Europe and the post-human society...

[Little Raven]

Europe's favorite American, Mark Steyn, is at it again. From his blog...

Ah, Germany. Was ever any country less in need of lebensraum? How about this story? “‘Dump Your Children Here’ Box To Stop Mothers Killing Their Babies”:

...

Germany has one of the lowest fertility rates in Europe, net population loss, and a rapidly depopulating east that’s economically unsustainable. Thirty per cent of German women are childless, 40 per cent of female university graduates are childless, and its last election offered voters what Americans would regard as the statistically improbable choice of a childless man vs a childless woman. Meanwhile, the last gals in the country still in the procreation business have to be offered E-Z-trash drop-off bins in order to stop them tossing their bairns out the apartment window.

By the way, look at the first word of that report, from The Times of London: “Desperate” mothers. Why, in a land of socialized health care and lavish welfare, are mothers so “desperate”? Feckless boyfriends seem to play a part. But then Germany has one of the lowest marriage rates in the developed world.

It’s getting harder not to conclude that parts of Europe are evolving into a kind of post-human society.

Now I confess, I find some of Europe's more extreme fertility rates a tad disturbing...(I mean, doesn't anyone MISS kids?) but I can't help but feel that Mark is overplaying his hand here. A 'post-human society?' What does that even mean?

 

[Kozmos]

Post-human society? What do they have transhumanist government in Germany and people are going cyborg?

I can only presume the heroin kicked in about halfways through the article for poor ol' Mark.

 

[Che Guava]

Only if he considers immigrants non or post human, I suppose....

 

[Darth_Pugwash]

What the hell is a 'post-human society'?

Animals? Cyborgs? Ghosts? Teh zombies?

The story about the babies is sickening though.

On the subject of low birth rates in Europe, one of the big concerns in Britain at least is that the working public is going to have to pay alot of taxes in the future, to fund the masses of old people's pensions (as there will be proportionally more old people.)

 

[Masquerouge]

Am I reading too much in thinking that that Mark guy would like to see religious values come back, on the hopeless notions than abortions would save the fertility rate and marriages would save love in couples?

 

[Keshik]

After reading that article, post-human must be describing these acts as being inhuman, because they are.

 

[Leonel]

Well from looking around, post-human's are genetically engineered human beings that have been enhanced in a certain area and will enslave natural humanity in a couple of millions of years. It's somewhere on Wiki.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Well from looking around, post-human's are genetically engineered human beings that have been enhanced in a certain area and will enslave natural humanity in a couple of millions of years. It's somewhere on Wiki.

Yeah, we started this policy in 1933 and are still progressing.
This whole war-thing was just set up to distract the rest of the world from our long-term plans.

 

[Little Raven]

Am I reading too much in thinking that that Mark guy would like to see religious values come back, on the hopeless notions than abortions would save the fertility rate and marriages would save love in couples?

No, and yes.

My sense of Steyn (and I say this as one who has not paid particularly close attention to him) is that he's not so much about the babies as he is about Western Civilization. He sees the Church and traditional ways as being valuable tools in this battle, and so would like to see them empowered, but I don't think he's driven by a mandate from God. Demography is his Lord and Master now, and he doesn’t like where it seems to be going…particularly in Europe. He wants fewer babies aborted, but not so much because abortion is a sin (though he no doubt considers it one) but because so many abortions mean one less soldier for Western civilization. The decline of marriage is lamentable not so much because there is less love but because there is one fewer reason to fight to the last. (and fewer children to fight with) Even the decline of Europe is not so much a loss because he loves Europeans as it is a loss because America has one less ally in the fight against Islam and the Far East.

At least that’s my take on him.

 

[Till]

Yeah, we started this policy in 1933 and are still progressing.
This whole war-thing was just set up to distract the rest of the world from our long-term plans.

Thanks a lot for spilling the beans! What were you thinking? Really, you are not from the Gamma series, are you? I thought we had retired all of them by now, but it appears at least one is still around...
()

As for the OT:

It is widely accepted that the low birthrate is a problem. The government is running campaign after campaign to convince the society to ramp up production in this area. Immigration as second source of new taxpayers is still a touchy subject, however. It appears as if the author himself is familiar with the doom&gloom scenarios some tend to associate with the issue...

And while baby bins are certainly far from an optimal solution, they still beat infanticide and abortions. At least the child gets to live.

I have no idea what the author means with post-human society. Maybe a better term would be "post-humane", as the current demographic trend will surely crush our welfare system within a few decades...

 

[Little Raven]

The government is running campaign after campaign to convince the society to ramp up production in this area.

I'm sorry, but this strikes me as hilarious. How exactly does a government encourage a 'ramp up' in childbirths? I mean, I can't think of a bigger commitment a person can make than the one to have a child. Any government incentive has to pale next to the reality of rearing a child for 18 years. You have to want it. And I always thought that biologically, people were inclined to want children, and that would keep the birthrate from plunging too low. But Japan and Italy seem determined to prove me wrong.

 

[Masquerouge]

No, and yes.

My sense of Steyn (and I say this as one who has not paid particularly close attention to him) is that he's not so much about the babies as he is about Western Civilization. He sees the Church and traditional ways as being valuable tools in this battle, and so would like to see them empowered, but I don't think he's driven by a mandate from God. Demography is his Lord and Master now, and he doesn’t like where it seems to be going…particularly in Europe. He wants fewer babies aborted, but not so much because abortion is a sin (though he no doubt considers it one) but because so many abortions mean one less soldier for Western civilization. The decline of marriage is lamentable not so much because there is less love but because there is one fewer reason to fight to the last. (and fewer children to fight with) Even the decline of Europe is not so much a loss because he loves Europeans as it is a loss because America has one less ally in the fight against Islam and the Far East.

At least that’s my take on him.

I'm not sure that's better... I usually dislike guys who think that their time and place is the best there is and the only one there should be. What a blatant finger given to the way History works.

 

[PrincepsAmerica]

No, and yes.

My sense of Steyn (and I say this as one who has not paid particularly close attention to him) is that he's not so much about the babies as he is about Western Civilization. He sees the Church and traditional ways as being valuable tools in this battle, and so would like to see them empowered, but I don't think he's driven by a mandate from God. Demography is his Lord and Master now, and he doesn’t like where it seems to be going…particularly in Europe. He wants fewer babies aborted, but not so much because abortion is a sin (though he no doubt considers it one) but because so many abortions mean one less soldier for Western civilization. The decline of marriage is lamentable not so much because there is less love but because there is one fewer reason to fight to the last. (and fewer children to fight with) Even the decline of Europe is not so much a loss because he loves Europeans as it is a loss because America has one less ally in the fight against Islam and the Far East.

At least that’s my take on him.

I've just started reading Steyn and this seems somewhat accurate. I actually find myself liking him for what he has to say because I pretty much agree though no doubt he does hyperbolize (I'm inventing that word to use here) as part of his style.

The post-human comment strikes me as a tongue-in-cheek way of calling out Europe on the fact that their policies and culture are becoming blatantly self-destructive.

He is right though, it seems eminently clear to me that without any clear world-view or any sense of their own past or future Europe will most likely sink under a flood of third-world Muslim job seekers, who actually have a solid world view with a sense of selflessness and purpose. Most likely at the same time an equally aimless but reactionary right-wing will gain strength and the continent will suffer intermittent internal strife. I don't know what the result will be exactly, but I suspect America, Canada, and Oceania will be left as the only Western powers capable and willing to act on the world-stage in the mid-term.

It sounds extreme and kind of doomsdayish and God knows I don't wish it on Europe, I'd much rather they come around and return to their roots. But it doesn't seem likely.

 

[Till]

I'm sorry, but this strikes me as hilarious. How exactly does a government encourage a 'ramp up' in childbirths? I mean, I can't think of a bigger commitment a person can make than the one to have a child. Any government incentive has to pale next to the reality of rearing a child for 18 years. You have to want it. And I always thought that biologically, people were inclined to want children, and that would keep the birthrate from plunging too low. But Japan and Italy seem determined to prove me wrong.

Don't worry, i find it amusing as well! I mainly see posters of happy families with some kind of slogan or another. Maybe there are TV ads as well, i don't know. Of course, there are more tangible incentives as well. Such as monthly monetary support, depending on how many children a family has. And there are tax breaks, as i am sure the US has as well.
Over the last decade or so, 'making children and one's job compatible' has been a buzzphrase , resulting in more daycare faculties (or promises of more...). Occasionally, it is suggested to pay mothers a wage.

But all in all, you are correct of course. Raising children is a huge commitment of resources, financial and more. There is no way the state can, or should, compensate for all these. All it can do is to work on getting rid of the reasons why otherwise willing couples hesitate to procreate.

My personal suspicion is that the high unemployment rate we've been having for years now, together with the accompanying fear of job loss, is mainly to blame. Plastering posters on subway stations is easier than tackling unemployment, however...

 

[Elrohir]

I've just started reading Steyn and this seems somewhat accurate. I actually find myself liking him for what he has to say because I pretty much agree though no doubt he does hyperbolize (I'm inventing that word to use here) as part of his style.

The post-human comment strikes me as a tongue-in-cheek way of calling out Europe on the fact that their policies and culture are becoming blatantly self-destructive.

He is right though, it seems eminently clear to me that without any clear world-view or any sense of their own past or future Europe will most likely sink under a flood of third-world Muslim job seekers, who actually have a solid world view with a sense of selflessness and purpose. Most likely at the same time an equally aimless but reactionary right-wing will gain strength and the continent will suffer intermittent internal strife. I don't know what the result will be exactly, but I suspect America, Canada, and Oceania will be left as the only Western powers capable and willing to act on the world-stage in the mid-term.

It sounds extreme and kind of doomsdayish and God knows I don't wish it on Europe, I'd much rather they come around and return to their roots. But it doesn't seem likely.

Ditto. Although I would add that Australia will probably be keeping us company, for at least a little longer than Western Europe. (They have a 1.8 birthrate, I believe, compared to Germany's 1.4) I don't think things are so far gone that Europe can't recover, but I'm not sure that European politicians have the willpower to do all the unpopular things that would help turn things around. We'll see. I'll be rooting for you guys, but I'm not terribly hopeful.

 

[PrincepsAmerica]

Ditto. Although I would add that Australia will probably be keeping us company, for at least a little longer than Western Europe. (They have a 1.8 birthrate, I believe, compared to Germany's 1.4) I don't think things are so far gone that Europe can't recover, but I'm not sure that European politicians have the willpower to do all the unpopular things that would help turn things around. We'll see. I'll be rooting for you guys, but I'm not terribly hopeful.

I mentioned Oceania because I didn't feel like typing out Australia and New Zealand and now you went and made me do it.

 

[Elrohir]

I mentioned Oceania because I didn't feel like typing out Australia and New Zealand and now you went and made me do it.

Sorry.

 

[Kozmos]

Post-human society? Eh worse comes to worst we'll just get our cloning facilities up and running.

 

[Fugitive Sisyphus]

Well the world in general is overpopulated...

I guess the problem with Europe's low birthrate is because the strain on welfare systems when there are not enough young people to pay for the elderly.

 

[El_Machinae]

There is are a series of solutions to the problem of too low a reproduction rate ...