Fall Further - The Original Thread

[Peregrine89]

Hi everyone
First post - so I'd better say, like so many others, fantastic modmod!!

This and FfH are the only computer games my wife and I play (MP). We've been playing FfH for years now! More and more impressed with what's been included as the years have gone by. We have gone back to the vanilla BtS sometimes to try something different and it's just too simple for us now....

However in our current FF MP game (patch F), I'm playing Elohim as I'm interested to explore this new updated Civ - lots to try out there! (I'm a goody-goody slow builder type usually) I just built my first Abbey and then 2 monks but the latter don't seem to gain any promotions (i.e. Purity and Focus) when they go to the Abbey. I couldn't see anything in recent posts - has anyone else encountered this? Is there anything I'm forgetting to do or missing?

I'm no programmer so can't help write but would love to see some quests added.
And to add - just fantastic work done by everyone involved!!

Thanks in anticipation

Peregrine 89
Australia

 

[xienwolf]

Was the second Monk level 6? Required to be Level 4 for Purity, and Level 6 for Focus.

 

[Peregrine89]

Ah - thanks Xienwol.
Looking again, now I see those requirements in the Civilopedia. I think I missed it cos it was in red font - not that that's a decent excuse.
Excellent - just have to use the monks to do some whomping of my many enemies!! (except my wife - we haven't ventured into attacking each other yet, only boundary pushing with culture.... Could get nasty if we did!)

Thanks again!!

 

[Peregrine89]

Mmmm - sorry for typo - xienwolf!!

 

[Asharielle]

Hello

First of all, this is an awesome game... thank you for all the effort.

I have read of random CtDs at around turn 200 but not sure about this problem: I was playing the FfH 033 patch F; FF42 patch G; the Lanun civilization. At around turn 300 give or take, the game crashed to desktop. When I tried reloading, it kept crashing to desktop. Then I tried loading an auto save and all the autosaves were gone.

HELPPPP

I'm restarting Lanun hoping it won't happen again but if this is an issue that you have encountered and have a fix for, I would very much appreciate it as I was really enjoying it!

Thanks again

PS had an idea for Odio's prison; as it is a prison, it would be awesome if there was in fact a prisoner to rescue. This could be a hero; even better if he started with "hidden nationality" rather than just a mana node.

Cheers
Ash

 

[MaxAstro]

So not sure if this is WAD or not, but it seems that barbarian units of all kinds have a noted tendency to not enter player borders until turn 130 or so (prince difficulty).

This seems like it would be a good thing for keeping people alive. However, it actually tends to be the #1 thing that kills me. The problem is that in addition to the orcs, the skeles and lizardmen do it, too. And then when the dinner bell, as I call it, rings, they ALL attack at once.

With raging barbs OFF, it is a common occurrence for as many as 10-15 skeletons, and equal numbers of lizardmen and orcs, to show up all at once between turns 130-150, often in stacks of 6 or more. There is often nothing you can do against this ridiculous onslaught unless you have been slowing your early expansion enough to rush archery and put multiple archers on each city.

It would actually be ~safer~ for the players if Skeletons and Lizardmen, at the very least, attacked as soon as they spawned like they used to, so they show up in a steady trickle instead of an oncoming storm.

If you don't want to change this for Fall Further itself, can you at least tell me what code is keeping the barbarians from attacking in the early game, so I can change it myself?

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

@Asharielle: not sure about what is causing your specific CTD, but FF is still not updated for patch F of Fall from Heaven, so that MIGHT cause problems. also, you should post the savegame that's crashing here, so that someone can take a look at it

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

a couple of cosmetic issues:

1) pretty serious: smoke coming out of flaming tiles "cancels out" fog of war and blackened map. well, not really cancels out, but it allows you to see if a tile has a forest of jungle on it.

2) less important: forests on unique features look bad. some of them are actually acceptable like the letum frigus ( looks like it is abandoned and trees have grown all around an into it ) , but some of them just look very bad like the pool of tears : trees coming out of the water

 

[xienwolf]

So not sure if this is WAD or not, but it seems that barbarian units of all kinds have a noted tendency to not enter player borders until turn 130 or so (prince difficulty).

This seems like it would be a good thing for keeping people alive. However, it actually tends to be the #1 thing that kills me. The problem is that in addition to the orcs, the skeles and lizardmen do it, too. And then when the dinner bell, as I call it, rings, they ALL attack at once.

With raging barbs OFF, it is a common occurrence for as many as 10-15 skeletons, and equal numbers of lizardmen and orcs, to show up all at once between turns 130-150, often in stacks of 6 or more. There is often nothing you can do against this ridiculous onslaught unless you have been slowing your early expansion enough to rush archery and put multiple archers on each city.

It would actually be ~safer~ for the players if Skeletons and Lizardmen, at the very least, attacked as soon as they spawned like they used to, so they show up in a steady trickle instead of an oncoming storm.

If you don't want to change this for Fall Further itself, can you at least tell me what code is keeping the barbarians from attacking in the early game, so I can change it myself?

It could be that in addition to the code to keep Barbarians from spawning there was other code to keep them playing nice, which later became redundant when all animals were given such code to last longterm. I'll have to take a look around and figure it out. But I also have noticed such a tendancy before I ever fiddled with barbarian spawning at all, it was just a smaller window of time where Barbarians existed, but wouldn't enter your culture.

 

[Asharielle]

[to_xp]Gekko says:

@Asharielle: not sure about what is causing your specific CTD, but FF is still not updated for patch F of Fall from Heaven, so that MIGHT cause problems. also, you should post the savegame that's crashing here, so that someone can take a look at it

Ok, thank you for the reply... unfortunately I am a noob and not very IT savvy....

How do I post a savegame?

Cheers
Ash

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

assuming you know where your savegame files are, in the "post reply" page (i.e. while you're writing a post) scroll down to additional options, there you'll find "manage attachments" . click that and it will open up a window where you'll see three "blank bars" where you can type stuff, each with a "browse" button right next to it. click on one of those "browse" buttons, then locate your savegame and click "upload" . then you can just post your reply and the savegame will be attached. just ask if the explanaition is not clear enough, there's no shame in not knowing something

 

[Charybdis]

Elohim and pacisfism trait on units.

What's causing this?

 

[Vehem]

It could be that in addition to the code to keep Barbarians from spawning there was other code to keep them playing nice, which later became redundant when all animals were given such code to last longterm. I'll have to take a look around and figure it out. But I also have noticed such a tendancy before I ever fiddled with barbarian spawning at all, it was just a smaller window of time where Barbarians existed, but wouldn't enter your culture.

The "Barb Rush" was around in the base mod, though it may be that the "independent spawning" of animals has exaggerated it as Xienwolf said. It does seem to hit hardest on Prince and Monarch as the barbs spawn reasonably fast and have time to stack up. On Immortal Raging you rarely notice it as the barbs all swarm in very early on anyway.

The Barbarian AI is a little wonky anyway and might be something we can look at. For instance, last night we were playing a MP game in which both of my rivals ended up with Barbarian leaders (Jonas and Charadon - random leaders). I was swarmed quite cheerfully by every barbarian on a small Pangaea for around 150 before one of the rival's score got a little too high and he broke the truce with the barbarians. Instantly, the 20 or so barbs within LoS of my hawks turned around and marched 15 turns over to his land (along with all new spawning barbs) to give him a kicking, leaving me completely alone. In short - they're acting like a civ, rather than a roaming menace.

Elohim and pacisfism trait on units.

What's causing this?

Elohim units that are not within their own borders are penalized when attacking. They remain full strength in defense regardless of where they are. It is a significant downside, but is both thematic and a balancing factor for the other bonuses they can get (such as having 5 leader traits). I'm planning to look at a way to allow "All unique features" as a GameOption as requested - which will remove some of the randomness from the Elohim if you prefer to do so (their overall strength is somewhat dependent on the features present in the map).

 

[Munken]

Ok I downloaded this mod and it's amazing. But since I got it I can't summon creatures/fireballs/stuff, they just appear for a split second then vanish. It works without Fall Further though... What's the solution to this?

 

[Jhoniten]

Can you confirm for us the version you are playing? both FFH2 and FF?

 

[Munken]

Ffh2 033

Ff 042

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

Vehem, I have a suggestion for the number of unique features: what about making that number dependant on the map size? it kinda makes sense and allows them to not get too clumpy on small maps. say, you get all of them on a huge map, and the number goes down as the map size gets smaller ( maybe give it still a little randomness on mapsizes smaller than huge, i.e. on a large one you get 70%-80% of that or something ) all of this would of course be very nice as an additional game option.

 

[Jhoniten]

be sure you have applied patch E to FFH2 and patch f to FF.

recommnded order of install
FFH2 033
FFH2 033 patch e http://kael.civfanatics.net/files/FfH2033e.exe
FF 042
FF 042 patch f


personally I add the media pack betweeen FFH2 and the patch, but that does not matter as much

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

editing what jhoniten said: last patch for FF is G, not F

edit adding on my post about unique features above: I've posted this in the flavourmod thread already, but since this is FF related and the flavourmod is part of it, I'm pasting it in here as well:

"Elohim should probably get some changes ( in their flavourstart preferences), especially considering the new unique features and the new Elohim mechanics in FF.

right now they seem to not care about what unique features they start near, and only care about the number: I tried a game with huge map, all FF civs, all unique features placed on the map ( I didn't handplace them, just editted the xml so that the map generator would place them all in random places ) , and I was Elohim. I started next to mount kashekk, pyre of the seraphic and bradeline's well . not very flavourful uh?

so they should probably "have a thing" only for unique features fitting to their theme, and heavily prefer sirona's features since she's the one they worship iirc."

 

[Jhoniten]

oops, that what i get for posting while tired