Fall from heaven SG - High to Low

[Bill Bisco]

Looking Good:

Roster:

1. Ozbenno
2. Jusos2108
3. Brian Shanahan
4. Fleme
5. Ichabod>>UP
6. Bill Bisco>>ON DECK

 

[Ozbenno]

Nice.

We can get some cottages up now we have Education and a couple of cities more.

We will have to take down the dwarves to get any further, maybe bronze working next tech?

 

[Jusos2108]

Actually Ichabod said:

I'll be away from home for quite some time and my notebook can't run CIV IV. So you should put me on auto-skip until further notice.

So he is out until further notice.

Roster:

1. Ozbenno>>ON DECK
2. Jusos2108
3. Brian Shanahan
4. Fleme
5. Bill Bisco>>UP
(Ichabod: auto-skip until further notice.)

 

[Bill Bisco]

Very Well let me load up the save!

 

[Bill Bisco]

Began turn by changing production of Southern city from warrior to Library. We want 3 libraries to construct Great Library.

Was somewhat dissapointed to get Mysticism so late, but was glad that we were on the path to get it.

Currently opting for a strategy of chopping wood to build monument to gain access to wine to increase happiness quickly

Pursuing strategy of delaying Waning to create super unit tough enough to take out rival civilizations. Unit is currently level 7 almost to level 8.

 

[Fleme]

Good show. Imo a settler should be dispatched to claim the corn/sheep/mana sooner rather than later. The spot in which your stack is in that last screenshots is a great location for a production city - by far the best hammer yield or at least it will actualize faster than Vetus will with 6 minable hills and two food sources.

I wonder if Beeri has Slingers already? If not, then getting our guy to Shock would probably enable us to dislodge the dwarves even from a hill position... Or, doing the math probably not. 3x2,4 would net him a strength of 7,2 while a c2 defender fortified on a hill in a city with 60% defense would be at 8,25. Ugh. (25% from warrior ability, 25% from fortify, 25% from hill, 40% from strength, 60% from city, total 175% in bonuses) Having said that I suggest we make our way to Bronze Working, upgrade our finest, build a few axes with bronze weapons and take out Beeri. A stock axe with Bronze Weapons is at 5,5 when attacking a city and our best guy would have (assuming Shock and a melee defender) 12,5 and 10,5 against non-melee defenders if my math is not borked. I wonder how the odds of 12,5 on 8,25 are? Probably pretty sweet. He might have slingers though, which could ruin the axe plan entirely. Slingers are unlikely though, since they require an investment in both the Archery Range and the tech - it's more likely that he'd have Axes waiting than Slingers. A c2 axe with stock weapons in the aforementioned scenario is at 10 strength so our guy would be at 12,5 vs 10, which is probably his best defender. Hmpf.

Perpentach is usually a good indicator of what's a high scoring AI and it seems that we could easily fill that gap by taking out Beeri and securing a little bit of land - the aforementioned spot to the north as well as Beeris land - not to mention the Great Library bringing in points.

We do have to make sure to take out Beeri entirely before going for a high score because it would royally suck to leave him with a city in the mountains somewhere only to have us swap there and have a stack of our former axes march on us to end our game then and there.

Gogo!

 

[Ozbenno]

After playing yesterday it seems I'm up again. Will be a full 24 hours before I can play.

 

[Jusos2108]

Isn't the city defence bonus only 30%? Although, I agree that we need Axemen and bronze weapons to take out Beeri.

 

[Bill Bisco]

Even if we're unable to take out Beeri with a warrior. I'm in favor of invading his territory and crippling him economically.

 

[Jusos2108]

Quick strike is usually the best option. If we stall our attack, Beeri will mass produce warriors to his defence. Although this might prevent him to get slingers, I would still go for Axemen and blizt him.

 

[Fleme]

I seem to have misunderstood the defense bonus - took it from regular CiV. It's indeed 30 if there are no walls present and assuming 2 pops but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't change things that much.

Considering a warrior on a hill with in a city with 30% defense and c2 for promotions, he's still getting +25 +25, +25, +30, +40& for a total of +145% totaling at 7,35 against our 7,2. Axes are needed and I don't think we can wear Beeri down like we did Mahala because he might have the technological capability to conjure up some more advanced units. Now that I've had some time to think about it, I find slingers to be very unlikely since the costs of getting to actual production of them are high and his score doesn't indicate lots of potential. Axes seem likely and in an axe vs axe situation a superaxe would most likely come out on top even in a prolonged brawl.

Stock axe without bronze weapons and c2 (he won't have many promoted units but I'm sure some will have c2), hill, 30% from city, fortified results in 4+40%+25%+25%+30% for a total of 4+120% which is 8,8 if I count right, against which our 12,5 is looking pretty sweet.

Either way I think it's best to bring 5-7 other axes to join the superman (or men) into the fray for control and safety with the possibility of bumrush if necessary.

This plan wouldn't actualize in a few turnsets but if we put our minds to it, I think it's doable. We can't be the Sidar for too long.

 

[Bill Bisco]

I agree that we can't be the Sidar for too long. The quickest way out of this low score must involve some conquest. I agree that there may be a definite need for copper axes, although if it's possible not to need them, that's certainly more favorable. Our Superman is near being able to start down the drill line. I'd be in favor of gaining those promotions to retain more health after battles and gain more xp quicker. Secondly, we don't quite know what Beeri is packing yet and more drill is safer at this point.

 

[Fleme]

The copper in our peninsula is actually a pretty good stroke of luck since minerals in my experience aren't all that common in FfH.

Anyways, I'm advocating for BW after Mysticism and going to warprep mode as soon as it finishes. I do think that the Great Library should be built at some point but imo axes take priority.

Talking of the GL, Celo won't be able to built it at any reasonable rate even with GK one and I'd suggest trying for it in the yet to be founded northern city or alternatively Vetus with the aid of chops. We don't need to think of the long run here and just want the score to move on. On the note of the GL, I never realized what power lies in a Sidar specialist econ. With the GL up, a regular sage is worth 5 beakers and a great one 8 - it's almost like running Representation in the regular game.

 

[Ozbenno]

So the plan is Bronze Working and Great Library, let's see what we can do here...

Another quiet 15 turns were done.

I revolted to this after Mysticism.



Built 2 libraries and employed a scientist in each. Elder Councils now.

Perp founded OO and we got a spread.



Didn't convert though.

Wines hooked up and copper nearly hooked up, sheep weren't hooked up and capital was unhealthy so also hooking these up will help.

Got the uber-warrior up another level, drill promoted as he was looking like being attacked by a bear next turn (bear wandered away though).

BW in 13 I think, so lets axe grind those dwarves.

 

[Fleme]

Good progress. Converting to OO seems unnecessary since every turn counts and we don't need a diplo plus with Perp nor do we need extra happiness (can just stop growth and work scientists). I have a few questions but I'll ask them later when I've had the chance to look at the save and to see whether it can answer them for me.

I like the civic switches - I was actually looking at Pacifism back in my set but it didn't make sense to switch back then and it works nicely here. Admittedly these civics do have the downside of having slower military unit production but that's not a big deal at any rate since the main "army" is that axe-to-be superwarrior.

The next set or the set after that will see war. Oh, oh!

Roster:

1. Ozbenno>>JUST PLAYED
2. Jusos2108>>UP
3. Brian Shanahan>>ON DECK
4. Fleme
5. Bill Bisco
(Ichabod: auto-skip until further notice.)

 

[Jusos2108]

I played my set and kept our plans rolling. Not much to do as we are blocked in our little corner of the world.

We crushed the bear lair only to find our former selves right around the corner. I never imagined that we were this close!

Spoiler :

Then we lost some cash..

Spoiler :

But got Bronze Working, finally! Training yards quequed everywhere, except Celo. I went for Calendar (Beeri's resources) and Cartography (know your enemy) next.

Spoiler :

In the end things looked like this. Our settler is heading for the corn/sheep spot. Training Yards are being build and Celo begun the Great Library one turn ago.

Spoiler :

Issues:
-I am not sure about the GL though. It will give Sandalphon a huge advantage when we make our final switch. Thoughts?
-About teching: we could beeline to Trade via Horseback Riding, so that we can trade techonologies with the lesser civs. Also with trade it is easy to control to whom our final switch will be to.

 

[Bill Bisco]

Brian said he wouldn't be available until Friday, so go ahead Fleme when ready!

 

[Fleme]

Oh snap. I'll play in a few hours.

 

[Fleme]

I'm a gambler and I'm a fool but god damn it, I'm lucky.

Who here took into account the fact that the Luchuirp don't in fact use regular axes but Wood Golems with 6 strength without promotions? I sure as heck didn't.

Anyways I didn't change techs from Cartography (no-one wanted to trade maps though) and started on HBR as instructed. Celo kept on building the Great Library, chopped the forests there and hired another scientist. I settled a city in the north 1S of the corn - didn't think we'd need coastal and that has a bit more production and is healthy. Production cities finished their Yards and started on Axes. Lots of forests were chopped in the process.

Anyways, I turned slider to full cash as I started to promote the superman and I did my math and concluded that I would be ok to go with one strong escort (was provided) so I did. I first hesitated with the declaration but recalled the proverb "luck favors the bold" and marched on.

So, marching on Ithralia there were 4 warriors (1xc2+g1, rest stock) and one fresh out of the studio Wood Golem with it's spiffing 6 strength. Well, realistically I thought that was that and I had doomed us by my action in that a declaration would lead to Beeri spamming units so I decided to give it a shot with the escorting warrior - why not. Well, honestly against all odds he won the wood golem and gained 15 experience in doing so. I didn't attack with the superman that turn because I didn't wanna get overwhelmed by counterattacks.

And since you wouldn't believe me otherwise:

Beeri got another one of those Golems and Axe got it without too much trouble. In the end though:

Not a bad tally - I figured he'd be way less developed and the settled Bard is certainly going to help in securing the city and fighting off Balseraph influence. I'd stop the advance here for a bit until we can bring in some garrison troops and maybe a few axes to throw at wood golems since he might have more and just march over what's left of the Luchuirp.

The score difference to Perpentach is miserable and I'm strongly advocating a continuation to our Luchuirp conquest by marching on the Balseraphs afterwards unless the technological situation looks too dire. I believe the Balseraph capital is directly south of Ithralia given how it's influence reaches there and if I understand the fog correctly, no city down there is on a hill which is a big deal if we want to start wearing them down.

Anyhow, first things first and the Luchuirp should definitely be the ones to go during the next set or at the latest the set after that.

NOTE There is a great scientist that popped on turn 277 - I have no idea on what to do with him. He could bulb KotE but there's also the option of an academy or settling, neither of which are bad either. For pure score, KotE is pretty sweet.

 

[Jusos2108]

The Great Scientist should definetly be used for bulbing KotE. We aren't going to be Sandalphon forever, so there is no point in leaving a super science center Celo behind.