Fall Further Plus

I see it more as people coming to the Illians as beggars, hoping they can save their empire from Hell. That's entirely from KillerClown's amazing story though. :lol:

Er... I can not imagine empires coming to beg one evil against the other.
Why not just call the banor? They will do the job cleaner and without asking for anything in return.
 
Mother still spills into the most tiles..... Goliath is definitely the largest though. :lol:


Only thing I changed to your Monstrous Creatures stuff was the Meshabber's pedia scale... Dropped it to 0.3 from 0.6 so he'd show correctly.

You should put a regular model next to the Monstrous Creatures in the Civilopedia entries.

You know. Scale :lol:

Here's something I missed. Are the other civs allowed not to SPREAD Machinarum, or ADOPT it?

Might just be me, but seems like that'd be the sort of thing you may want to spread. Thena gain, Cassiel can't spread militant atheism..
 
Fear seems sort of overkill. It is scary, but there are lots of "fearsome" creatures (such as Meshabber) that don't have it.

Just saying, it looks plenty strong enough. Plus Fear is kind of broken imo since the AI doesn't really understand Courage.
 
Er... I can not imagine empires coming to beg one evil against the other.
Why not just call the banor? They will do the job cleaner and without asking for anything in return.


What if there is no Bannor? What if Bannor is the one begging the White Hand for salvation? If the only remaining faction able to save Erebus from the hellfire of the Armageddon is the White Hand, what leader would not make that choice to save their people?

You should read KillerClown's story. It paints a wonderful picture.
 
That said, I've been busy with a particularly epic (if still incomplete) game that inspired two rather bizarre stories.
Spoiler Paradise :
Everything was destroyed. Johnathon's home city had been turned to ash by a single, terrible man who dressed as a king and warped minds with words. His family was dead. The Bannor empire was crumbling, and he knew it. The Hell they had escaped those many years ago had come for them, and this time, it was succeeding. But Johnathon had escaped, and fled to seek the single glimmer of hope that shined in the black night of the living hell Erebus had become.

He and a ragged band of survivors were seeking something that was only spoken of in whispers and rumors: the Paradise. A land untouched by Hell, if only they could slip unnoticed through Balseraph territory. It was probably a rumor, a fool's dream, if not an outright trap. But what else was there? Foolish dreams, at least, were better than despair. Those who died did so believing that their children, brethren, or friends might make it to Paradise instead.

Nobody prayed. Junil had failed. Lugus had forsaken them. Kilmorph gave nothing. Some had even turned in desperation to the Overlords, but they had also given up Erebus to the might of Agares. But it was said that even Agares himself could not touch Paradise.

To pass the time, the survivors swapped stories of woe; there were no other kinds. An elderly man, among the oldest of the group but still relatively healthy, said, “I hear the Doviello fell. Utterly destroyed. Never thought I'd be so sad to hear that news.” There were nods of agreement; the beastmen had been as fierce and unforgiving as animals, but at least they were better than the Infernals.

There was a time of silence, then another piped in. “They say there's a fourth horseman. It's only a guess... something has been leaving a trail of devastation worse than the other three. No prisoners, no survivors, villages just... disappear.” Things were getting worse and worse.

Said yet another, “can't be any nastier than the third. Disease and death followed him everywhere... I've only heard, people who actually see him tend to die horrible deaths from the diseases... provided he doesn't kill them first.”

A younger man put in what he'd heard: “they say the first horseman, the King, tried to invade Paradise.” Gasps and murmurs of horror. “But they killed him! Yeah, they killed him and took his crown! Been getting ready to do the same to the other two... three now, I guess.” Most wanted the tale to be true, but doubted it. Could the Horsemen be slain at all?

Said another, “even if so, what about the Balseraphs? They're near as bad as the Infernals. Think it's all just some grand game, love nothing more than torturing people. Break their souls, make them worship Agares so they can turn them into demons. But not before breaking their bodies and minds... entertainment, they reckon it is. Horrifying. Every Balseraph is just a demon in a human-shaped egg, says I.” Nods of agreement.

They'd encountered Balseraphs before, a few times, and each had been a desperate fight. The survivors couldn't afford to take prisoners or leave any Balseraphs to report their existence, and they dare not be captured alive themselves, so each encounter was a savage struggle to the death. After the first encounter, cannibalism had also become accepted policy; they couldn't afford to waste food or leave bodies.

There was a change in the plains of ash ahead. The eldest of the group smiled from ear to ear. “Come on!” he yelled as he ran, with suprising speed, towards what seemed to be another ashen plain. The rest of the group, inspired if somewhat confused, tried to keep pace.

When the old man reached the change in ash, he scooped the new stuff up. Except it wasn't ash. It was a strange, pure white powder, which the old man clumped into a ball and, grinning like a child, threw at Johnathon. It was cold, and upon touching Johnathon, began to turn into water. “Snow!” the old man yelled. “It's snow! It's been too long since I've seen snow!” He laughed and danced. “This is it! We've made it! The Illian Empire! Hell has no power here! Paradise!”

The air grew cold surprisingly fast as the group dragged itself towards the promised land. A rabbit, white as the snow around it, examined them. It was the first non-demonic animal they had seen for months, sometimes years. The youngest Bannor stared, half expecting it to bare razor sharp teeth, spit fire at them, or roar. But it seemed as frightened of them as they were of it.

A hunter, previously invisible, swathed in furs, appeared and speared the creature. He grabbed his catch, then noticed the ragged band approaching. “More refugees? By Auric... luckily for you, I've been told we need all the hands we can get, but first things first. Listen up, and listen well. I am to have you take the Oath.” The group stopped, and listened. “Do you agree to abandon your old gods?” The survivors nodded. One said, “they abandoned us first!” “So they did,” said the hunter. “Do you agree to serve Auric, in this world and the next?” Again, they gave their consent. “Do you agree to abide by the laws and customs of the Illian people?” And again, they agreed. “Then I welcome you...” the hunter couldn't even finish his sentence before the group cheered.

Er... I can not imagine empires coming to beg one evil against the other.
Why not just call the banor? They will do the job cleaner and without asking for anything in return.

Read the above story. Personally, I think that if I had a choice between Auric, and Hell, I'd go with Auric...... The Bannor can collapse because of hell terrain spread as easily as any other empire. Only the Illians are impervious...... and those who follow the White Hand.

You should put a regular model next to the Monstrous Creatures in the Civilopedia entries.

You know. Scale :lol:

Here's something I missed. Are the other civs allowed not to SPREAD Machinarum, or ADOPT it?

Might just be me, but seems like that'd be the sort of thing you may want to spread. Then again, Cassiel can't spread militant atheism..

The Mechanos can and should spread it, but there is a delay before they're able to. They need either a GP or GE, or the Adeptus unit. Other civs CAN adopt it, but it's such a low wait that only your close neighbors should really follow it, and of course the dwarves, who see it as second only to RoK.

Fear seems sort of overkill. It is scary, but there are lots of "fearsome" creatures (such as Meshabber) that don't have it.

Just saying, it looks plenty strong enough. Plus Fear is kind of broken imo since the AI doesn't really understand Courage.

You may have a point... I'll look at it in a few test games once it's all in.

Press: [Print Screen], than open paint, paste it and save.

Edit: What do you think of this image? It is the test of a basic reskin with a texture, still far from finished but...
PS. Is the texture visible at all? Or does it look like a color? PPS. In case you are wondering, this is a warrior...

That looks much better than before, actually.
 
Read the above story. Personally, I think that if I had a choice between Auric, and Hell, I'd go with Auric...... The Bannor can collapse because of hell terrain spread as easily as any other empire. Only the Illians are impervious...... and those who follow the White Hand.
The thing is that I can newer realise that someone would bow to Auric as his master.
Even with the Infernals you do not bow down to them and submit, but you sign a pact of non agresion, friendship or what ever.

You are sugjesting outright vasalisation.


That looks much better than before, actually.
So, any sugjestions on what to try with it next?
 
The thing is that I can newer realise that someone would bow to Auric as his master.
Even with the Infernals you do not bow down to them and submit, but you sign a pact of non agresion, friendship or what ever.

You are sugjesting outright vasalisation.



So, any sugjestions on what to try with it next?

By following the White Hand, you'd essentially be worshipping Auric. I think becoming his vassal emulates that nicely.

I'd say develop the texture to make it look more like wood-grain, and add some ornate metal-work.
 
By following the White Hand, you'd essentially be worshipping Auric. I think becoming his vassal emulates that nicely.

I'd say develop the texture to make it look more like wood-grain, and add some ornate metal-work.

...about wood grain, do you want to see the image I am using for the texture...?

By following the White Hand, you'd essentially be worshipping Auric. I think becoming his vassal emulates that nicely.

I'd say develop the texture to make it look more like wood-grain, and add some ornate metal-work.
You could argue the same about AV and the infernal. But that sounds truly and apsolutely lame.
Would it not be more logical to have vorshiping the White Hand be like saying:
"I am the one who should asend into the new frost god! Not that wolf pelt clad frost boy."

Sounds a lot more well normal.
 
Auric is currently the only one capable of ascending, as far as I am aware. He was basically chosen by the sphere of Ice. Only way someone else could ascend, would be to kill him. And that's not the way I want to go with the religion at all.

The same way as only that H. guy can realy win in a AV scenario.
But people still compete with him, not for his favour.

Plus that I think that vasalisation would be a bad way to go as no human would wilingly adopt the religion and the potential for the AI to cluter up in 1 block would be masive.


For the texture, the thing I am using is a blank featurles wood texture.
And the thing is that no mater how many times I tile it, I can't get the grain to show. It is simply to small a model.

Edit. Here are some samples that I have been working on to push the grain out as much as I could. Could you check them out?
 

Attachments

Regarding the discussion of the White Hand and vassals:
1 - As I understand it, Auric is already being possessed by the divine spark, so it's him as the new god of winter or nothing. You can't throw your hat into the ring.
2 - If you do vassalization, the AI should be blocked from demanding resources from a human. I foresee many potential errors if you refuse and the game tries to break a vassalization that is coded in. An alliance would work a lot better and make more sense, but I'm not sure there's a way to undo that if you decide to change religions later on.
 
V, is that stubey arm suposed to work like a canon or something? How will the animation handle it?
 
White Hand seems like it shouldn't be a religion you 'want', but a 3rd alternative to AV or death. It would be silly to see an entire continent go WH just because it got there first. Vassalization sortof reflects that. Plus that seems like something Auric would do.

I envision there being alot of issues though, vasalization is buggy even without a human being a vassal.
 
Er... Mr. V, I realy need to know witch one of those 3 textures is the best for the next level.
 
V, is that stubey arm suposed to work like a canon or something? How will the animation handle it?

No idea, honestly. The animations handle it like an arm... Can't see anything special about it.

White Hand seems like it shouldn't be a religion you 'want', but a 3rd alternative to AV or death. It would be silly to see an entire continent go WH just because it got there first. Vassalization sortof reflects that. Plus that seems like something Auric would do.

I envision there being alot of issues though, vasalization is buggy even without a human being a vassal.

Basically yes. It'll generally be founded slower than other religions, will spread slower, and have lower adoption weights. I'll try and code it so AI civs will be more likely to adopt it when Hell is encroaching on their territory.

Er... Mr. V, I realy need to know witch one of those 3 textures is the best for the next level.

I prefer the second there.. Sorry it took me a bit to respond, was working on the Zeps. :lol:


Zeppelin (Man-o-War UU):

  1. Requires Astronomy and Alchemy
  2. 300 :hammers:
  3. 8 :strength:
  4. 9 Ranged :strength:
  5. 5 :move:
  6. 2 Range
  7. 2 Cargo
  8. Move Impassable
  9. Explore Rival Territory
  10. Flat Movement Costs
  11. 30% chance to Withdraw
  12. 10% Bombardment
  13. Refined Mana Affinity

Lenora:

  1. Requires Astronomy
  2. 375 :hammers:
  3. 13 :strength:
  4. 9 Ranged :strength:
  5. 6 :move:
  6. 2 Range
  7. Move Impassable
  8. Explore Rival Territory
  9. Flat Movement Costs
  10. 40% chance to Withdraw
  11. 10% Bombardment
  12. Refined Mana Affinity
  13. Starts with Hero
 
Kael has stated that Auric is not the literal reincarnation of Mulcarn, and does not possess the same divine spark. He was however touched by birth by the leaderless precept of ice and chosen to be its new leader. I suspect that the sphere would seek a new god once he dies. The only real remnant of Mulcarn was the divine breath that dwells in Barnaxus and gives the golem life beyond that possible for a mere enchantment machine. It is however possible that this breath was transferred entirely to Auric and that it might be a necessary part of the ascension process, so maybe after Beneath the Heel Auric is the only one who can become the new God of Winter.



I think that forcing anyone following The White Hand religion to be a vassal to Auric once they meet him makes sense. Or, if you wanted to make it even stronger, you could make it impossible for anyone following this religion to deny any demand from Auric whatsoever (or at least not be able to keep the religion otherwise)




Agares and Mulcarn/Auric have rather different governing philosophies. Agares prefers that those loyal to him compete for his affections so he never enforces a hierarchy and doesn't really care if those loyal to him are loyal to his lieutenants. Agares is unable to enter Creation directly and his servants often have ulterior motives, so followers of the Veil could easily rationalize that the particular demons with whom they deal don't have any real authority from their god. Most of those following the veil don't even seem to know about Agares though, so I'd guess only the high priests need concern themselves with such questions. Mulcarn/Auric on the other hand, prefer an order as harsh and stagnant as Junil's. Auric is present in Creation, so their is little excuse for creative interpretations of his wishes. Followers of The Hand had better do exactly what he tells them to do.
 
Kael has stated that Auric is not the literal reincarnation of Mulcarn, and does not possess the same divine spark. He was however touched by birth by the leaderless precept of ice and chosen to be its new leader. I suspect that the sphere would seek a new god once he dies. The only real remnant of Mulcarn was the divine breath that dwells in Barnaxus and gives the golem life beyond that possible for a mere enchantment machine. It is however possible that this breath was transferred entirely to Auric and that it might be a necessary part of the ascension process, so maybe after Beneath the Heel Auric is the only one who can become the new God of Winter.



I think that forcing anyone following The White Hand religion to be a vassal to Auric once they meet him makes sense. Or, if you wanted to make it even stronger, you could make it impossible for anyone following this religion to deny any demand from Auric whatsoever (or at least not be able to keep the religion otherwise)




Agares and Mulcarn/Auric have rather different governing philosophies. Agares prefers that those loyal to him compete for his affections so he never enforces a hierarchy and doesn't really care if those loyal to him are loyal to his lieutenants. Agares is unable to enter Creation directly and his servants often have ulterior motives, so followers of the Veil could easily rationalize that the particular demons with whom they deal don't have any real authority from their god. Most of those following the veil don't even seem to know about Agares though, so I'd guess only the high priests need concern themselves with such questions. Mulcarn/Auric on the other hand, prefer an order as harsh and stagnant as Junil's. Auric is present in Creation, so their is little excuse for creative interpretations of his wishes. Followers of The Hand had better do exactly what he tells them to do.

Been waiting for you to chime in. :lol: Glad to see I was mostly correct. :goodjob:


Went ahead and made a new thread about the White Hand to keep this one a bit less cluttered. ;)
 
Mr. V. Is that A, B or C?
Preferably the whole file name...
 
Alright, next I was thinking of painting that canon Black and making it look metalic like a canon should.
Any sugjestions on the rest?
What should I do about the general gloss map? (shinines)
 
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