Existing Buildings Discussion

[JosEPh_II]

So there are a few wonders that give "No in this City". Unless someone changed it this also ments that the pseudo-Buildings like Crime and Pests that give are basically canceled out. I am thinking that this should be removed and replaced with just a large amount of in that city. What do you guys think?

Here is a list of the wonders I found with this ...

- Ark of the Covenant
- Disneyland
- Globe Theater
- Theater of Dionysus

Because basically "No in this City" means infinity . Which is a bit over powered.

I think it should all be left alone as Snofru1, DH, and Lumenangel have pointed out.

JosEPh

 

[Thunderbrd]

Both of you are absolutely right. In the late game it is absolutely typical that cities reach sizes of 200 or beyond. And they become unhappy beyond repair and even continue growing if I have clicked the "don´t grow if unhappy" button. The reason is probably that there are too many buildings producing too much food. This unhappiness in the end leads to revolutions in otherwise totally healthy cities that have all buildings available and no crime or pollution, just because of size. Therefore I have turned off revolutions.
So it would be absolutely helpful if there would be standard buildings that reduce or even eliminate the unhappy faces from population. It would be OK for me if they were (reasonably) expensive to build.

Been a while since I got that far, but isn't that what the Mind Control centers were for in the late game when it gets like this? Now THOSE I can understand taking away all unhappiness!

 

[Snofru1]

Been a while since I got that far, but isn't that what the Mind Control centers were for in the late game when it gets like this? Now THOSE I can understand taking away all unhappiness!

Ah, I have overlooked this, Mind Control Center is an option! Though a hefty one with -25% as the very latest Technologies already take me more than 100 turns to research on snail. And I do own 90% of the world, my cities have built nearly all the (reasonable) buildings and all available wonders. But maybe having all those lazy guys unwilling to work again at the production lines could even increase the research. I will try it out as soon as the current hang is repaired by Koshling.

Thanks for the tip!

 

[LumenAngel]

A solution against this problem can be Celebrity as normal specialist. He can give 0.5 happy. And more moderne/later building giving possibility to have more celebrety/freee celebrity or even a civics "Star system" (power?) with unlimited Celebrity.
So, you wont have to use mind control

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

And they become unhappy beyond repair and even continue growing if I have clicked the "don´t grow if unhappy" button.

This is a known bug that I have been reporting for ever. Those buttons say "don't grow" but actually "avoid growth" by minimalising food production. Unlike the "don't grow" button at the bottom of the screen.

Whenever I have asked for the two buttons for stop growth so the city does not become unhappy or unhealthy just like the stop growth I get told that the stop growth button is a cheat. As far as I am concerned the two top buttons are a waste of space because they don't take the micro management of looking a the city every turn to decide it to use the bottom button to turn off growth.

Mechanically the bottom button throws away any food that would take the city to the next population level where as the two buttons move your people around so that they produce the minimum (zero or above) amount of food possible.

 

[Snofru1]

This is a known bug that I have been reporting for ever. Those buttons say "don't grow" but actually "avoid growth" by minimalising food production. Unlike the "don't grow" button at the bottom of the screen.

Whenever I have asked for the two buttons for stop growth so the city does not become unhappy or unhealthy just like the stop growth I get told that the stop growth button is a cheat. As far as I am concerned the two top buttons are a waste of space because they don't take the micro management of looking a the city every turn to decide it to use the bottom button to turn off growth.

Mechanically the bottom button throws away any food that would take the city to the next population level where as the two buttons move your people around so that they produce the minimum (zero or above) amount of food possible.

Oh my! I didn´t even know this bottom button did exist! Always learning a little bit...

But in fact the top button is really labled wrong, it shouldn´t say "avoid angry citizens" as that is not really what it does. In well developped cities there is so much food produced even if no tile is worked.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

From SVN thread

Updates
- Moved Sails, Sail Weaver and Shipwright to go obsolete at Coast Guard tech.

Which is not reflecting of reality. At that tech they should move from military to luxury. So sails should make building of Marina faster and all should be necessary for "Luxury Yacht Builder" and "Yacht Club"

 

[Hydromancerx]

From SVN thread


Which is not reflecting of reality. At that tech they should move from military to luxury. So sails should make building of Marina faster and all should be necessary for "Luxury Yacht Builder" and "Yacht Club"

I was thinking about that. Especially since we have a Marina building. I have a lot to go over in the modern era. I will add that to my todo list.

 

[ls612]

Oh my! I didn´t even know this bottom button did exist! Always learning a little bit...

But in fact the top button is really labled wrong, it shouldn´t say "avoid angry citizens" as that is not really what it does. In well developped cities there is so much food produced even if no tile is worked.

I've just found it generally a bad idea to let the AI manage my cities. Maybe some looking into this is needed for the V30 development cycle, but for now my advice to you would be to actually manage your own cities.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The point is that those two buttons could be very useful and reduce the work you have to do if they just worked like the button that comes with BtS and stop growth if it will cause unhappiness or unhealthiness depending on the button. The buttons already check if the city happiness etc has changed.

Edit if they did that I would have both on most of the time - well probably not the health one until after I got health under control.

 

[Snofru1]

I've just found it generally a bad idea to let the AI manage my cities. Maybe some looking into this is needed for the V30 development cycle, but for now my advice to you would be to actually manage your own cities.

I always select on myself which buildings or units to build in a city. But selecting which tiles are used or which citizens work would be way too much micromanagement. Is this what you mean by "manage your own cities"?

I have usually activated "emphasize production" and sometimes "emphasize food", though. But turning these off doesn´t really change a lot in huge late game cities.

 

[Yudishtira]

I always select on myself which buildings or units to build in a city. But selecting which tiles are used or which citizens work would be way too much micromanagement. Is this what you mean by "manage your own cities"?

I have usually activated "emphasize production" and sometimes "emphasize food", though. But turning these off doesn´t really change a lot in huge late game cities.

It's pretty obvious which tiles to work and which not to. Usually the "city governor" gets this right, but the moment your back is turned he's bound to do something crazy. So I check every city every turn.

Choosing what kind of specialists, on the other hand, doesn't seem to make much difference most of the time. Some would say only work one kind in your (current) GP city so as not to "pollute the GP point pool". But I personally can't be a***d with that nonsense.

That said, there are some silly/obvious mistakes (eg. vanilla citizens when there are specialist slots available or strong tiles unworked) that an automated city will make far too often, so don't give them the chance.

 

[ls612]

I always select on myself which buildings or units to build in a city. But selecting which tiles are used or which citizens work would be way too much micromanagement. Is this what you mean by "manage your own cities"?

I have usually activated "emphasize production" and sometimes "emphasize food", though. But turning these off doesn´t really change a lot in huge late game cities.

That is a different problem. Whether or not you want it the AI goes and messes with your cities' working tile assignments all of the time, making it impossible to manually manage those. That should really not be happening, but I don't know what is causing that or how to fix it.

 

[Johnny Canuck]

I find that the slave market at present is a bit unbalanced, as the five free slaves it gives results in +5 and +15 . Would it be possible to reduce this to, say, two free slaves, but +1 per settled slave - i.e. to get maximum benefit from the slave market you need to settle slaves, not get them for just finishing the building.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I find that the slave market at present is a bit unbalanced, as the five free slaves it gives results in +5 and +15 . Would it be possible to reduce this to, say, two free slaves, but +1 per settled slave - i.e. to get maximum benefit from the slave market you need to settle slaves, not get them for just finishing the building.

Except each Slave Market will then give +1 to all settled slaves in all cities not just the city they are in because you are adding to the specialist definition itself. That means if you have 10 Slave markets that each settled slave will give +10 wherever they are in your nation.

Which reminds me I think I have the bit that limits settled slaves to only be available when you have the Slavery World View active working. If no one objects I can put that in for this release also. I need to do one last test.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Except each Slave Market will then give +1 to all settled slaves in all cities not just the city they are in because you are adding to the specialist definition itself. That means if you have 10 Slave markets that each settled slave will give +10 wherever they are in your nation.

The tag you requested for this is one that could not yet be updated this cycle due to my inability to complete the goals I had before the freeze set in. It could also be one of the ones giving me trouble (I've a bug in that file set somewhere and will have to spend some time figuring out where.)

But suffice it to say, by middle of next cycle, you'll have a LocalSpecialistYield tag. It's basically 90% ready to go into the SVN now.

 

[MaXimillionZero]

Since courthouses were given their cost of 10 gold at some point, the Hammurabi Stele of Laws is now a financial suicide early on, since the "free" courthouses it provides earlier than they would normally be accessible actually drain far more money than they help in reduced maintenance. I'd recommend either lowering courthouse gold cost in general, lowering it with the wonder active, or changing the wonder to provide something else.

 

[Jorad]

Yeah, some buildings had their maintenance costs drastically increased in the recent version. You have to really watch out for that now.
Especially the Mausoleum early on. Because it was such a no-brainer in the previous version I noticed far too late how expensive it is - only after I had already built one in many of my cities.

 

[Yudishtira]

Yeah, some buildings had their maintenance costs drastically increased in the recent version. You have to really watch out for that now.
Especially the Mausoleum early on. Because it was such a no-brainer in the previous version I noticed far too late how expensive it is - only after I had already built one in many of my cities.

They've gotta be kidding! Is it still one of the precisely two anti-disease buildings that exist? If so, that is 'sick' in more ways than one (and none of them good).

 

[Jorad]

They've gotta be kidding! Is it still one of the precisely two anti-disease buildings that exist? If so, that is 'sick' in more ways than one (and none of them good).

I think that's on purpose. You shouldn't be able to easily stay at full healthiness and low crime without effort - especially in the early game. It was possible in v28 and was now corrected.
Just really watch maintenance costs now.