Fall Further - The Original Thread

[HunterCyprus]

Thanks much for the quick reply!

That would explain why I haven't been able to cast it, I don't have any non-living units yet. Been at war with the Illians for a good 3-400 turns now and they are stifling my economy, lol.

 

[Tamed]

So wow.. I'm a bit late to the party here, how do I use this modmod? I already have FfH and patch J for it, just got it today. Do I just download patch "L" from this thread and unzip it to my FfH folder? There's just so much info, I'm overwhelmed!

 

[xienwolf]

You need our main download and our patch. You don't actually need FfH at all, though it helps to have played it for the learning curve.

 

[Rainbowsand]

It is so amusing to observe that FfH and FF, being constantly improved, are slowly closing to some abstract perfection which suspiciously resembles Master of Magic...

So why not separate research into three completely independable trees of divine and mundane and arcane? Three types of research points, mana*(magic units) arcane, temple*worshippers divine and old civ mundane? event scripts adding rps to techs are capable of this, and some on-screen labels may be used to indicate progress in these two not fitting into top-screen scale? so dwarves will be at last unable to uncover necromantic spells by means of forged ore...

 

[Rainbowsand]

Was irritated with following phrase in Khazad description on game start that they are 'all about money' - wrong imo because
'Gold can be shaped into money, but money that is not gold cannot become so' c Rainbowsand
and Mammon delusions are once again imo have little to do with dwarven goldlust.
And gems! That is what a true Rhazad passion is, remember Arkenstone? So it would be logical to assume... no, not a trap, but integration with significant impact level of gem gold and stuff (ithildin and like) into treasury vault thing.

P.S. Why not rename Khazad starting settlement into Khazad Duum?

 

[xienwolf]

3 groups of tech meaning 3 branches? Tech tree already has 5 or more as I recall things (Magic/religion/recon/melee/mounted/financial...). Or do you mean making it such that you can work on 3 things at once?

 

[Rainbowsand]

3 groups of tech meaning 3 branches? Tech tree already has 5 or more as I recall things (Magic/religion/recon/melee/mounted/financial...). Or do you mean making it such that you can work on 3 things at once?

Not branches, but trees which means yes, at once. Thats an outdated though i just thought of better, inspired by Dungeon Siege lvl up system.

Reason: i find it quite amusing to imagine how elderly seelie councillors are sitting around cosy fire and inventing mithril golem crafting, etc

So: Each tech must require a specific type of research points which are generated based upon associated type specialists and in-game events

-farming: these rps shall receive boost when new farms, windmills, plantations, granaries, smokehouses, ... are built, shall increase slowly each turn based on worked tiles with these improvements and be diverted only into agrary techs such as agriculture, calendar and like

-hunting: camps, fishing boats, hunter lodges, ...; worked tiles with'em; hunters killing/taking animals; number of hunters;

-crafting: engineers, forges, mines, ...

-commerce

-arcane

- alignment-based divine

-...

There also shall be synergies, such as sages delving in both arcane and divine mysteries, farmers contributing to commerce, ...

Each major tech shall have mini-techs inside providing stat boosts to existing features - though i have doubts about technically implementing it

And automatic branch switches based upon empire status and player decisions both...

Wow, as this ruleset unfolds into my mind i see a whole new economic system that sends Sid's omnibuck altogether with omnihammer straight to hell. (or more precise, to the plane of oblivion)

So, if someone is interested and possibly considering to implement all this i may move it all to a new thread and start to fill those brief outlines with more and more details. Tell me so i shall not waste my time for naught.

P.S. Always wanted to live in society that manages without the whole money concept and instantly disliked MoO]I[ for silicoids and clackons paying taxes...

P.P.S. Imo money taxes and other like stuff must have place only in heavily Mammon influenced cultures - dwarves are for gold and barter, elves can shoot anything they cannot handmade (and in case of unseelie steal/loot the rest) and so on and so forth. Purge the wicked Mammon delusions! (from this game and as i mentioned not completely)

Someone noticed that this culture feature is basically a domain/dominion of god/wizard ruler and has nothing to do with workable tiles but must determine spellcasting possibility/amplification? and transformation/maintaining enchantments too? Nodes... casters... wonders as relays/amplifiers...

So to say workable city area should expand size- not culture-based

So to summarize today's ravings: Sid and brian had gave us an excellent graphical and scripting engine but purposefully filled it with stupid stuff - anyone who played alpha should see it.

And enlarge the maps for not all of us are running the relics from beginnings of current millenia

 

[King Flevance]

One problem me and my friend have encountered is the inability to connect in the lobby. We both downloaded the original mod from the first post of this thread and patch C from the same post. (Both have 3.19) Then immediatley went online with it. I saw another game on the list called DOBERMAN, he did not. I made up a game and he could not see it or DOBERMAN on the list. So he made a game and I could only see DOBERMAN. I haven't got to really sit down and play this modmod alot but from the little time I have spent playing (about 100 turns in SP) is already worth a kudos. This modmod is great. It seems to run somewhat slow comparatively, although I saw you guys are aware of that. I just wanted to bring the inability to connect up to see if anyone has any ideas as to what is causing the problem. I know you guys are running into OOS issues right now as well from what I have read.

 

[Rainbowsand]

If to scorch a forest, it spawns defenders.
So it would be logical to spawn defenders when chopping too.
Imagine: your wonder is in urgent need of prod boost, you attempt to chop the forest and POW! Fawn who sets on killing spree murdering your workers, pillaging improvements and then disappears in the wilderness with characteristical fawny laugh... that would be wicked sick! with Nature's blessing.

Because these spawned already after treecidal action are called avengers, not defenders.

 

[Rainbowsand]

Description of some great commander: "you say they ate rocks?" Ogres do not eat rocks, author of that 'jest' must have mistaken them for Pratchett trolls. They are large humanoid brutes who devour meat of slain organic foes, humans included.

 

[Rainbowsand]

Ljosalfar:
-forests act as roads
-worker can build Plant Forest (gold cost, tech req - agri? calendar?)

 

[Rainbowsand]

GIVE ME BARBARIANS!!!
Or at least tell me where to poke to adjust barb/animal spawn levels -
(yes,yes, i turned all these double barbs and beasts on) -
because all i get after those intriguing stories about merciless onslaughts and rampaging hordes are a few stragglers and that feeble Orthus who attacked my town, killed 2 warriors and died upon the stick of the third. Orthus the Destroyer of Clueless Players and Clumsy Scripts he must be called for the sake of truth.
Darn, i can barely find them to hunt - have to go into polar wastes to catch some!
Once i got so discouraged that left a single warrior in my capital - and these cowardly bastards launched a coordinated sneak attack with lizard - dead and wight - succeeded. And most mysterious sight i saw was that frostling march - about 20 of them in straight column walked close to my border, not even stopping to attack my newbie hunter who tried to block their way. Please, triple or quadruple lair spawn rates on the next patch, if only optionally. It should not imo be a mortal threat to script civs as they spam a lot of warriors early.
Ah yes, i play x1.5 size perf world 2 map with 70 land on marathon

And what i point at, that there should be scripts that would occasionally trigger something like mongol and timurid invasions in M:TW2, ex: "Aroused by the rumours of untold riches amassed by the tireless Khazad miners, seven goblin clans were gathered under the banner of an Lying Tongue (i mean, lying on the ground because it was ripped out someone's epic throat by no less epic bare hands) Orc tribe (to make orc sound like an Orc, add them some stats) Warchief Bare-Handed Tongue Ripper (or Gurgl-Slap in the orcish tongue) who gained allegiance of three hill trolls (by feeding them superfluous goblins and promising some gold to grasp and lots of dwarves and walls to smash upon each other) and led them on the blazing rampage thru three empires on the Khazad Duum, where vaults were overflowing" and, most important, they made it to the dwarves, and not died trying to kill some Red Rory of the Glen warrior on the hill.

"There is no such thing as unbeatable PC game unless it bugged beyond recognition or has no save/load"
/Rainbowsand

 

[Rainbowsand]

And yes, what are those lizardmen doing in the frozen tundra?
Addition of strength and movespeed penalty in cold terrain is necessary,
along with the script that would tell them not to go into the cold lands and crawl out there as animals do it with domain borders
and they shouldn't spawn in the cold at all

 

[Rainbowsand]

Cannot but highly praise light elven selection of music - if only unit sounds were hand picked as well... Enya's songs and movies like 'House of flying daggers' or 'Crouching tiger, Hidden Dragon' are good places to look i think

 

[odalrick]

Description of some great commander: "you say they ate rocks?" Ogres do not eat rocks, author of that 'jest' must have mistaken them for Pratchett trolls. They are large humanoid brutes who devour meat of slain organic foes, humans included.

Sure, you know that Ogres don't eat rocks... I know that Ogres don't eat rocks... But do Ogres know that Ogres don't eat rocks?

Not to mention that anyone that might mention it to the Ogres is likely to be edible.

(Also, rocks could be an important part of the Ogre diet, grinding up anything else they eat. Like bird eat sand.)

 

[Rainbowsand]

(Also, rocks could be an important part of the Ogre diet, grinding up anything else they eat. Like bird eat sand.)

Yes, maybe that is the case, but there is two buts:
-first, none of the sources such as Forgottem Realms texts or northern epics that i read do mention it;
-and second, we're talking a BIG rocks, those prepared for throwing (or maybe even rolling) down the hills at advancing enemies by ogres.
I can imagine Pratchett troll performing such a feat of gluttony with his diamond teeth but not an ordinary 1.5x size slightly altered muscleman which ogre imo is.

Point is, even a jest must be based upon the genuine lore and valid logic in order to not to be stupid.

http://advancedgaming-theory.blogspot.com/2009/09/chapter-iv-ogres.html

 

[Valkrionn]

I have just one thing to say:

Ogres in Forgotten Realms, or any other source, do not have anything to do with Ogres in Fall from Heaven. Doesn't matter if the name or basic idea is shared, they are not the same thing. This leaves the developers all the freedom they want... If they want ogres that eat rocks, they can have them.

'Genuine Lore' is lore in the mod, or it's related forum, not from outside sources. So if it's in the lore here, which it seems to be, than it is based on the lore.

 

[Rainbowsand]

About building improvements in ancient forests:
i think that 120+ turns with a single ljosalfar worker for a cottage with education researched is a bit too much. Do light elves grow their improvements by singing to the trees?

 

[Rainbowsand]

What i meant by 'genuine lore' is that stuff which was obtained by actually wandering other planes in the spirit form - whether by ancient shamen or by modern Wizards of the Coast.

I think the freedom of developers is quite limited by truth - they can distort the names, imagine possible scenarios that may took place but the more they stray far from it, the more wisdom turns into the crap.

I do believe that the ultimate goal of the developers is to create a game that will 'ring true' in all possible senses - and these ogres eating rocks have offended mine.

And dont tell me that FR 'have nothing to do with it' - where from these pics of the leaders came for example?

To respond to your edit to respond to my edit (and to not to expand this flaming beyond these two entries): Point Taken. Trolls do not exist. Erebus do not exist. Agares do not exist. (though we were talking ogres and FF051, remember?). And all of this is impossible (gaping guy from Matrix 2 heavy truck). Discord is irrelevant and scavenging parts of other sets and intentionnally diminishing and/or perverting them is okay.
"A nonexistant creature can be modified however a developer sees fit."
LOL So i guess i'll have to declare you nonexistent and try to find you and modify you as i see fit
With regards, Rainbowsand, Defender of the Ogrish Rights and other Rights Whatsoever that Arent Too Bothersome To Defend.

Latest addition: Oh, sorry. Shouldn't have addressed it all to someone who mixed steampunk into the Erebus. Different cultural values, obviously. End of insults.

 

[Valkrionn]

What i meant by 'genuine lore' is that stuff which was obtained by actually wandering other planes in the spirit form - whether by ancient shamen or by modern Wizards of the Coast.
I think the freedom of developers is quite limited by truth - they can distort the names, imagine possible scenarios that may took place but the more they stray far from it, the more wisdom turns into the crap.

.....Whut?

Trolls do not exist. There is no truth concerning them. They can be used in absolutely anyway by developers. Sure, people can complain if it doesn't fit the same use as other games/stories/etc, but that means absolutely nothing. A nonexistant creature can be modified however a developer sees fit.

Edit: To respond to your edit.... No game will ever, as you say, 'ring true' in ALL ways, to ALL people. In my opinion, a developer's goal should be to make a game that they enjoy. That goes double for people working on mods which are distributed free of charge.

As for the leader pics... Those are just images. You try to find good fantasy pictures that aren't used elsewhere. RifE has pics from GuildWars, concept art from various other games, etc. It's just art that is convenient, doesn't mean we used the actual character or any of the background for it. So yes, it has absolutely nothing to do with it.