Fall Further - The Original Thread

If we start seeing archery stacks of doom,

An ASoD is my goal. :)


Re: Air Spell:
Maybe even at Air I? Something to use when you're not on a boat.

I hope to see the Austrin get something special. Maybe even an offensive boost to archery.
 
Yeah, it would be easy to go nuts with the promotions.

I don't think so.

Anyway, how about "Goblin shot" for the Clan? ("This shell is full of bones!")

"Sheep rounds" for the Balsereph? ("I love the smell of burning wool in the morning. It smells like... victory.")

"Ice cannister" for Illians.... Doviello warriors grip a knife in their teeth and fire themselves from cannons.

Groups of Khadi Gnostlings could teleport cannons to point blank range, pull the cord and then teleport away. You can use cheaper cannons this way.

Goodness gracious, I can't think of anything for the Amurites.
 
Or we could go the other way around and have all the archers summon an Arrow unit instead of doing a ranged attack :p (I joke)


Shouldn't be too hard to mod in, the only trick would be making the ability to do a ranged attack be granted by a spell and instantly triggered (then revoked), and it would make it impossible for a mage to launch a fireball to weaken a defender, then attack himself to clean up for XP.


Hmm...now that I think of it, it should be as simple as adding a promotion that boosts the arcane unit's <iAirCombat>, <iAirCombatLimit> and <iAirRangeChange> values (only the last tag already exists, but I requested the others quite a while ago). That would allow the mage to fight through ranged combat, like archers now can but still possibly lethal. Promotions can already be set to expire after combat (I'm relatively certain that this also works for ranged attacks), which is all that would be needed to revoke the ability, although you'd probably also want to make it expire at the end of each turn.

Before you do that, you should go ahead and allow ranged attacks to use typed damage. Whether you do it or not, I really think that we need the ability to make archer's ranged attacks include at least Fire and Poison damage types.


This would of course still make it so that the mage could not use the spell and attack in the same turn.
 
Not a bug; just a comment. Not sure if it's new or just a consequence of me loading the Blue Marble terrain (even though I don't have that flag set in my games) - while the old, neon green Ancient forest were rather BRIGHT, the 'new' ancient forest are dark and really make it even harder to see what's underneath them.

That and the end of turn button is a pain! I often have to click around 3 times to get it right so now I just use the space bar! Don't like! :(

Going on with the current thread about air spells. Having a semi-offensive promotion like that would also be a nice alternative to the lightning spell which is great...and utterly useless when allied/vassal troops are also attacking targets in your vicinity since using it will causes war.

I must say I REALLY like the BIG image of the current unit. I cannot say how many times I flew into game rage when I had a mage attack a unit instead of the fireball I just summoned.
 
I've been trying to get the End of Turn button to work with the text portion, but the short of it is to NOT click on the number, and it'll work fine. Or if you do click on the number, double-click, and it'll work as well.
 
  • Marksman does not consider non-living units as "weak targets".
  • This would mean that Demons, Angels, Undead, Elementals, Illusions and Puppets all become immune to the assassin's special targetting. They'd fight the assassin as normal, unless the assassin can find a better target in the stack. Rationale could be that assassinating such unusual beings is not quite as easy as killing injured mortals.

If you're planning on incorporating the Scions, that might take some fine-tuning... Would make the entire civ immune to assassination. Which would be awesome, but potentially unbalancing.
 
Also does the same for the Infernals. It is a nice bonus for them in that the Assassins cannot target the weakest in their stacks, but the assassins are still invisible fighters and can annoy you in other ways. We had discussed the impact on the Infernal and thought about that one, hadn't thought about the Scions, but I imagine it is the same consideration there: Just another nifty perk for the Civ, which is balanced by not having access to a LOT of varous Spell Effects (Haste, Courage...)
 
One of the tags Xienwolf added was "PrereqTerrain" - can easily be setup to grant any promotion effect you like to the Malakim if in the desert and automatically remove it if they move out.

Did I mention that Xien did a top notch job with these prereqs? :goodjob:

===

The question simply becomes "what should the promotion do specifically?"

I was thinking it would be an equivalent to the Stalker promotion you've added for Svart - effectively a "Desert Stealth". I guess the same could apply to Doviello/Illians and Snow/Tundra and the Lizardmen/Clan in Jungle.

If it would also then be possible to have an 'Ambush' option (perhaps +20% strength?, only one unit can use/tile/turn) to attack enemy units that stray onto a tile with a hidden unit, then you open up a new field of sneaky warfare :)
 
Brief comment: I second arkham4269, the new end of turn button is not working that well...
 
Brief comment: I second arkham4269, the new end of turn button is not working that well...

Aye - it's something we've been toying with but some parts of it aren't quite how we want them yet. Xienwolf also had theory about removing the red flashing as a "turn is over" indicator and using it as a "AC is high" indicator (which seems kinda cool).

I was also pondering having the "Turn Button" functionality removed altogether from it and keeping it as simply the Armageddon counter (mostly because I tend to use Enter or Shift-Enter to end turns) but it sounds like some people would miss the End-Turn button?
 
spacebar or enter already make good tools for turn ending imho. I'd say make it into a cool AC meter, blinking red when something makes it raise ;)
 
Looking good. One thing I noticed with the siege changes (low str but large % bonuse wrt cities) is it greatly decreases the value of combat promotions for them. For example, 20% from combat I is +2 str for a 10 str unit but only +.4 str for a 2 str unit.

Fair point.

I've just removed the Combat line as an option for the siege units and given them a new line "Assault". Three promotions, each granting +100% city attack.

Code:
[b]Old Catapult[/b]
No Promotion		4
Combat I		4.8
Combat II		5.6
Combat III		6.4
Combat IV		7.2
Combat V		8

[b]New Catapult (attacking city)[/b]
No Promotion		4
Assault I		5
Assault II		6
Assault III		7

====

[b]Old Trebucet[/b]
No Promotion		6
Combat I		7.2
Combat II		8.4
Combat III		9.6
Combat IV		10.8
Combat V		12

[b]New Trebuchet (attacking city)[/b]
No Promotion		5
Assault I		6
Assault II		7
Assault III		8

===

[b]Old  Cannon[/b]
No Promotion		8
Combat I		9.6
Combat II		11.2
Combat III		12.8
Combat IV		14.4
Combat V		16

[b]New Cannon (attacking city)[/b]
No Promotion		8
Assault I		10
Assault II		12
Assault III		14

===

[b]Old Khazad Cannon[/b]
No Promotion		10
Combat I		12
Combat II		14
Combat III		16
Combat IV		18
Combat V		20

[b]New Khazad Cannon (attacking city)[/b]
No Promotion		10
Assault I		12
Assault II		14
Assault III		16

So the net result is that you can't reach the top end of the combat values that you would have under the old system, but the benefits are greater per promotion for the non-Khazad units. The unit that is hit hardest by the changes is the Trebuchet, which used to be pretty close to cannon strength much earlier in the game (they were lethal in stacks). Based on that, I don't mind toning them down slightly.

As it only takes 3 promotions to max out the offensive strength, you'd be more able to take the other, more "siegey" promotions (accuracy, bombard). If the Khazad do suffer as a result of this, I'll increase their units to having +500% base (currently it's +300% for non-Khazad, +400% for Khazad).
 
Patch A - Download Here
1. Summons handling fixed
2. Goody huts will no longer occasionally provide double bonuses
3. Planar Gate experience bonus fixed
4. Sominum and Scenario icons replaced
5. Marksman promotion now requires that the target unit be living to consider it as being the weakest.
6. Puppet Promotion readded. Same effects as Golem, plus CounterTargetWeakest (the mage has complete control of the puppet and will put it in the path of danger).
7. Removed Combat promotion line as an option for Siege units.
8. Added Assault promotion line as an option for Siege units (3 promotions, each granting +100% City Attack)
 
042 version of Scions posted, plus "A" patch.


Assassinating undead:
... about the Scions, but I imagine it is the same consideration there: Just another nifty perk for the Civ...

The Scions overall balance probably still needs adjusting anyway.

(mostly because I tend to use Enter or Shift-Enter to end turns) but it sounds like some people would miss the End-Turn button?

Yeah... I fairly often play without the keyboard. (I use a wireless trackball.)

I like the button turning read at end-of-turn, too.

Maybe have the whole interface get a red tinged border when the AC is high? I bet this couldn't be done, but the AC counter busting into flame would be nifty. EDIT: I guess the flame could be static, but then it might look too much like a Hot Wheel's logo. :)
 
this new AC keeps disappearing when it's not your turn as I'm sure the end turn button did but it's a lot more noticeable.
 
PE with commanders and joining. If already mentioned...oops.
 

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