EU to end China arms embargo?

[Enkidu Warrior]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3700077.stm

Relations with China are clearly on the up. Trade is earning us both silly money and will continue to grow. China is keen to persuade the EU to end its arms embargo, which was imposed after the Tiananmen Square massacre.

On the plus side, this would be very lucrative, and we all love money. Relations with China would be cemented, which could prove important in future (North Korea comes to mind). China has been relatively quiet on the human rights front (with noteable exceptions) for a while now. It would also be a reward for their help in pushing North Korea towards negotiations.

On the down side, the US would be furious (okay, more furious ). The arms would potentially be used to crush protestors. Noteable human rights failures have come to light with the mass arrests in the lead up to the Tiananmen Square massacre anniversary. The UK will be disappointed with the situation in Hong Kong, where democracy apparently guaranteed in the Basic Law agreed with the UK has been denied. Tibet and Taiwan are constant causes for concern. Oh, and the US would be absolutely enraged .

France and Germany are apparently in favour (big arms exporters). The UK seems to be undecided (big arms exporter but also US cheerleader and worried about Hong Kong). What do you think?

 

[stormbind]

China is big, and that makes it dangerous. I have given this no thought, and I have no opinion at this time. It would be safer for all if the Central Government of United Earth made a decision on the deployment of arms.

 

[FearlessLeader2]

How many more guns does China need for its 'defensive' army?

 

[JohnRM]

Gee, France and Germany want to arm the enemy?! Say it isn't so!

China is the enemy. Arming these people would be as INSANE an idea as allowing our allied (including U.S) companies to arm Germany pre-WWII. It just cannot be allowed to happen. I cannot believe a little trade and a little money can make us forgoet who these people are. I would offer them the deal only if they recognize the right of Taiwan to choose independence or reconciliation with the mainland, and a limited arms deal at that.

 

[amadeus]

Arming a potential adversary is usually not a good policy to follow.

 

[Mikoyan]

Yes, and I'm european.

 

[Free Enterprise]

I do not think it is prudent at this time to sell any weapons to the Chinese government. That can very possibly be used for a wide variety of purposes (many a non-palatable purpose included). China already has a very substantial land military capacity and growing, albeit slower, navy. Selling arms probably will not encourage very many meaningful reforms.

 

[Enkidu Warrior]

China already has a very substantial land military capacity and growing, albeit slower, navy.

I don't think China is particularly looking to increase the size of it's military. The goal for China is to modernise its military. Arms trading with Europe would be a significant boost to this end.

 

[Karl Lenin]

This is good news.

 

[FearlessLeader2]

I don't think China is particularly looking to increase the size of it's military. The goal for China is to modernise its military. Arms trading with Europe would be a significant boost to this end.

China doesn't have any need to increase the size of its military. It boasts 10,000,000 (that's TEN MILLION) soldiers already. To make the statement you made is deceptive at best.

Modernising a force that large is a hostile act. Taiwan's independence relies upon the PLAN's antiquity and inadequacy. No conceivable force could ever hope to occupy China while such a huge ground force exists. Thier defense is perfect in its colossal size.

Modernising that colossus, whether on land, sea, or air, would only serve to make it an offensive weapon. Ground improvements would give China Siberia. Air improvements, coupled with naval improvements, would make China a threat to all of the Far East, especially Japan (massive industrial strength) and Australia (a rich mineral source if there ever was one).

The fact that China must have an army this big to secure its government's power is the only thing keeping that collossus home now. If it modernized, it could keep it people under its thumb, AND strike out to get more people into position for a good thumbing.

 

[Enkidu Warrior]

China doesn't have any need to increase the size of its military. It boasts 10,000,000 (that's TEN MILLION) soldiers already. To make the statement you made is deceptive at best.

I'm not sure on what basis you are accusing me of deception. I never suggested that China had a need to increase the size of it's military, in fact all I said was that I don't think this is their aim, which I stand by.

Your figure for China's number of soldiers is bogus. China is estimated to have a total military manpower of about 2.5 million.

I'll give my own opinions on the topic later.

 

[samildanach]

The Tiawanese haven't bought enough British goods for me to worry about their continued existence. I say sell.
The Americans should have cut us better deal over the Apaches they sold us. And the RN may get some unflyable junk heaps for its part in the JSF project. If the JSF project looks good, then I would pander to U.S wishes. If it looks like its going to be as drawn out as our Typhoon project then I would say sell again.

 

[FearlessLeader2]

The last figure I heard was 10 million.

 

[Voynich]

China could easily have 10 million troops during a war, however they currently have somewhere between 2.5-3 million. With or without arms sales it is highly probable it will become decisively the second most powerful country, eventually becoming the preeminent world power (due to its eventual population and economy). Arms sales simply entice China rush to settle conflicts and as a result do not make good strategic sense.

 

[Sarevok]

Arming a potential adversary is usually not a good policy to follow.

indeed, not to mention some serious issues in the future. They would do that only to create the next "Wehrmacht" for WW3

 

[Archer 007]

Poor move on the part of the EU.

 

[Gladi]

Yes let us sell them some weapons that will fail them in just a right moment.

 

[Mr Black]

If this happens, then we should sell some nukes to Taiwan.

Or hell, just give them the nukes. They're going to need them!!!

 

[FriendlyFire]

I wonder what conseastions the EU will get from china ?

Iam against the Idea more weapons and military spending just makes the world more dangerous. The amount of money being spent on Military is just ludircous

 

[zulu9812]

Isn't it nice that some already rich Europeans canmake even more money out of death?