Fall Further - The Original Thread

[Demus]

i still make the switch to lost lands the moment i get the tech (which is pretty high on my priority list). tiles with 4 food, 1 production, 3 commerce and 1 happiness are simply to good to pass up. The only problem is the immense unhappiness problem, since there's no way you can ever use all that food efficiently untill late game.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

If a trade route is worth 1 commerce, it produces 0.5 food and 0.5 hammer with the civic. This is rounded down so you don't see it. If you can get the trade route to be worth at least 2 commerce (population, Inn's, Taverns, Harbours) then you will start to see a +1 and +1 appear in the trade route window. A lot of profitable trade routes means a lot of bonus food/production. The downside is that you aren't allowed to trade outside your own empire, so it's really about developing your *own* empire to maximize the benefit.

Took me a while to work out how it worked too - but it's quite a nice benefit if you play to develop it. The trade routes have a base value, and the default setting is to produce 100% of this as Commerce, 0% as food and 0% as production. +50% food/hammers just means the setting becomes 100% commerce, 50% food, 50% hammers.

ah ok. that makes sense, i havent actually adopted lost lands yet (didnt know it excisted until just recently )

 

[woodelf]

How goes the CTD hunt Vehem? No pressure, but I get home in 7 hours and want to play with lizzies.

 

[Darque]

Oooh, the lizardfolk from my mod have migrated Congrats on the modmod. I'll have to give it a try to check it out

 

[Vehem]

Thanks to the save games provided, I've tracked down one issue that may have been causing the CtD's. It wasn't something I would really have expected or looked for without the saves, so thanks for that.

The problem would have affected Professors, Wyvern Guard, Coatlann and Misquiztli. This would also explain the "occasional" CtD's reported pre-020 (Professors) and the increased rate post-020 (Wyvern Guard).

I've made the fix to those units and tried an AI-only game at Quick Speed using all 5 new races - no CtD's for the first 400 turns (at which point I decided to stop the test as the time between turns was becoming significant).

I can't promise that this will resolve the issue for everyone, though if it was working the way I think it was, it would have been a fairly significant cause of CtD's, on a fairly intermittent basis.

The fix should not break save games and will (hopefully) apply retroactively to games already in progress. For those games that are saved right at the point of a CtD, you may need to roll back by 1 additional auto-save point to correct any units already created that would have caused the problem. It may still work for those units, but I'm not convinced it should.

I've also bundled a few other minor fixes that I can get away with and still keep save-games intact into this patch, based on the feedback so far. See the Patch Post for the full list of changes.

==

Thanks again for the feedback. As for the bugs - you keep finding them, I'll keep trying to fix them

 

[woodelf]

Any idea what it was with the Wyvern Guard? I had built one 3-4 turns prior to my CTD.

Thanks for the quick work Vehem.

 

[Vehem]

Oooh, the lizardfolk from my mod have migrated Congrats on the modmod. I'll have to give it a try to check it out

Thanks - Woodelf pointed me in the direction of them and Winddelay did some additional changes for some of the units to help them fit into Erebus. I didn't realize at the time that you'd contributed to the units though and I didn't message you to check - so apologies for that. I've amended the Credits list as per your PM

 

[Vehem]

Any idea what it was with the Wyvern Guard? I had built one 3-4 turns prior to my CTD.

Thanks for the quick work Vehem.

Heh - don't thank me until you've checked that it works. Your save-game was actually the only one I couldn't make CtD on my machine...

Basically I'd tried something that may have made additions a little simpler. When a Unitclass is defined, it has a default unit. If the unit is unique to a given civilization, you then have to go through every civilization's unit list and specifically block that new unit.

I'd tried it the other way around, defaulting the Unitclass to having no unit (blocked to everyone) and then allowing only specific civs to build a unit for that class. The result would have been that you only have to make changes to the civs you want to use the new unit, not every civ in the game (which would work out much simpler for anyone who wanted to add new units/civs), but it seems to be causing problems when checking available promotions and/or for the AI.

 

[Ekolite]

Oh Vehem, I meant to say. I don't know about Hian, but much as I appreciate the gesture I'd rather the leaders had proper fantasy names instead of being named after us. Could you possibly just put us in the credits for the original ideas and change their names?

 

[Vehem]

Oh Vehem, I meant to say. I don't know about Hian, but much as I appreciate the gesture I'd rather the leaders had proper fantasy names instead of being named after us. Could you possibly just put us in the credits for the original ideas and change their names?

To be fair, I'd stopped reading them as anything other than a leader name - been a while since I added the names and I guess my brain must have gotten used to it. It's also actually the first time anyone has mentioned the origin of the names - so now I'm wondering who else actually noticed...

Doesn't seem too out of character given the appearance of the mod-team members in-game (not to mention The Muppets), but I'll have a think about possible alternatives in anycase.

 

[xienwolf]

Your method for handling the unique units was one I had proposed to the team a while ago and they said that there are similar issues to what you ran into. It does mildly mystify me though that it should be the case since it DOES work so well for buildings. But I think that it might be an issue of having different unitcombats and requirements for "versions" of a single unit.

 

[Vehem]

Your method for handling the unique units was one I had proposed to the team a while ago and they said that there are similar issues to what you ran into. It does mildly mystify me though that it should be the case since it DOES work so well for buildings. But I think that it might be an issue of having different unitcombats and requirements for "versions" of a single unit.

Aye - I was pondering on "Why didn't they do it this way in the first place" as it seemed so much neater. Now I know

 

[TheCowSaysMoooo]

Archos have a trail in the plot with their cities, instead of a road. Is this intended, or something carried over from adding the new lizards?

 

[Ringtailed]

To be fair, I'd stopped reading them as anything other than a leader name - been a while since I added the names and I guess my brain must have gotten used to it. It's also actually the first time anyone has mentioned the origin of the names - so now I'm wondering who else actually noticed...

...I don't think I would have ever noticed that o_O

Kind of a minor point, but I wonder if there's some way to disable the spread of Swamp to city tiles? The tiles that my Mazatl cities are built on are all yielding 5/1/3 whereas everyone else's is only 2/1/1... seems unfair, especially for newly built cities.

 

[Vehem]

...I don't think I would have ever noticed that o_O

Kind of a minor point, but I wonder if there's some way to disable the spread of Swamp to city tiles? The tiles that my Mazatl cities are built on are all yielding 5/1/3 whereas everyone else's is only 2/1/1... seems unfair, especially for newly built cities.

Does sound a little unfair. I had originally planned to allow it (simply because the cities looked good that way) but since I actually developed Swampland to be useful, it's almost certainly too powerful now. I'll add it to the "rebalance list" (going to allow a few more days to get more of a feel for where the tweaks are needed and check on stability again before I make that patch though).

 

[xienwolf]

There should be a way to allow the swamp to spread onto the city, but just make the city force it back to the 2/1/1 that all the other cities get. Seeing as a city built ANYWHERE but Plains/Hills tiles will get that (plus a very minor boost if also on a resource).

 

[MaxAstro]

So, having played this modmod more extensively, I must say I adore it. All of the civs you have added are well developed and just as unique as the civs already in the game. I also like that most everything has complete civilopedia references, something even the main mod doesn't always manage.

Also, I love what you've done with some of the civs having unique methods of getting their heroes. The Cualli especially I approve of (although I'm not sure Gems is the right resource for their Priests... I'm not sure what would be, though).

Oh, one thing, although this is minor, but a suggestion: The Archos should have a unique option for the "Spider Mine" event.

EDIT: Oops, almost forgot. Not sure what might be causing this, but playing as the Cualli, the tech Warfare claimed that it allowed me to train Meskwaki (not sure on the spelling there... the Chislev hero). He didn't show up in my build list after researching it, but it's odd that he'd be there at all, since civ heroes of other civs aren't supposed to show up on your tech tree.

 

[Vehem]

Oh, one thing, although this is minor, but a suggestion: The Archos should have a unique option for the "Spider Mine" event.

Aye - I'd agree with that completely. I avoided doing events for the first 3 as Kael was working extensively on them at the time, but as soon as they've stabilized a little (as they appear to have now) I'd love to add some options/civ-specific or civ-based events for the new guys.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

To be fair, I'd stopped reading them as anything other than a leader name - been a while since I added the names and I guess my brain must have gotten used to it. It's also actually the first time anyone has mentioned the origin of the names - so now I'm wondering who else actually noticed...

I also never noticed that o_O

It actually took me quite a while to figure out why i couldnt get the Cualli hero to be built, but once i did i quite liked it. its like getting your hero starting on higher experience

 

[Calbrenar]

how does this work with the creation mapscript? Does it generate favorable terrain? I play this almost exclusively now cuz i love it lol