[NFP] Ethiopia Update Discussion Thread

[fy00sh]

The yield icons display a star when they exceed a certain amount... I think anything over 10. So that castle looks like it’s producing 11+ food.

The star actually appears for yields of +12 and above, so the castle is producing at least 12 food, possibly more

 

[Thenewwwguy]

The star actually appears for yields of +12 and above, so the castle is producing at least 12 food, possibly more

that’s a lot of blood

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

The Diplomatic Quarter tooltip says, among other things, that enemy spies operate at 2 levels below normal when targeting this district.
That must mean at least one new type of spy operations will be introduced?

I hope it is a mission that will worsen relations between the civ and another who has an trade delegation/embassy.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I hope it is a mission that will worsen relations between the civ and another who has an trade delegation/embassy.

destroys all embassies?

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

Because in practice, it will probably more worth it to absorb a City-State and its yields than deviate from the standard build most players need to go for to keep up with the AI on higher difficulties.

I fail to see how not finding time to build a new district contradicts with building a military. Where do you think I'm worried about pulling production from to fit in a new district? Building districts you normally would in the current patch, and building a military to go invade your neighbors, which is the common move you should go for in the early game.

I mean, you keep talking about "not doing the same old things every game", but there is a concrete meta in Civ VI, whether you like it or not. And you get punished for wildly going off course from that meta. There is an opportunity cost associated with every decision you make in the game, and now the opportunity cost of playing the envoy game is way, way higher. That is inarguable. Does that skew the City-State diplo balance so far off that it might be strictly more worthwhile to use your military to absorb them? I don't know. Maybe. I'm speculating. One of the points of a discussion thread.

I'm noting that moving a preexisting mechanic behind a district with dubious benefits to your early game build makes the opportunity cost of engaging with that mechanic much higher, which might have a detrimental effect on the gameplay of Civ. This is all first impression stuff. I'm not sure why this is getting such a visceral reaction out of you.

Once again, if you need a "meta" just to beat poorly made bots/AIs, you have larger problems than this one district. And to be honest, adding superfluous words like "WILDLY going off course" or a "MASSIVE opportunity cost" to describe a one time discounted district does not make your argument any stronger. If you really think building ONE extra district can ruin your entire "meta", so much so that you cannot even beat the AIs that have been the butt of the jokes since the release of the game, the same AIs that are so bad there is literally at least one thread mocking/complaining about it once every two weeks, I recommend you turn the difficulty down a few notches until you get better. And I don't think you play multiplayer either, anyone who ever plays against experienced players will love this change, since it minimizes the role of RNG, thus emphasizes the decisions of the players.

And by the way, if some light sarcasm is considered "VISCERAL personal attacks" to you, welcome to the Internet.

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

destroys all embassies?

I thought more like "murder ambassador" or something like that which creates say -10 modifier to relations between the civs. Of course you can only target 1 civs delegation/embassy present. But pure speculation and wish of course.

 

[Shibooyeah]

Very happy the new district is for diplomacy, not so happy that the new CIV with this update is not diplomacy focused though?

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Very happy the new district is for diplomacy, not so happy that the new CIV with this update is not diplomacy focused though?

i mean, it’s ethiopia. Faith, defensive militarism and trade were always going to be its focuses

 

[Shibooyeah]

i mean, it’s ethiopia. Faith, defensive militarism and trade were always going to be its focuses

I mean sure, just wish they would have done another CIV for this update then to make it thematically consistent.

Or, we’ll, the African Union is based in Ethiopia so I don’t see how diplomacy focus is that much of a stretch.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Thinking of the tech/civics tree and the fact it has only two buildings, I'd guess that the district comes a bit later.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Thinking of the tech/civics tree and the fact it has only two buildings, I'd guess that the district comes a bit later.

I don't want to assume it will come at Diplomatic Service, but it makes sense.

 

[oakdragon]

I like the look of the update, but I’ll have to see how it plays out. I have no problem with the fantasy elements, since they’ll be optional and I’m sure I’ll play games with and without.

I am, however, surprised by the large number of people who are ok with lovecraftian elements but think vampires went “too far”. At least vampires are based on real-world myths. The Elder Gods are completely made up. Would adding the Council of Elrond be ok, too? It amounts to the same thing.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I like the look of the update, but I’ll have to see how it plays out. I have no problem with the fantasy elements, since they’ll be optional and I’m sure I’ll play games with and without.

I am, however, surprised by the large number of people who are ok with lovecraftian elements but think vampires went “too far”. At least vampires are based on real-world myths. The Elder Gods are completely made up. Would adding the Council of Elrond be ok, too? It amounts to the same thing.

They're all made up. The Elder Gods were just made up by 1 guy fairly recently.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I am, however, surprised by the large number of people who are ok with lovecraftian elements but think vampires went “too far”. At least vampires are based on real-world myths. The Elder Gods are completely made up.

That's exactly how I feel. I'm just going to pretend that I just recruited Vlad the Impaler whenever I have a vampire unit.

Though I justify the voidsingers to be based off of any type of historical religious cult, even if in game it is obviously fantasy based.

 

[CivLuvah]

they tweeted out that this would be a fantasy game mode like two weeks ago

Really? I don't know. I carried that historical realism assumption on the SS from when they announced that there was going to be one (prior to whenever that tweet was posted) until when I watched the video.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

The persona pack isn’t about alt leaders. It’s almost certainly a marketing test of the concept of doing variations on the same leader for civ7. This can then be monetized.

I highly doubt this. There are not many leaders who could sustain a business model like that. Yeah everyone wants to buy a game with two versions of President Grant leading America.

I've gone into detail many times about how presumptive it is to think that VII is right around the corner, after VI split the playerbase again and itself hasn't gone that much farther mechanically than V. Between how difficult it is to make a cohesive, streamlined base game experience that is substantially different from VI, plus how unprofitable it is to start fresh with the same civ list, splitting the playerbase again as the devs have to wait two or three years for expansion content to encourage player buy in...it's ridiculous. The devs have every incentive to keep VI alive as long as possible.

But more to the point, I don't think VII market testing is necessary to explain Teddy and Catherine. We have rough rider because the US is a huge market but America really doesn't need a second leader (especially if we are still operating under a loose rule that alternate leader represent completely different polities (Angevin Empire, Mauryan Empire, Delian/Pelopponnesian League) then America never really existed under a different polity outside of the short-lived Articles of Confederation which was really just a proto-Constitution). Rough Rider exists to give us more America; as a test run for variations on American presidents, it kind of leads to a dead end.

Magnificence Catherine seems to be a repurposed Italian alternate leader. I always thought she was included to be a sleeper Eleanor for France and Italy; otherwise, it was very odd to pick an Italian leader for France if something Italian was quite likely in the works given VI's theme song. Now I would guess the devs still want to shoehorn in Italy!Catherine's proposed playstyle and try to justify her inclusion from the beginning to the fans. "See? Catherine is fun! We are having fun!" Again, given that Magnificence Catherine seems to blatantly touch on Reniassance Italian design, the one area in Europe where players want a civ but no one seems to know how/whether it should be implemented, she seems to be occupying an exceptional space and doesn't point toward any other leaders necessitating that treatment.

It could still happen to affect VII further down, but I think the choices speak for themselves within VI's overall development.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Really? I don't know. I carried that historical realism assumption on the SS from when they announced that there was going to be one (prior to whenever that tweet was posted) until when I watched the video.

I don't know about the tweet but they did say in the Apocalypse livestream that this would have fantasy elements in it.

 

[Jewelrunna]

Once again, if you need a "meta" just to beat poorly made bots/AIs, you have larger problems than this one district. And to be honest, adding superfluous words like "WILDLY going off course" or a "MASSIVE opportunity cost" to describe a one time discounted district does not make your argument any stronger. If you really think building ONE extra district can ruin your entire "meta", so much so that you cannot even beat the AIs that have been the butt of the jokes since the release of the game, I recommend you turn the difficulty down a few notches until you get better.

And by the way, if some light sarcasm is considered "VISCERAL personal attacks" to you, welcome to the Internet.

Do you know what a metagame is? How you beat AIs that get massive yield boosts and buffed starts is by doing those things I mentioned. Prioritize those districts I laid out for you and build an early military.

If you played on higher difficulties (or even really watched multiplayer or deity level gameplay) you’d literally see that philosophy put into effect. Every single game has a metagame, the optimal way to play the game. To deny that is silly.

Gatewalling half of the bonuses from City-States behind this district (that may come as late as the Renaissance Era—we really just don’t know yet) is emphatically a huge nerf to City-State diplomacy. In a standard game, you’re still probably going to prioritize Campus/Theater/Trade District and building an army over building the Diplomatic Quarter, especially if it comes early. As a consequence, you’re probably going to be a lot more inclined to bypass City-State diplomacy and just conquer City-States in the early game—especially since you have incentives to do that in the current patch anyways. From my first impressions, this seems like a negative change, but first impressions can always change or be wrong, especially once more information comes out.

You haven’t really argued against any points I’ve made here, other than saying what amounts to “git gud”. But the fact that you don’t really seem to understand what Civ VI’s higher difficulty or multiplayer meta is, or even really seem to understand what the concept of a metagame is, makes me doubt the grounds you’re arguing from.

EDIT: Oh, and the visceral bit: I just mean you seem awfully aggravated for some reason by me just saying “hey, I’m not sure this is a good change here”.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I was really lukewarm on the split leaders, but depending on new/old teddy's revamped abilities a game leveraging National parks has me a little excited.

 

[Sostratus]

But more to the point, I don't think VII market testing is necessary to explain Teddy and Catherine.

Perhaps I shouldn’t have said “civ7” (which I wouldn’t anticipate until 2023 at least) but instead “future DLC models.”
They want to know if players like the idea of alternate personas, and how much. As compared to things like Alt Leaders.
Not that they have to sell them as their own item, but just understanding how people react to them is useful for figuring out what you should bundle into a dlc.
NFP is really low risk experimentation.