Fall Further - The Original Thread

[Vehem]

Patch L - Download
1. Corrected prereqs for new spheres (should require Channeling 1-3 correctly now)
2. Machinery Tech no longer requires Bowyers Tech.
3. Crossbowman and Flurry require Bowyers Tech.
4. Added Labor Civic "Industry". Requires Machinery. +1H/+1C for Lumbermill/Watermill. +1F/+1H for Windmill.
5. Summon Frostling spell disabled when caster gains Promotion Ice3.
6. Ice Golem added from Age of Ice. Strength 7, Golem, Cold Resistance, Winterborn. Cannot enter desert.
7. Added Summon Ice Golem spell. Requires promotion Ice3. (strength is less than some other Level 3 Summons as this is effectively an extra spell - an upgrade for Summon Frostling).
8. Added new mana types to Palaces of Kuriotates, Illians, Sheaim and Grigori.
9. Reduced ConstAppearance of grassland/forest Deer.
10. Removed latitude restrictions of pigs (other requirements still apply).

===

The first fix warranted a patch release, the rest were less urgent but included here anyway as they're complete.

The "mills" are now very decent multi-yield improvements once all the relevant techs/civics are researched, but that's a fairly heavy investment. Teching to Machinery as soon as possible and using the mills is a viable strategy for a builder civ however.

 

[KingOfLands]

Patch L - Download

4. Added Labor Civic "Industry". Requires Machinery. +1H/+1C for Lumbermill/Watermill. +1F/+1H for Windmill.

The "mills" are now very decent multi-yield improvements once all the relevant techs/civics are researched, but that's a fairly heavy investment. Teching to Machinery as soon as possible and using the mills is a viable strategy for a builder civ however.

Now that there is exciting. I'm no longer stuck with Agriculturalism to feed my hill-heavy cities with as few farms as I can chain to them.

And there's a reason to build mills at all again!

 

[Vehem]

Now that there is exciting. I'm no longer stuck with Agriculturalism to feed my hill-heavy cities with as few farms as I can chain to them.

And there's a reason to build mills at all again!

That's what I'm hoping for... The civic is definitely a mid-late game one (Machinery is an "end of the line") but I did reach it in around 200 turns playing specifically to maximise a mill economy with the Kuriotates earlier. Did work quite nicely - and is possibly better than the more specialized improvements (towns/mines/farms etc) in the late stages of the game. Normally less of each yield, but instead you get a fair amount of each from every improvement.

Downside is that sinking that much research into the Construction/Engineering/Machinery line left me a fair way behind on other useful things - plus I was quite lucky that the two evil players died quite early (one of which I disposed of myself).

 

[Mailbox]

You might want to think about giving workshops a food with it as well, they're not the best improvement and I think that they would work well with it.

 

[Tarquelne]

5. Summon Frostling spell disabled when caster gains Promotion Ice3.

Gave me a python error - didn't like "pCaster" in the spell req. After changing that to "caster" and adding "return True" at the end it worked.

Frostlings are marked GraphicalOnly, btw. Surely they aren't a secret?

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

another change that could be good for a better game play is moving "clear jungle" to a thread that comes a little earlier than sanitation... currently if you start in jungle and you're not a lizard you're doomed

that's exactly the reason why those changes to mills are so good after all: they provide a viable strategy in a setting that would otherwise be pretty deadly ( i.e. hills with very low food )

aside from that, excellent work on patch L. can't wait to try this out

btw, the link on the first post is still for patch K

 

[JeffSteel]

My apologies if this has already been mentioned but the conqueror trait on Decius dosen't seem to be working right. I moroi rushed the Bannor right next to me, but after building their barracks building, I couldn't train whatever they use for axmen. I figured it might have something to do with their training yard being unique, so I then rushed the nearby Grigori with more moroi and took them out. However, after building a training yard in grigori cities, I could not build any axmen equivalent units there either. In either civs cities all I could build where scouts, workers, settlers, and hunters if I built the hunting post. Note I haven't done any in depth world builder testing, these are just observations from regular gameplay. This seems to indicate to me that whatever civ he is leading cannot build units his civ replaces with unique versions, in cities he has conquered. I.E. if leading the Calabim Decius cant build melee units in cities he conquers, because the calabim replace all melee units with moroi and various forms of vampires. Is this intentional? (note: this was on patch K, as I just noticed the new patch.)

 

[Niveras]

Many civs share the same unit, but have different names and graphics. I think this might be the case for the Bannor and the Grigori.

Neither civ actually has a unique axemen. The Grigori have unique champions: dragon slayers. Bannor don't even have unique units per se, or at least no units are replaced by a unit unique to the civ (units that can only be built by a civ, but have no normal versions, are not listed in the Civ's Civilopedia entry under Unique Units). Their demagogs require Crusade, which only the Bannor can adopt, so it's not likely a conqueror leader will be able to field any Bannor-specific units.

Since both the Grigori and the Bannor do not have unique axemen, you only see your own unique axemen. In theory, once you get Iron Working you should be able to build dragonslayers from Grigori cities. Not sure if you'll be able to build vampires (with Feudalism) from their cities too.

 

[scutarii]

My apologies if this has already been mentioned but the conqueror trait on Decius dosen't seem to be working right. I moroi rushed the Bannor right next to me, but after building their barracks building, I couldn't train whatever they use for axmen. I figured it might have something to do with their training yard being unique, so I then rushed the nearby Grigori with more moroi and took them out. However, after building a training yard in grigori cities, I could not build any axmen equivalent units there either. In either civs cities all I could build where scouts, workers, settlers, and hunters if I built the hunting post. Note I haven't done any in depth world builder testing, these are just observations from regular gameplay. This seems to indicate to me that whatever civ he is leading cannot build units his civ replaces with unique versions, in cities he has conquered. I.E. if leading the Calabim Decius cant build melee units in cities he conquers, because the calabim replace all melee units with moroi and various forms of vampires. Is this intentional? (note: this was on patch K, as I just noticed the new patch.)

You picked wrong civilizattions.: Bannor gets his uniques via crusader civic, Grigoris uniques are adventures. Adventures are treated as heroes and therefore unbuildable in this case.

 

[JeffSteel]

Many civs share the same unit, but have different names and graphics. I think this might be the case for the Bannor and the Grigori.

Neither civ actually has a unique axemen. The Grigori have unique champions: dragon slayers. Bannor don't even have unique units per se, or at least no units are replaced by a unit unique to the civ (units that can only be built by a civ, but have no normal versions, are not listed in the Civ's Civilopedia entry under Unique Units). Their demagogs require Crusade, which only the Bannor can adopt, so it's not likely a conqueror leader will be able to field any Bannor-specific units.

Since both the Grigori and the Bannor do not have unique axemen, you only see your own unique axemen. In theory, once you get Iron Working you should be able to build dragonslayers from Grigori cities. Not sure if you'll be able to build vampires (with Feudalism) from their cities too.

Unfortunately, that's the problem, I cant build ANY melee unit in the conquered cities. Neither my unique axeman nor there generic axeman. I cant even build warriors of any kind in the Bannor and Grigori cities, because the calabim warrior is replaced with bloodpets.

 

[Visage Darkskin]

Hi there.
I've had the same problem JeffSteel mentions. If Decius' Calabim have a unique unit, then he cannot build the equivalent unit in cities he has conquered from other civilizations. I have not upgraded to Patch L yet, but I mention this as I don't see any reference to it in the changelog. I don't know if it's a FFH issue though, instead of a FF problem.

Again, thank you for your great "Stuff"

 

[Mailbox]

Djinn need Ice, Force, Creation, and Dimensional affinity.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Djinn need Ice, Force, Creation, and Dimensional affinity.

I concur.

Also, Ice mana really needs to give Cold damage.

 

[JeffSteel]

Hmm, just popped in patch L, and Ice Golems look like neon red spheres half buried into the ground........

 

[Caradoc]

More on the Conqueror bug. I captured a Balseraph city and could construct the Arena and the Palace was possible, though I did not build it. I could not build Freaks, Harlequins, or Taskmasters. I could build Adepts, but they did not have Puppets.

(If you are going into this area, would it be possible to reimplement the Elven Worker like in the olden days, where Workers built in a captured Elven city would be able to build without removing the trees?)

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Did you notice that they just created a Fall Further Sub-Forum?

 

[JeffSteel]

Ah, once you mentioned, indeed! Congrats to the FF team. The next step would be to move this thread to the subforum, perhaps....

 

[xienwolf]

Hi there.
I've had the same problem JeffSteel mentions. If Decius' Calabim have a unique unit, then he cannot build the equivalent unit in cities he has conquered from other civilizations. I have not upgraded to Patch L yet, but I mention this as I don't see any reference to it in the changelog. I don't know if it's a FFH issue though, instead of a FF problem.

Again, thank you for your great "Stuff"

I am testing things now to confirm it all, but it would appear that at some point I decided to re-write my early work on Tolerant mechanics, and I wound up getting the logic wrong. The way it is written now reads that unless the City Civ unit is the same as the Owner Civ unit, it is not buildable.


Also, I'm going to go and make a bug thread in the new subforum

EDIT: New thread is made. I highly discourage anyone from thinking I can remember what bugs have been posted in this thread, as unless I write something down I forget it within 5 seconds at best. Please feel more than free to repost any and all reports.

 

[deadliver]

I cannot play as Auric.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

(units that can only be built by a civ, but have no normal versions, are not listed in the Civ's Civilopedia entry under Unique Units).

same with buidings, the chislev war council for example. can this be changes so that one can clearly see what units and buildings are avaialable to the civs from that civ's civilopedia entry? it's way faster than checking the manual

@deadliver: you can't choose Auric IIRC, you can get him just if you choose random civ at startup.