Explosion In London

[Provolution]

Yes, this Uncle Toms Hut doctrine has gone too far in sheltering the deficiency syndromes facing the Middle East. Actually, I would much rather criticize the very fabric of their societies, and keep Islam out of this, where possible. For example, they got 30 % unemployment but import exploited tenant workers. Yet, they give the unemployed youth religious fanaticism education, but no job training. Pure and simple, that does not help at all.

 

[Rik Meleet]

Yes, this Uncle Toms Hut doctrine has gone too far in sheltering the deficiency syndromes facing the Middle East. Actually, I would much rather criticize the very fabric of their societies, and keep Islam out of this, where possible. For example, they got 30 % unemployment but import exploited tenant workers. Yet, they give the unemployed youth religious fanaticism education, but no job training. Pure and simple, that does not help at all.

Please specify "they".
Link please ?

Without backup it is just plain trolling.

 

[Provolution]

I can refer to the very labor laws and employment policies of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, not to mention the other Gulf States. Workers from Phillipines, Pakistan (even child Camel jockeys) Emirates and so on.
This is not plain trolling, but I guess the people skeptical to the leading values of this region must work much harder to prove things, than those defending their right to live this way. Another aspect is the arranged marriage practices of young Egyptian women, a strong sample of social dumping.

 

[Stapel]

Cierdan, if it is your desire to rot away in ignorance......

Any religion (or other idelogies) can inspire people to commit acts of terrorism. So far, in my country, the catholics outrank the muslims with victims of terror, 10.000 vs 1.

 

[Lambert Simnel]

Sad that the political correctness we now have to comply to exempts Islam from criticism, but if someone wishes to tear apart, say, Christianity, then no one would blink twice.

Eh ? Anarres is just responding to a set of broad-brush, quasi-racist remarks which appear to be based on a "They're all the same, and they're out to get us" type mentality. Once again, you're very fast to pull the accusation of "political correctness" out of your hat, Dan.

Once more, though, we seem to veering into the territory of "why did those dirty arabs do this to us ?" Regardless of where we stand on who to blame, the reasons for the attack, and the root cause of such terrorism, I'd really prefer if people could take those arguments elsewhere - the moderators have already made it clear that they see that as inappropriate for this thread.

PS I still reckon that this is the best, most sensitively moderated thread I've seen in CfC - thanks again to the mods.

 

[eyrei]

Sad that the political correctness we now have to comply to exempts Islam from criticism, but if someone wishes to tear apart, say, Christianity, then no one would blink twice.

Attempts to understand what is going on around you are not a result of political correctness, but of prudence.

At any rate, not accepting the criticism of Catholics about Islam is hardly being politically correct. It is just being prudent.

 

[Rik Meleet]

I can refer to the very labor laws and employment policies of Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, not to mention the other Gulf States. Workers from Phillipines, Pakistan (even child Camel jockeys) Emirates and so on.
This is not plain trolling, but I guess the people skeptical to the leading values of this region must work much harder to prove things, than those defending their right to live this way. Another aspect is the arranged marriage practices of young Egyptian women, a strong sample of social dumping.

Then why are nearly all the "terrorists" from western nations and only a small minority from the Middle East ?

And you still need to show unemployment figures of the said countries.

 

[chancellor_dan]

Cierdan, if it is your desire to rot away in ignorance......

Any religion (or other idelogies) can inspire people to commit acts of terrorism. So far, in my country, the catholics outrank the muslims with victims of terror, 10.000 vs 1.

Outrageous!
The good indigenous folk of the Netherlands are living in fear of Islamic terror. Do Catholics or Protestants go out and murder anyone who criticises them, as Pym Fortuyn and Theo Van Gogh were for daring to speak the truth.

 

[Rik Meleet]

The good folk of the Netherlands are certainly not living in fear of Islamic terror. Dutch good people of Islam faith are living in fear of their Mosques and schools being burned down. Does "Uden" ring a bell ?

BTW: Pim Fortuyn was not murdered, by a person of Islam faith.

 

[eyrei]

Outrageous!
The good indigenous folk of the Netherlands are living in fear of Islamic terror. Do Catholics or Protestants go out and murder anyone who criticises them, as Pym Fortuyn and Theo Van Gogh were for daring to speak the truth.

Not very often any more. But it used to be extremely common. The muslim societies remember it well, I'm guessing...

 

[chancellor_dan]

I know Mr Fortuyn was murdered by a Left Wing hippy of some description, but it was primarily because of his views on Islam and immigration...which the indigenous Dutch largely agreed with.

 

[Stapel]

Provolution has an important point.
We should separate the Islam from the Arab culture. In Holland half of the muslims come from Morocco (Arabs) and half from Turkey. Turkish Dutch are bloody unlikely to be linked with muslim extremism.

Thorough and decent criticism of today's Arabian culture is in place here. It stinks, doesn't it?

For the lefties here:
-Imagine being a left-wing paper publisher in any Arab nation
-Imagine being a homosexaul in any Arab nation
-Imagine being a ambitious woman, in any Arab nation

Not one single Arab nation knows either Freedom or democracy.

 

[Stapel]

I know Mr Fortuyn was murdered by a Left Wing hippy of some description, but it was primarily because of his views on Islam and immigration...which the indigenous Dutch largely agreed with.

Which is totally crap and laughter.
I beg you to stop lying

THANK YOU!

 

[eyrei]

Hopefully this won't get out of hand (and I seriously doubt it will), but there have been a number of attacks on mosques in the UK in the last few days.

 

[Rik Meleet]

I know Mr Fortuyn was murdered by a Left Wing hippy of some description, but it was primarily because of his views on Islam and immigration...which the indigenous Dutch largely agreed with.

For someone with radical views you ae ill-informed.

I have advised you before to increase your knowledge of my country before you ever say something untrue again.

Let me end this off-topic session with the correction of your statement. Pim Fortuyn was murdered (most likely; the guy who shot him never told why) because he had no desire to outlaw pharmaceutical tests on animals. The murderer, Volkert vdG was a legal expert who specialised in bringing farmers who were cruel to animals to justice and he often won his courtcases. Because of his strong focus on animal-rights it is generally assumed Pim Fortuyn was murdered because of this. It has 0% connection to religion.

 

[chancellor_dan]

Which is totally crap and laughter.
I beg you to stop lying

THANK YOU!

I am not lying. Most Dutch people think there are too many (primarily Islamic) immigrants. It's a big big issue over there, why deny it?

Dutch were delighted when 24,000 illegal asylum seekers were deported. I only wish the UK government was strong enough for such measures.

 

[eyrei]

Moderator Action: I don't like to moderate threads I am participating in, but the personal comments need to be eliminated and this thread needs to get back on topic. Eyrei.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[The Last Conformist]

Regardless, the Western Project will win. nazism and communism, two much more powerful adversaries have already fallen. Why should Jihadism survive?

Hitler had as much claim to being a Westerner as do you.

As for the "Western Project", excuse me while I laugh in your face.

 

[Iggy]

Hopefully this won't get out of hand (and I seriously doubt it will), but there have been a number of attacks on mosques in the UK in the last few days.

I cannot see this being perpetrated by anyone other than the usual racist mob who may feel emboldened. I would imagine the authorities are keeping a very close eye on racist activists who may be spoiling for some direct action.

 

[Stapel]

I am not lying. Most Dutch people think there are too many (primarily Islamic) immigrants. It's a big big issue over there, why deny it?

Dutch were delighted when 24,000 illegal asylum seekers were deported. I only wish the UK government was strong enough for such measures.

You got things wrong on why Pim Fortuyn was murdered in the first place.

And the Dutch immigration issues are hardly about Islam. Immigration issues are quite complicated, mostly because you can't compare todays immigrants (mostly African fortune seekers from nations like Nigeria) with the 2nd or 3rd generation Moroccons.

BTW, sending away illegal fake asylum seekers is quite normal, imho.