Fall Further - The Original Thread

[Vehem]

Infirmaries do have +1 alignment. As for the lack of positive modifiers, I believe Vehem did that on purpose as Erebus is a world of dark fantasy. I agree that -5 for Dungeons is a bit steep when Infirmaries give only +1.

Vehem didn't do anything actually

The Alignment modifiers are almost all exactly as they were in Grey Fox's original release. Only the religion modifiers and the "limits" (now 500 rather than 511 either way) have been altered.

The next project on my list however is an overhaul to make things a little more "fluid" - mostly the "perTurn" shifts I keep mentioning. I've spoken to Grey Fox and he's not planning on doing much more on Broader Alignments for now and has given the go-ahead for anyone else to develop it further.

The plan:
(1) Religions and Civics both have "PerTurn" shifts, upto a limit.
(2) Review of Building/Unit alignment values (these are one shot shifts each time the building/unit is constructed).
(3) Review of "BaseAlignment" values for leaders.

==

That's the plan, the implementation may take a little longer than usual however due to moving house and all the stuff that goes with it. If anyone wants to give coding it a shot in the meantime however - please, be my guest.

 

[Ekolite]

Would it help if people gave a list of the order of leaders from good to evil in their opinion? Perhaps with suggested allignment number? I could probably do that, and I'm sure a lot of other people would too. I think there was a thread about it once too.

 

[Tarquelne]

A 031 version of the Scions of Patria has been posted:
Download here.
Discussion thread here.

(I'll post an announcement here after needed FF compatibility updates, not every SOP patch.)

 

[Vehem]

Would it help if people gave a list of the order of leaders from good to evil in their opinion? Perhaps with suggested allignment number? I could probably do that, and I'm sure a lot of other people would too. I think there was a thread about it once too.

Aye - there was.

The main thing I'm planning to change for those is making sure each leader is more "central" within their alignment - there are currently some neutral leaders who are very close to good etc (and Hannah was so close to evil that she dropped down when the limits were shifted slightly - which also needs correcting).

There will still be leaders that are "more evil" or "neutral-on-the-goodside" - but it'll take a little more effort/time to make them shift alignment (I want at least a 50 alignment point buffer between their initial alignment and any other).

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I for one think that the alignment modifiers of OO, RoK, Empyrean, and CoE should be smaller.

Would it be possible to make religions (civics, units, etc) move you closer to neutral instead of good or evil? It might be good for FoL to move you slightly away from either extreme. RoK could move you both towards good and towards neutral. It would stop civs following the religion from being evil, but not make all the dwarves instantly good. I'm also thinking Pacifism could move you towards neutral, as these civs wouldn't want to take sides in the battle of good versus evil.

I would still prefer the numerical alignment only show up in mouseovers, and I think that the alignment bar is really unnecessary.

 

[Falc]

Vehem, been merging your CvMainInterface with the FFHBUG one.

Can you think of a quick way to test for the presence of Fall Further? 'cause then I can just put

if <test for FallFurther>:
    import CvMainInterfaceWithFF as CvMainInterface
else:
    import CvMainInterface

in my CvScreensInterface file and there will be no need for filename changing or overwriting or anything.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

You are going to release this Fall Further Bug mod, right? (Or get Vehem to include it int eh next main release?)

 

[xienwolf]

Quick way to test would be if the Number of Civilizations is greater than 25 (leaves breathing room for FfH to gain more, which is unlikely, you could check for greater than 22 if you want).


To have alignments move you toward Neutral, you should do something like "New Alignment = Old Alignment * 2/3," this gets you a relative shift which will tend to be fairly minor, unless you are an extremist, in which case it ought to be fairly major IMO.

 

[Falc]

Can you be more specific, Xienwolf? I mean, I know python, I know XML, I just don't know squat about the Civ4 API

 

[mahazel]

When I want to load a mod, the error is appearing:

GFC Error: failed to initialize the primary control theme.

I don`t know what to do

 

[xienwolf]

Reasonably certain that what you are looking for is getNumCivilizatonInfos, so your code would be

if gc.getNumCivilizationInfos() < 25:
    import CvMainInterfaceWithFF as CvMainInterface
else:
    import CvMainInterface

 

[BeefontheBone]

Don't you want greater than there?

 

[Vehem]

Reasonably certain that what you are looking for is getNumCivilizatonInfos, so your code would be

if gc.getNumCivilizationInfos() < 25:
    import CvMainInterfaceWithFF as CvMainInterface
else:
    import CvMainInterface

That should work - otherwise can just test for a specific Fall Further related info (which covers the case where Fall from Heaven expands - "minor civs" may turn up with Ice as scenario elements perhaps?)

if gc.getInfoTypeForString("CIVILIZATION_ARCHOS") != -1:
    import CvMainInterfaceWithFF as CvMainInterface
else:
    import CvMainInterface

Either way will work for the current version at least though - looking forward to seeing it

When I want to load a mod, the error is appearing:

GFC Error: failed to initialize the primary control theme.

I don`t know what to do

Make sure either your default FfH install or the Fall Further one uses the name Kael's installer uses - "Mods\Fall from Heaven 032\". The way Civ4 "resources" are handled is a little clumsy and so you need to have at least one version of the mod in a directory by that name so that they can be located.

 

[thomas.berubeg]

If you are accepting requests for new civs:

The redeemed

Leader: Brigit the Shining
alignment: Good

Once Brigit is frees from her prison, she finsd the largest Barbarian city without a hero in it, and takes it over, redeeming the orcs.

Thier ultimate goal is to bring Bhall back to Good.

they would use Orcish art.

I'll flesh this out more if you are interested.

did this get lost? ( we X-posted, so i'm not sure if you saw this...)

 

[Vehem]

did this get lost? ( we X-posted, so i'm not sure if you saw this...)

Aye - missed it the first time round. Interesting idea, but will be quite difficult to "get right". I also tend to stay to the fringe of the canon with new civs - they're definitely tied in to the lore, but I haven't really considered taking a fairly substantial character (Bhall's archangel is pretty "substantial") and developing around them.

Still - I'll keep the idea in mind. There's one civ I already have fairly well planned (Explorer/Trickster/Leader "follows" Tali (as far as you can follow the wind...) though not reflected in the whole civ - they have normal religion options/Air Sphere) and the Alignment is the other major project I want to take up. It will be a couple of weeks before I start developing again though - I'm just maintaining the mod until I've finished up moving house.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

care to elaborate on this tali following civ? im intregued...

 

[Arctic Circle]

What I see as vital to each civilization is 'what makes it unique' and 'can it be balanced'. Why not make a new leader to the Clan and choose a play strategy that makes them good? Why a whole new Civ for good orcs? Its not a put down, I just don't understand.

 

[Vehem]

care to elaborate on this tali following civ? im intregued...

Easiest option would be to just paste the brainstorm notes I made...

Deirdra
	Follower of Tali
	Trickster
	Explorer
	Rogues - "Not criminals - as such - but they do have a way of being where they're not supposed to..."
	Shore Parties - Ship-based summons, can travel in-land (limited duration, can not attack, ignore terrain?)
	Auto fair-winds ships (same mechanic as "Crazed" - granted randomly, but fairly frequently - "fleetingly favoured by the god of Air")
	Scouts travel across rival territory
	Sentry-like ability
	"Elusive" hero.
	Trackers - Adventurer units (Ranger UU, weaker but moved to Tracking? Non-animal abilities)
	"Light" promotion available to Melee line (Discard Equipment - can only re-equip once it reaches a city??).
	Wayshrines - temporary improvements in Neutral territory - heal-rate boosted

Themes - exploring the land/seas (shore parties are to explore distant land masses), being able to travel to places other civs may not be able to (lots of "Explore Rival Territory" recon units - Rogues etc), potential to move quickly when needed (Fair Winds and "Light" melee option)

EDIT: Attached Deirdra's leaderhead.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

very nice idea for a civ vehem, i can see the lanun and these guys either being best of friends or worst enemies. im sure the beleraphs would like them too

 

[Wyrmhero]

I played as the Belsaraphs today for the first time in a long while. I decided to declare war on the Elves for that nice Hoard of gems they have (Orthus and Archeron were destroyed when the cultural boundaries shifted ). Shortly after I decide to give my gold to the first person who can stab themselves four times in the heart and survive, the Lizardmen (Cualli) declare war on me for not giving horses to them (which I was using to rip people apart in the arena). I defeat their only unit to attack me in the first 20 turns of the war, a Hunter, and I get a Lizardman Slave. I take it to my capital, and decide it would look lovely as a wall decoration. I cast 'Add to Freak Show', and it magically changes... Into a human in a cage.

To cut a long story short, there is no Lizardman Cage, and the 'Add to Freak Show' adds a human cage instead.