, should really kick off my Morale Boost soonish...

    Having played a bit more, and now adding replies to your next post...
    They are down to 13 at present (and soon to be 12: the top-defender SAZ at the Weapons Range is now showing yellow).

    I have the Docks, so the first Dark Sky is gone. The rest are all guarded by serious SAZ-stacks, so I will need More Power for those.
    As I say, I did try to help the Human Factions where possible, and only fought when declared upon.

    It's hard to be tolerant though, when the Survivors sign an RoP and then immediately re-declare... :eek: :mad: ;)
    It's now Turn 104 and I have 2 Cruisers and one new Voyager. So yeah, my play has obviously not been optimal! ;)
    Unfortunately I lost the Tractor to air(?) bombardment of Zeb's Farm, when the Authorities attacked me.

    But I do still have Bubba (he's mostly been guarding the Bank, or the Engineers clearing and Fortressing the nearby Streets).
     
  2. Vuldacon

    Vuldacon Dedicated to Excellence Supporter

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    tjs282... From reading your Post I believe the other AI Human Factions are at War with you because you did not go to war against the Zombies. Not sure what else took place but obviously the AI was not happy with you :lol:

    I have never had any of the AI Human Factions declare War against me. Again, Game Play creates different responses from the AI.

    Trying to seriously Hurt a Zombie Building that has extreme numbers of Sated Alpha Zombies using one Voyager is suicide and of no real help because it will require far too long to do damage with just one Voyager.
    Those NW Buildings have Many Sated Alpha Zombies and it is much better to wait and attack them with 3 or more Voyagers and Cruisers. Focus on other Zombie Buildings that you can Capture, especially the Important Buildings that offer you more like the North Shore Industries and Sanitation Department.

    You will probably still be able to do well as the Game continues but there are different ways to play that can help you more :)
    I assume you have read the Game Tips I placed in the Civilopedia, Game Concepts.

    It is interesting to see different Strategies and personal Play... I am sure you will discover new things regarding how you like to play.

    Good Luck in the end Game.

    Edit... In my Test Game, Turn 104, I had 7 Cruisers and 4 Voyagers. The Zombies had 11 Buildings Remaining. Go for the Coast Guard and Paradise Resort early and I recommend going for those Buildings Before the North Shore Industries... Very Important.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2022
  3. tjs282

    tjs282 Stone \ Cold / Fish

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    You could well be right!

    But I have to say, given the Farmers' very spread out and split starting position(s), and the large number of Zombie (and other Human) units already roaming free on the map at midnight on Day 1, I did not feel that I could safely declare on anyone that early! I also wanted the AI-Factions to spend some time wearing each other down before I waded into any fray(s) myself.

    FTR:
    According to my savefiles, by 8am on Day 2 (Turn 16), I already held the Dog Pound, and had been (back) at peace with the Company for 2 turns. In my experience, the Civ3-AI will rarely if ever open negotiations during the first 4-5 turns of a war (especially one which they started!), which suggests that Van Allen must have DoW'd me at around Turn 9-10, at the latest.

    Maybe I should have just paid his tribute-demand (which must have been for gold, since I wouldn't have had any new tech at that point), but I wanted the Dog Pound anyway, to join up the Farm and the Inn.
    I got those Buildings a loooong time ago (sometime between 6am and 8pm on Day 4, per my saves).

    According to your very helpful SAZ-List, the only Buildings that the Zombies still hold at this point (12am, Day 10 = Turn 108), are mostly those with 100+ SAZs. The exceptions being the Weapons Range, which is no longer in their possession (it yielded another 3 Champions in that last turn before it fell :sniper: ); and the Car Park, Airport and Jungle Island, which while "understaffed", are also hidden behind the Mortuary (295 SAZs !?! I'm leaving this until last!!!), Conference Center (50 SAZs) and Factory (60 SAZs), so not easily accessible to my units (not to mention, a long way from reinforcements!).
    I did try!

    At 8pm on Day 2 (Turn 22), these two Buildings were still held by the Authorities and Zombies, respectively. Having bypassed the Coastguard (since I was at war with the Zombies, but not yet with the Authorities -- nor did I wish to be!), Elite Zeb* plus 4 Elite Champions (and a Dog) were near the Resort, and had already been sniping the SAZs for several turns.

    But by 12am on Day 3 (Turn 24), the Survivors had managed to sneak in and take this Building out from under Zeb's nose -- so the Farmers did not get it until much later (10pm on Day 7; Turn 83), after Hannibal declared on us (for the first time!).

    I had already taken control of the Coastguard a little before then, sometime between 2am and 4pm on Day 6 (Turns 61-68); after the Authorities declared, it was the first of their Buildings that I attacked.

    *(On Day 10, despite having taken part in every siege, Zeb still hasn't spawned a Champion!)
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2022
  4. Vuldacon

    Vuldacon Dedicated to Excellence Supporter

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    The Coast Guard Falls to the Zombies Turn 0 then You can Capture it next Turn 1. IF the Authorities manage to capture the Coast Guard after the Zombies Captured it on turn 0... it is unusual. It can happen but that is rare... if that happens just start over. No need to fight the Authorities unless you want to play that.

    I do go to War with the Company during the beginning turns playing as any other Faction to capture the TARDIS. I capture the Dog Pound then after several turns, I make peace with them and get supplies... I give them some Road Kill as the Survivors to make them happy with me. Then I do not fight any Human Faction the remainder of the game and I allow the Zombies to capture the other Human Buildings (when I am ready to allow it) before I capture them... that is just the way I like to play.

    One Way for the Farmers is On Turn 0, Use Old Buzzard to Drop off a Champion on the house by the Coast Guard and another Champion on the House by the Sewer Guard that is on the way to the Coast Guard by the street. Load Zeb, two Champions and Fleabag in Old Betsy and move by the Policeman, ready to move next turn 1. You need to prevent Vuldacon and the Infected Dogs from grabbing the Coast Guard as well... timing is important!

    It is Good to get Sam Hammer and you will be at War with the Zombies early by capturing him as well. You need to Multitask your Moves and especially the the first 14+ turns. Make every move count.
    The First Turns need your creative methods to gain what you want and hang on to it and remember that Old Buzzard is a Fast transport that seriously helps the Farmers.

    The Next Building to capture from the Zombies is Tokugawa's Home as soon as possible before the Survivors can recapture it...Then go for the Hospital, Graveyard and Paradise Resort. You can find ways to gain the Hospital at the same time and you keep in mind that you will also be capturing the TARDIS and Dog Pound then be at War with the Company. Have to use advanced thinking and prepare. You need to build Elmo's Farm Trucks and the Bull Barn early.

    Because the Zombies are at War with All other Factions, after several turns they will gladly accept Peace and also give you many supplies.

    Always use your Special Units playing as Any Faction, like Lawman Jed. Don't be timid about fighting the Zombies the first of the Game because they do not have many strong units yet. You can manage until you make peace with them if that is what you want to do temporarily.

    Yes, many things happen differently in all Civ Game Scenarios and that allows replay ability. Again, regardless of your preferred methods or strategies, that is what makes it Fun to play it Your Way.

    Farmers First Two Turns, Turn 0 and Turn 1 Examples:




     
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  5. Takhisis

    Takhisis Rum and coke.

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    Use cars loaded with workers for that.

    How did you lose so many trucks in the early game?
     
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  6. tjs282

    tjs282 Stone \ Cold / Fish

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    Yes, it occurred to me later that since Elmo's Farm Trucks was the first(?) Key Location that I built, I should currently have (a lot?) more Farm Trucks than I do.

    So I would guess that they were also victims of the Authorities' bombardment: the Radar Artillery at the Military Base has (had!) very high B/R/F-values, and the Farm was bombed for a couple of turns while my units were en route and besieging it: enough to destroy the Tractor (a King-flagged D=40 unit), so pretty much every high-D non-King unit above it must have got wasted first.
     
  7. Takhisis

    Takhisis Rum and coke.

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    Hmmmmm, now I actually need to know more what was going on because the Radar Artillery at the base is supposed to be stationary and limited to defensive range, at least in the version of EFZI Elite that I have.

    (must play civ, for research purposes only)
     
  8. Vuldacon

    Vuldacon Dedicated to Excellence Supporter

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    Takhisis... The Radar Artillery is Immobile. tjs282 must have been referring to other Units Bombarding :dunno:
     
  9. Takhisis

    Takhisis Rum and coke.

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    I suppose? I'm not sure what other units can be doing such bombardment that early, but maybe tjs282 has selected the option to not display enemy moves or combat and was actually rammed in fights to the death by the Authorities' various mobile units.
     
  10. Vuldacon

    Vuldacon Dedicated to Excellence Supporter

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    Well there is a Marine in the Military Base but he would not be able to destroy what TJS282 was saying.
     
  11. tjs282

    tjs282 Stone \ Cold / Fish

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    Well, even if it wasn't actually the Radar Artillery unit, something was certainly bombing Zeb's Farm in extremis, and I was at war with the Authorities at the time.

    I should maybe also mention here that I was/am playing with @Flintlock's .exe patch, which (among other things) fixes the Civ3 AI's general disinclinations both to build bombard-capable land-units, and to use them effectively/offensively -- to the point that I am becoming convinced that I may need to level (back) down to Emperor for my epic games...
    Spoiler Last night's latest DG-attempt (Standard 70% Continents, Raging Barbs, all Civs Random: I got the Aztecs) ended in abject failure... :
    when, having been forced to 50-turn Republic before/during 20 turns spent first repelling and then mostly conquering the Greeks (Hoplites guarding Cats are no fun to take down with Swords + Cats), and literally the turn I was intending to revolt (having put it off while I was fighting Alex), Liz used our RoP to backstab me, stealing a couple of my Greek conquests with a Knight and a passing MDI (breaking the RoP, but the damage was done), and then rocking up to my most recently planted native town (just SW of Sparta) with 6-ish Cats/Trebs under about the same number of Pikes/Spears (initially; by the end, the number of Cats had tripled, at least partly as a result of stealing mine).

    She then proceeded to bomb it mercilessly, with follow-up Knight + LBM attacks over multiple turns, losing some units, but killing more, including my second Sword-Army (the first having already died to a redlined Hop up north), until Teayo finally fell. I managed to make peace after only that loss, but a heroic JagWarrior (defending against a Knight, ferchrissakes) had also forced me into a Despotic GA, which I totally failed to benefit from significantly (beyond, y'know, basic survival!).

    I'm now so far behind that the game is probably toast. Nearly everyone -- including Liz -- is some way into the Industrial, while I'm still 4-turning the remaining 5 (6?) obligatory Medieval techs, and the Ottoman Sipahi are rampaging across the other continent -- which is also the only landmass with Saltpeter deposits.
     
  12. Vuldacon

    Vuldacon Dedicated to Excellence Supporter

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    tjs282... If you change the Game from how I made it, my comments are useless and yes, using Flintlocks .exe patch changes the game.

    Flintlock has made some Great additions that are Very Useful, however, I have spent many years adjusting the Game that uses Only the Original Editor.
     
  13. tjs282

    tjs282 Stone \ Cold / Fish

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    I only have the "AI-bugfix" parts of the patch switched on. Yes, that changes the game, but only in the sense that it makes any given difficulty a little more... erm... difficult! Your hints and tricks are therefore all generally still valid.

    Don't get me wrong, I am not complaining about my experience: as you say, the scenario is essentially programmed by the player's choices, and my gameplay does tend to be slow and methodical (and possibly usually always over-cautious!). The main thing that I need is (much) more familiarity with the map/scenario. As the designer, you know where everything is, and how to use all the starting units of each Faction to best advantage; I just haven't got to that point yet (but I will, at some point!).
     
  14. Vuldacon

    Vuldacon Dedicated to Excellence Supporter

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    tjs282... Yes, knowing the Scenario and what to expect as well as the better ways to accomplish strategies is the way. That requires playing with at least a good starting understanding then learning more as the game is played. This is true for most games.

    If you change any one thing it can drastically change the game. An example is if the Zombies used Lethal Bombardment/Shooting on the Map, they would win before the Humans could get their Stronger Units. I have thought about making that change but the entire Game would have to be remade to accommodate that change.
    Also, if you change the game, you will be learning strategies to deal with the game as you have changed it, Not as I made it... There are many other subtle changes that occur with any one direct change that will not be immediately understood.

    If you want to understand the Game, play it as I made it without adjustments. This Game has required years of work, additions and adjustments :)
     
  15. Takhisis

    Takhisis Rum and coke.

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    ^EFZI is definitely meant to be played with the odd quirks that make the AI behave and deploy its Zombies in specific ways.
     
  16. Hunterkiller

    Hunterkiller Chieftain

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    Great Scenario! I played it as Company & Survivors on hardest Difficulty and won.

    But I changed two Things.

    The Hand-Built-Tank looks cheesy, I replaced it with the Panhard VBL of Wyrmshadow. :cool:

    And I made a Connection between the Lake and the Ocean near the Nuclear Power Plant. Now the Navy can attack Paradise Mortuary.

    Spoiler :

    The Scenario is really good, but in my Opinion the Zombies start slow and with weak units. More Roaming Alpha Zombies and less Zombie Grunts at the Start would be more Intimidating. :)

    Dominant Omega, Skreech and some Spiders are the only Units who attack the Hero Units?
     

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    Last edited: Mar 22, 2022
  17. Vuldacon

    Vuldacon Dedicated to Excellence Supporter

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    Hunterkiller... Thank You and Glad you like the Scenario.

    The changes you made for your personal preference are of course your prerogative. If you want the Game more difficult, connecting the Lake from the Nuclear Power Plant to the Coast to allow easy access for the Navy to attack Paradise Mortuary is contrary to what you want and really not needed because Cruisers can Bombard a13 Tile distance that already allows Bombarding Paradise Mortuary. The Survivors also have Assault Balloons that can Bomb a 13 tile distance.

    There has always been a "toss up" between having more stronger Zombies from the start as well as later. The Scenario is meant to be an Escalating situation and because I want players, New and Veteran, to have time to establish a Good position to carry out plans against the developing and escalating Zombie situation, the initial 14 turns before Guns, Guns, Guns is reached are easier. The Human players basically start with their few added and special Units and can only build weak units.

    More Roaming Alpha Zombies from the start could be added as well as more Zombie Nurses. The "Hero Units" are indeed Strong and if players "Leader Farm" they will gain Many Champions. It is all meant to provide methods players can use to combat the escalating Zombie Apocalypse. Playing as the Zombies, I beat all of the AI Human Factions and Win the Game turn 32. This is because the AI is Not programed to use Lethal Shooting on the Map but Players can.

    If only Veteran Players are considered, I agree that the Game should have more of the Stronger Zombies from the Start as well as more Zombies that can Kill the Champions and the Special Human Units. If a Special Human Unit or Champion is injured, the Stronger Zombie Units such as Skreech, Moglins, Xenomorphs and certainly Dominate Omegas will Attack and Kill them.

    The Moglins and Xenomorphs were added for the Zombies to help them against the Human Units and add more challenge.

    What ever a Player plans, Lethal Shooting and Lethal Bombardment is needed to Win the Game. No Matter the Strength a Zombie Unit has, Lethal Shooting and Bombardment will kill them.

    I hope more Members will vote on the Poll I set up
    ... I am certainly interested in feedback about the Game and do have ideas to address Game Play Factors that will provide Fun and Challenge for all :)
     
  18. Takhisis

    Takhisis Rum and coke.

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    …but the whole point is for you not to spam it with Voyagers, but instead to blow 'em up with land-based attacks.
     
  19. Vuldacon

    Vuldacon Dedicated to Excellence Supporter

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    The Military and Naval presence on Paradise Island are intended as a small part of the Military and Navy and certainly Not as powerful as the Large Force on the Mainland.

    Paradise Island was Mainly a Tourist get away/Vacation spot and Best Place to Live before the Zombie Outbreak. Everyone was taken by surprise and especially how fast the Zombie Virus spread and Mutated, infecting most living things.

    As for "Hand Built Tanks", they are simply a Unit to help Defend Buildings and Block Zombies. They represent what people will build with limited resources in an extreme crisis...same as using Furniture, Hay Bales, Sand Bags and Barbed Wire to block Zombies :)

    I have no doubt that people who know how to Modify the Game do so to please themselves and that is their personal decision. It is not possible to please everyone because we all have different preferences and understanding.

    If I only try to please Veteran Players, I Ruin Game Play for New Players and Vise Versa. Therefore I tried for what I call a Happy Medium. I certainly want the Game to be challenging but above all I want it to be a Fun, Brief Reprieve from Reality.
     
  20. Blue Monkey

    Blue Monkey Archon Without Portfolio

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    Vuldacon:

    As some one who has always played very casually, "for pleasure of the game rather than score" so to speak, I'm glad there's an easy level to one of my favorite scenarios. I'll admit to having made a custom version of Rambuchan's Mughal Empire scenario so that I could play the Malacca Pirates when i'm in the mood. I'm no where near experienced enough though with gameplay balance to put a tenth of the effort you have into all the versions of EFZI over the years.
     

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