[to_xp]Gekko;13014876 said:
master of mana changes crusade to give -50 science instead of blocking stuff, it's much easier for the AI to understand
I wasn't aware of how many Crusade features were hardcoded in python until I fixed the issue reported by Blakmane. My first thought was exactly that: the AI will have no clue of where it is getting into after switching to crusade. I like MoM's approach of switching the blocks to stuff to other penalties. That way I could remove the python magic and let the AI take better decisions about it. I don't think anyone will stay in Crusade for long if it penalizes research that much, though. I'd rather switch the blocks for a few smaller but noticeable penalties. What about -10% to commerce, -10% to research, -10% to culture and -25% birthrate of Great People? Since it would penalize slightly nearly all the stuff that is important in peaceful times, the AI would switch to Crusade only to wage war. These penalties may be too big, though.
If another player had not followed the installation correctly (say, had not installed patch O or had installed the balance changes before beta3), could that potentially cause OOS? Or would that just cause a version error when they tried to connect?
I believe ExtraModMod replaces all of the files that could have been different between patch N and patch O (except maybe some art) but having players with different XML files for stuff like units WILL produce OOS errors as XML files are not checked for differences in a multiplayer game. With your balance changes I think that the AI would probably value Axemen differently and that would result in taking different actions in the computers of different players. Eventually, this would cause an OOS error. Even if this does not happen, the game would desync as soon as someone builds an Axeman in a different time on different computers, get a different combat result because units have different combat strengths, and so on.
This gave me an idea, though. ExtraModMod stores its version in the TXT_KEY_VERSION string. If that string could be incorporated into the logic that determines when a game goes OOS (in the calculateSyncChecksum method), ExtraModMod would go OOS as soon as a player with a different game version connects. Once that this change is implemented, you would only need to change the TXT_KEY_VERSION in your balance changes to enforce that all players have installed them. I have created an issue to implement this change:
https://bitbucket.org/Terkhen/extramodmod/issue/199/extramodmod-version-check
My only other thought is, could they have messed around with their BUG settings, which is why we can't reproduce it? I remember some change which enforces BUG settings in MP though, right?
Now that you mention it, I vaguely remember a specific option as being able to cause OOS errors if it had different values between different players (prechop forests, I think). I wasn't able to find any information to corroborate this, though.
Kurio's computer crashed. I also can't reproduce the issue. I can, however, attach the save. Might've just been a freak occurance. Luckily it was on turn 2 so nothing was lost. I have save OCD as host anyway.
I debugged the savegame and it crashes because there are no TerrainTypes stored in the savegame. I think this indicates that the game is severely corrupted, in a way I can only attribute to the computer crash.
I thought Kael deliberately removed the building restrictions during crusade to help the AI (who can't cope with them)? Maybe not.
I checked in vanilla FFH2 and MNAI and these restrictions are present there too.
Not a problem
. OOS is kind of inevitable in FFH once you get together enough people. It's a bit like Murphy's Law. Kael's Law?
There are not that many OOS errors remaining in More Naval AI. Tholal fixed a lot of them already, and ExtraModMod includes all of those fixes. Besides the unreproduceable OOS errors you reported the only one I'm aware of is the one obtained after creating a puppet state. I hope that soon we will be able to enjoy OOS free games
Although it originally looked suspiciously like a kurios OOS, I am no longer convinced because I cannot replicate it. I was hoping it was something immediately obvious... but perhaps life is not meant to be that simple. We'll keep on with beta 3 and let you know if we encounter it again.
Great, thank you!
Cheers! The other changes are just the ones we already discussed in one of these threads - pretty basic melee line and monk buff. Chaos Marauder change is pretty self-explanatory. Mobility change was to slightly nerf mobility synergy and also to encourage cartography early - we found it is an orphan tech that usually gets skipped.
Given that the Mobility I change gives Cartograpy some usefulness it direly needs, and I would also like to make Mobility available earlier, I like that change a lot. The Axeman change should also IMO be implemented. I added a note about Chaos Marauder to the
Planar gate tweaks issue.
The other changes seem to work well for us so far.
Feel free to propose them here to see what others think
Not a problem. The plan is to keep hosting games when we get the chance so hopefully you'll get a steady stream of feedback each weekend or fortnight.
That's awesome, thank you!
With regard to your recent pedia changes and plans: Did you try Platypedia? I'm not sure if we can transfer changes easily, but the sorting and grouping via a selection box should be not to hard to implement. Also the tech tree is nice for modders who don't want to open up a game to view the tech tree. What do you think?
I have not tried Platypedia, but I have used the new Civilopedia included in Realism Invictus 3.2 (which also includes those features) and I thought it was a great improvement over what we have in More Naval AI/ExtraModMod. I thought about adapting it (Platypedia would be fine too if it includes those advanced features, specially since it probably has less mod-specific stuff to remove) but it sounds quite time consuming... I would like to at least have the tech tree, and sorting and specially searching would be great too.
I'll try to get a bit more organized about system and save-breaking changes in my bitbucket repo
.
There is at least one big change to the wilderness system I'll probably do at some point, but it's not important at the moment. If there are no big problems with the new wilderness and spawning systems, I'll focus on fleshing out the animals and lair outcomes for now (along with bugfixing, of course).
Okay
0.4.0 will probably be released in two weeks from now. It has gotten a lot of testing and it should be quite stable. My plan is to create a 0.4.0 branch right before release. 0.4.X versions will always be tagged in that branch, in which I will only backport bugfixes from the main branch (which would already lead to 0.5.0). Given the amount of testing 0.4.0 has gotten I hope that it will not need many bugfixing releases, though.
Played another game today, got to turn 97 before an OOS. Game is attached, but I'm thinking you won't get an OOS from it. Host is Sidar, all others are players except Luchuirp who had to leave early and were replaced with AI. It happened after a certain player joined the game, who was also in the last game - will keep you updated.
Importantly, there's no kurios in this game which rules them out as the troublemaker. I'm thinking it is something player specific, either settings, an incorrect installation or something that player does as habit.
I'll test it when I'm back home, but yes, from what you describe it also seems like something player specific to me. We should still learn what is happening to try to prevent it from causing OOS errors again.
one of assert failures...
Thank you, I have added it to my
asserts issue. It looks like something related to the game interface. Were you trying to see an specific tooltip when it happened? Did you open a certain window?
![[to_xp]Gekko](https://civfanatics-data.community.forum/avatars/m/74/74677.jpg?1475248346){kind=avatar}
was ancient patria really that attuned to Oghma? we'd have to ask MC here 
