Fall Further - The Original Thread

[Ahriman]

I really..really don't like the new rituals.

Losing mana is one thing, but losing all your health and happiness resourcesTRULY bites. It starves my 12 city size cities down to ~7.

I'm also unclear as to how the Sheaim, who were small and weak and whose economy I was destroying with pillaging, were able to cast a 1000 hammer ritual on ~ turn 200 (normal speed).

 

[xienwolf]

Yeah, I love the new interface but the glow effect is ... not good. It actually distracted me so much that I didn't notice the giant spider it revealed until it killed a worker. I'd recommend (if possible) that the glow only affect tiles in which a unit is revealed (so it's easy to spot an enemy unit that wasn't there the turn before). Overlaying the whole screen is distracting. And the color is ugly. Did I mention I like everything else in the interface overhaul?

I made a new version which is just the outer border. I was trying to avoid that at first since Nox Noctis does the outside border. But this next version both are still visible over each other.

Would it be possible (read: easy) to do a whole screen effect, but have it be a gradient going from clear -> color at the edges? That way there would be an effect, but it would only be at the edge of the screen and wouldn't overlay where you have most of your attention?

Wow, that is an interesting bug. I was getting so fed up with that ritual that I decided to start a new game. So I loaded up a new map......and on turn one of my new game I was still under the effect of the ritual. Still shows up that I need 23 rituals of appeasement in order to be back on the level =/

Can you post a save from the new game? That ought to be quite impossible, but maybe not.

EDIT: Nevermind, I didn't initialize the variables. So they would always carry over from game to game, if the games were played without quitting the program completely.

 

[Vehem]

What does +3 teleport range do without a teleport spell? And how on earth is a patch with 40+ changes due in a few hours when you just dropped a new patch, what, yesterday? Don't you have something better to do??

I made it so that all units can technically teleport when I did the Thades for the Kahdi, just that until now only Thades had any range to do it with. The "+3 Range" is just going to be 0+3= 3 tiles for now, but there may be extension promotions later on for teleport range, which will stack nicely.

And luckily today, no I didn't

 

[Medwyn]

I got a CTD with Patch H at the end of this auto save.

I'm not sure what is causing it.

I'm playing Epic Speed and as the Khad.

Any ideas?

 

[MaxAstro]

Wow, loving the newly added spell spheres, really looking forward to them. Only a couple things to mention: Force 3 is really, REALLY powerful against the AI. Granted it is Archmage level, but at the very least it lets you make any city you want immune to barbarians, and almost immune to AI Stacks of Death. Not sure if it will be OP or not, but it is very strong.

Secondly, I don't really like Force 2. Nothing in particular, just that it doesn't seem to fit overall. Also, it is Kael's stated intent to make Force 2 be the old Whirlwind effect; not sure if that has any bearing on anything, but I would like to see Whirlwind brought back.

And thirdly, seeing as how Ice is the fifth Elemental sphere, wouldn't it be keeping with theme to have it's final spell be Summon Ice Elemental? Again, not sure that has much bearing, but it would seem to fit nicely with the other elemental spheres.

EDIT: One more thought on the Force line: "Magic missile" (other than not being able to be cast at the darkness ) seems a bit weak. It is probably fine for adepts, but I don't really like first level spells that become obsolete as soon as the unit becomes a mage. As an alternative idea, what about a spell (Accelerate?) that is like Haste, but only applies to non-living units? A decent way to speed up catapults would make for a nice addition to the ranks of first level spells, IMO.

 

[Vehem]

Wow, loving the newly added spell spheres, really looking forward to them. Only a couple things to mention: Force 3 is really, REALLY powerful against the AI. Granted it is Archmage level, but at the very least it lets you make any city you want immune to barbarians, and almost immune to AI Stacks of Death. Not sure if it will be OP or not, but it is very strong.

Aye - definitely powerful vs the AI as it stands, though it is getting smarter...

Level 4 however is only 10 experience for a non-charismatic leader, which is feasible. Will have to look at it again based on how it works.

Secondly, I don't really like Force 2. Nothing in particular, just that it doesn't seem to fit overall. Also, it is Kael's stated intent to make Force 2 be the old Whirlwind effect; not sure if that has any bearing on anything, but I would like to see Whirlwind brought back.

We've got the old Whirlwind effect currently attached to the Austrin Windswords - not that a little duplication is a terrible thing, but I fancied having a "boost" spell somewhere in the force line.

And thirdly, seeing as how Ice is the fifth Elemental sphere, wouldn't it be keeping with theme to have it's final spell be Summon Ice Elemental? Again, not sure that has much bearing, but it would seem to fit nicely with the other elemental spheres.

Fair point, though I love the way Frozen Lands is working just now and I don't think that can be less than Archmage level. Ice Elemental might be an option for Archmagi if Frozen Lands became divine however...

EDIT: One more thought on the Force line: "Magic missile" (other than not being able to be cast at the darkness ) seems a bit weak. It is probably fine for adepts, but I don't really like first level spells that become obsolete as soon as the unit becomes a mage. As an alternative idea, what about a spell (Accelerate?) that is like Haste, but only applies to non-living units? A decent way to speed up catapults would make for a nice addition to the ranks of first level spells, IMO.

I quite like the idea there. This would also make a nice "boost" spell and might enable the Magic Missile effect to be improved a little and moved to Force II. Will have a think about this one.

 

[Vehem]

Patch I - Download
1. Fixed issue with delayed spells and SelectionGroup handling.
2. Improved SelectionGroup handling - partially blinded/immobilized groups will split up and continue to attack instead of waiting for all members to be mobile again.
3. Revealing Glow/Shadowy Fringe disabled.
4. Included Erebus-Wrap mapscript (missing from last release)
5. Added Creation Mana.
6. Added Promotions "Creation I - III".
7. Added Growth building (+15% food stored, +1 Health from Corn, Rice, Wheat, Pig, Cow, Sheep)
8. Added Growth spell. Requires Creation I. Creates Growth Building whilst caster remains in city.
9. Added Fertility Spell. Requires Creation II. Swaps Corn/Rice/Wheat resources. Swaps Pig/Cow/Sheep resources.
10. Added Birth Spell. Requires Creation III. +1 Population in city. Cannot raise population above 8. No effect on Fallow Civs.
11. Added Dimensional Mana.
12. Added Promotions "Dimensional I-III".
13. Swapped requirement for Escape from UNIT_CHANTER to PROMOTION_DIMENSIONAL1.
14. Granted Chanter's Dimensional I as a start promotion.
15. Promotion Dimensional 2 grants +3 teleport range.
16. Promotion Dimensional 3 creates Dimensional Gate (1 Airlift per turn).
17. Added Nexus Portal building (1 Airlift per turn)
18. Nexus now grants free Nexus Portals instead of Obsidian Gates.
19. Obsidian gate now allows 3 Airlifts per turn. (5 max airlifts with Nexus and Dimensional Gate - Obsidian Gates remain useful even after The Nexus for large cities).
20. Obsidian gate cost increased from 300 to 500 (Infernals still get them for free).
21. Added Force Mana.
22. Added Promotions "Force I-III"
23. Promotion Force I grants a magic missile ranged attack (AirCombat 2, Range 1, Damage Limit 90%)
24. Added Unstoppable promotion. Grants collateral damage, ignore terrain cost and immunity to first strikes to Melee/Mounted Units. Cannot be bought with experience.
25. Added Determination spell. Requires Force 2 promotion. Grants Unstoppable promotion to Melee/Mounted units in the stack.
26. Added Force Wall building. Prevents units of less than Level 4 from entering the tile.
27. Added Force Wall spell. Requires Force 3 promotion. Creates Force Wall whilst caster remains in city.
28. Added Ice Mana.
29. Added Promotions "Ice I-III".
30. Added Summon Frostling spell. Requires Ice 1 promotion.
31. Added Stasis promotion. -100% Experience gain. 30% chance to wear off per turn. Cannot be bought with experience.
32. Added Stasis Curse spell. Requires Ice 2 promotion. Range 1, effects enemy units. Inflicts the Stasis promotion.
33. Added Frozen Lands spell. Requires Ice 3 promotion. Will degrade land toward Snow/Ice within 3 tiles of caster. No effect on non-enemy land. Will effect unowned, enemy or own land. Effect lasts approximately 10-20 turns.
34. Blood of the Phoenix will now only apply Immortal promotion to units with a UnitCombat (no more Immortal Settlers/GP)
35. AI will now be more likely to build a unit when it gets bored (previously it would build a low priority building or a ritual - especially Dowsing).
36. Tower of Mastery prerequisite towers now need 5 mana types each. Mana types adjusted to match the ones actually on the relevant tech.
37. Fixed an issue with Curse the Land carrying over between games (now *THAT's* powerful...)
38. Added a "No Promotion". Can be taken only if you have a UnitCombat and have taken all other available promotions. Allows the unit to gain a level and heal as normal, but adds no promotion.
39. Curse the Land may only be used 3 times per team (previously 5 times).
40. Curse the Land now costs 1800 hammers (should have cost that anyway, but got changed to 1000 at some point).
41. Warning is given when a player commences a ritual. (hopefully - feedback appreciated)
42. Curse the Land effect is automatically removed if you are no longer at war with anyone (alternative way out - make peace).

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

awesome job on patch I guys, it's overwhelming

 

[xienwolf]

Vehem scooted off to bed already, so can't fix the official patch right now. But for those of you who play over the night you might notice the inability to construct the new Mana Nodes. This mid-patch is for you!

Just unzip to overwrite your Assets folder

 

[Tathain]

Thank you so much for the curse the land changes!! Those really address the problem, from the warning to the fact that it goes away when you make peace it really mellows it out. Thanks!

 

[xienwolf]

I must say I am so far LOVING all the hate for the new ritual It means the AI finally has a "nifty FfH Toy" that it understands and can begin fighting back at the players with

In all my test games so far, the AI has done remarkably well with using this ritual to piss me off to no end. And I am once again forced to remember that DIPLOMACY IS IMPORTANT, instead of just declaring war on a whim with half the world because I know I can take them eventually Instead a war is "get in, get done, and get out. Before they can save up 1800 "



So yeah... all the feedback that the AI is kicking your butt makes me do a bit of a happy dance But the idea of the warning that someone is starting the ritual and an alternative escape were probably quite needed.

 

[Ambreville]

7. Added Growth building (+15% food stored, +1 Health from Corn, Rice, Wheat, Pig, Cow, Sheep)
8. Added Growth spell. Requires Creation I. Creates Growth Building whilst caster remains in city.
9. Added Fertility Spell. Requires Creation II. Swaps Corn/Rice/Wheat resources. Swaps Pig/Cow/Sheep resources.

What about fish?

 

[Mamamia]

After spending countless hours playing Fall from Heaven 2, I finally decided to give Fall Further a try. I must say I was not disappointed. You guys have really done a splendid job, adding some really nifty features to an already terrific mod.
I only have one small bug to report. After a couple of hundred turns, I got the following pop up message:
“Congratulations, the burgeoning Chislev now holds Five Million souls! Larger cities allow more citizens and specialists, increasing our productivity!”
Nothing unusual so far. The problem is that this exact same message started popping up every other turn, with no end in sight. I am now around turn 600 and the message has probably popped up about 200 times. I am playing with version 042 patch H.
Of course, this is rather cosmetic compared to all the improvements you guys have made.

 

[xienwolf]

Very strange that it would happen with 5 Million and not with any other of the numbers. Though personally I wouldn't mind getting rid of all of those population pop-ups, it could be a sign of an issue with how I rewrote feats. But a bugger of a nuisance that it is only in the one case.

 

[Imrahil66]

hi Vehem, first I would like to thank you for great modmod

but I have one problem/bug - when I cast blinding light and press end of turn, game crash - patch H. I am playing as Dural and found Empyrian religion.

 

[xienwolf]

Solved in patch I. Patch H caused any unit which is immobile to crash the game (they REALLY didn't want to move)

 

[Vehem]

3 releases in one weekend? Egads!

This one is just the quick fixes that Xienwolf made overnight - one of which is fairly vital (the node construction). Nothing else planned short term unless a significant problem shows up - so hopefully the patch madness can subside for a little while and we can all enjoy a few games

===

Patch J - Download
1. Adepts, Mages etc can now correctly construct Creation, Force, Ice and Dimensional nodes.
2. Icons for new Mana now different from the sphere promotions (helps to tell them apart when building nodes)
3. Gamefont icons updated and tidied up (Xienwolf gets along with that file much better than I do - hates it we do...)

 

[Vehem]

What about fish?

I haven't linked any of the Creation spells so far to the water resources. It would probably be appropriate thematically, but the potential health from a single building would be massive (it's possibly too potent already).

 

[woodelf]

3 releases in one weekend? Egads!

That just means you've hit the bigtime!

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

YAY! PATCHES! WOOOOO *DLs and plays*

EDIT: you should change one of the kurio manas to creation, Grigori to force, illian to ice and sheim to dimensional. and other fitting civs, like doviello should also have ice, and maybe ljosalfar should have creation.