ExtraModMod

[flitz]

happy new year,

let's start with a bug report

A recent game crashes on me and the reason is the combination of:

• Require complete kill
• Loki-owner has no cities left
• Loki is still roaming around

In CvUnitAI.cpp : 29292:

int iDistance = plotDistance(pLoopCity->getX_INLINE(), pLoopCity->getY_INLINE(), kPlayer.getCapitalCity()->getX_INLINE(), kPlayer.getCapitalCity()->getY_INLINE());
								iValue /= iDistance;

When the Loki-owning player has no city left, this check will fail and will crash the game. There should be an additional check for

kplayer.getNumberCities > 0

 

[Ogi123]

Civics really need some rebalancing, current effects are sometimes rather lackluster and scattered, many -10%, +10%. They should be more defined. Upkeep is almost always medium, changing some civics to low is good boost to them especially for large empires.
My current personal changes are as follow:
1). Republic - +50%GPP growth, double growth for town(and lower), +happy in largest cities, +1hammer for town, no culture incerase, medium upkeep.
2).Theocracy gets +25% building speed construction, +25% units train speed, +1 unhappy from non state religions, +1happy with state religion, no xp bonus, high upkeep.
3)Foregin trade - should be renamed to free trade, no growth for town, unlimited merchant instead, upkeep changed to low, +1 trade routes, +1trade routes in coastal cities.

I'm tinkering with rest, city states needs changes its maintenance reductions and low upkeep made it to go option for large empires. I don't think that this is its intended function.
New civic proposition in goverment column- Empire, high upkeep -75% maintenance from number of cities, -75% maintenance from distance to palace.
I'm also thinking about new civic category - military, not fully conviced yet because this will need to eleminate/change some civic in other categories(conquest ,appertinenceship etc.) but something like that:
1). militia - no upkeep, no effects
2). mercenaries - low upkeep. currency, can hurry units with gold.
3). levy armies - + free units, units produced with food, low upkeep, feudalism(?)
4). profesional armies - + 4xp for all units, high upkeep, tech?
5). conscription/national service/military service - medium upkeep, + 25% unit production , can draft X units per turn.

Edit: Other things that worked for me is changing workshop to +1hammer, additional hammer from smelting, guilds. I started build them after smelting sometimes. I'm also playing a bit with units changes, archery units really needs some buff.

 

[Qgqqqqq]

So why should anyone use cottages, with them only being boosted at Taxation (about 2500b later)? At that point everyone has committed to Aristograrianism.

Unhappy with non-state religion is an unfun mechanic. Tbh, no one ever goes for this anyway, so it doesn't matter much what you do about it, but IMO another xp source for instamages is far more interesting than what you've proposed. Also anti-synergetic with SPI, which wants to collect and cycle through different religions.

There are very few situations where Free Trade would beat Agrarianism as an economic civic, and free specialists is a tired card.


Obviously City States is designed for large empires. What else did you think it was for?

And proposing Empire, which is basically just CS but better is very lulzy.


The Military civic column is definitely a bad idea, as it reduces the choice of other columns significantly. The current system gives a multifaceted assortment of tradeoffs.


The workshop change was already made in EitBv12, and I believe will be incorporated into this mod (if it hasn't already).

 

[Ogi123]

So why should anyone use cottages, with them only being boosted at Taxation (about 2500b later)? At that point everyone has committed to Aristograrianism.

That is problem with aristograrianism being too fast and to powerfull, I often wondered about making town similar to workshop. No growth but bonuses from techs.

Unhappy with non-state religion is an unfun mechanic. Tbh, no one ever goes for this anyway, so it doesn't matter much what you do about it, but IMO another xp source for instamages is far more interesting than what you've proposed. Also anti-synergetic with SPI, which wants to collect and cycle through different religions.

You mean unfun like incerased war weariness from civics, or decerased unit production, or slower GG/GP growth? And as if magic needs more buffs...

There are very few situations where Free Trade would beat Agrarianism as an economic civic, and free specialists is a tired card.

Agrarianism is simple, easy, fast and way to strong when used with aristocracy, comparing other combinations its rather unfair to them.

Obviously City States is designed for large empires. What else did you think it was for?

From fluff/story reasons it does not make much sense, it's bringing comparisions with greek city states. Smaller colonial empires with cites on another continent? Bonuses to culture and GPP does not fit with large empire theme.

And proposing Empire, which is basically just CS but better is very lulzy.

Obviously city states should be reworked if empire is present, and yes later civic should be stronger than earlier ones, that is obvious. Besides you could always reduce empire bonuses, say 50% reduction instead of 75%?

The Military civic column is definitely a bad idea, as it reduces the choice of other columns significantly. The current system gives a multifaceted assortment of tradeoffs.

Mmm, yeah I was not to sure about bringing that change...

The workshop change was already made in EitBv12, and I believe will be incorporated into this mod (if it hasn't already).

No, currently workshop is -1f/+1h/+1c, +1h with smelting, +2h with guilds. Meaning you sometimes use them after smelting, and true workshop economy is possible only after guilds wich is to late.

Has anybody have ideas about changing aristocracy and/or agarianism to make them less dominant?

 

[scutarii]

Although in extramod other civics vere buffed nicely and offer serios competition to aristoagrarianism - it is still is "easiest to manage" combination: cottage economy developement takes time and you have to protect your precious towns from looting and specialist economy demands constant micromanagement+ specialists unlocking buildings and/or civics. Ergo the main point of aristoagrarianism - it demands zero micromanagement.

Also workshop bonuses unlocking techs and civics come usually too late: nobody wants to destroy their towns or replace farms under aristoagrarianism

 

[Ogi123]

Yeah especially with calabim and they UB, really +1hammer per pop and no modmod changed this...
I will experiment with agarianism/ aristocracy changes currently thinking about making agarianism low upkeep, +1health, +1commerce from farm. Still not sure about aristocracy.

 

[Ogi123]

Question: does anybody know how to make tier 4 units non limited?

 

[black_imperator]

open the Civ4UnitClassInfos.xml, find the classes you want to modify, change the tag iMaxPlayerInstances to -1

 

[Terkhen]

however I maintain that luirchip have a really hard start, with expensive worker, expensive axes (in science and in hammers)... it's like they need to build a hammer each time they want to swat a fly).

In EMM, workers and mud golems have the same cost. Axemen and wood golem also have the same cost. The same is true for iron golems and champions.

My point is exactly what you said Terkhen : OGRE are not game-breaking, and are not really worth it!
However, ogres are cheaper and stronger that iron golems.... if ogres are not game-breaking and not so usefull, why consider that iron-golems are game-breakers ?

Because golems (wood, gargoyles, iron, whatever) are the only fireball throwing unit that you can amass this easily. There is also firebows, but that requires more technologies.

let's start with a bug report

Nice, thank you for checking that! I have created a bug report for when I finally have time again for EMM

The workshop change was already made in EitBv12, and I believe will be incorporated into this mod (if it hasn't already).

Yes, it will be incorporated for the next major version of EMM

 

[Calavente]

Because golems (wood, gargoyles, iron, whatever) are the only fireball throwing unit that you can amass this easily. There is also firebows, but that requires more technologies.

so you agree, the only supposed issue is the fireball thingy... so there is no such worth to the argument "golems are OP at base and on top of that one gives them fireballs!!"

 

[Terkhen]

so you agree, the only supposed issue is the fireball thingy... so there is no such worth to the argument "golems are OP at base and on top of that one gives them fireballs!!"

Yes, I don't think that golems are OP either. Just that the mechanic of allowing to build units of any tier with one of the best level II spells in the game without limit tends to make golems unstoppable. Slowly moving, yeah, but unstoppable.

 

[Ogi123]

Perhaps mobility instead of fireball?

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

just block wood golems from using fireballs, it makes no sense and it makes them too good a hammer investment

 

[Eyestabber]

Can't get this to work.

Vanilla FFH2 0.41o was working normally, but after I installed EMM the game crashes whenever I generate a new map. Can't start a new game now

 

[scutarii]

Can't get this to work.

Vanilla FFH2 0.41o was working normally, but after I installed EMM the game crashes whenever I generate a new map. Can't start a new game now

you also need this unofficial patch "p" I guess.

 

[Eyestabber]

you also need this unofficial patch "p" I guess.

Which one? If you're reffering to the XML here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9730746&postcount=3966) then it's most certainly not it, since EMM replaces that file with its own anyway.

Help guise?

I reinstalled FFH2 and the same thing happened: Vanilla FFH2 works normally. Copy EMM content -> crashes every single time.

 

[DarkLunaPhantom]

I reinstalled FFH2 and the same thing happened: Vanilla FFH2 works normally. Copy EMM content -> crashes every single time.

I had this problem. I reinstalled FFH2 without extra content (blue marble, media files, etc.) and after that EMM worked fine.

 

[Eyestabber]

I had this problem. I reinstalled FFH2 without extra content (blue marble, media files, etc.) and after that EMM worked fine.

IT WORKED!!! Thx a lot man!

Also, quick question: is tech trading off by default? I can't trade techs with anyone, despite having already researched "trade".

 

[scutarii]

IT WORKED!!! Thx a lot man!

Also, quick question: is tech trading off by default? I can't trade techs with anyone, despite having already researched "trade".

yes, can change from options, if you like.

 

[DarkLunaPhantom]

If EMM isn't intended to work with blue marble, media files etc. from FFH2, maybe there should be a warning about that in the first post (since those features are included in FFH2 installer).