"Fall Patch" announced

[swishizzle]

Totally disagree. I loved the espionage mechanic in Civ4, it was much more expansive and realistic too. You can hardly do anything in espionage in Civ5. The ONLY good part of it is you can pass details to other Civs if you want.

While I can't comment on Civ4, I will say that I enjoy sharing intrigue with other civs in Civ5. Every time I've done it, the leader has been loyal to me for the rest of the game. This is especially nice for me since I usually like to be peaceful, plus it works well with Sweden's UA.

I'm very excited about the coup changes in the patch; it might be the thing I'm most excited about. There's nothing more frustrating than being Sweden and throwing your great people at CS, only to be coup'd until it means nothing...

 

[dexters]

espionage mechanic on vanilla civ4 was broken and was basically 'human only' in the sense it was there many to give the human players the illusion of control.

units to move around etc.

espionage, as powerful as it can be when it's made to spec for the players who want it in, means it needs to be constrained.

I like the limited spy mechanic in GaK and moving it entirely into menus and making it affect city states more than directly impacting your cities/prod. Civ4 dealt with this in BtS with espionage points to put a constraint and also a decision point.

This patch sounds like it's doing a lot.
- AI unpuppeting cities is huge.
- fixing GA spawn bug, though I would have still preferred the more elegant fix of allowing us to move our GA over land. (more realistic) whatever that means

Piety still weak looking. Is a free GP as part of the finisher too OP? Considering it doubled Shrine bonus, it seems like a perfect fit.

 

[Aaron90495]

Today's the day. I feel it!

 

[bcaiko]

Part of the weakness of the Espionage system in CivV is the UI. I really wish most of spying could be done just from the map screen. Is it Budapest or Bucharest on my borders? I never remember. Heck, it could be Lisbon. But now I have to go back to the map to check, then go back to the spy screen and find it on that darn long list.

 

[Sonereal]

Your water supply has been poisoned.... gez how many times must my water supply be poisoned, why cant I build a cover over it, or better yet, hire some guards? It was one of the greatest turnoffs for Civ 4 for me, the espionage system... The espionage system in Civ 5 is far less annoying

The espionage system was horrific and basically just random events. You almost always could find out who poisoned your water supply (Sitting Bull). That seemed to be the only action the AI ever used besides counterespionage and tech stealing.

 

[Socratatus]

The espionage system was horrific and basically just random events. You almost always could find out who poisoned your water supply (Sitting Bull). That seemed to be the only action the AI ever used besides counterespionage and tech stealing.

Sounds like you guys played a different version to me. Never saw those annoyances at all. And even if the water supply thing was too much (I hardly remeber it ever happening), that could be fixed by just patching to reduce the frequency.

Hardly a reason to scratch it in favour of CIv5 that does almost nothing.

Thing is, espionage should allow both you and the AI to do almost anything like in real life. Where`s sabotage in Civ 5? That`s the most obvious missing spy element. Where`s the ability to slow down enemy Research advances? etc, etc, etc...

It was also nice to actually see a female in a somewhat realistic spy role in the game as well. If anyone can get by the security, a woman has a pretty good chance.

I hope the Devs expand the espionage abilities in Civ 5 eventually (and make it work for the AI too).

 

[SammyKhalifa]

The espionage system was horrific and basically just random events. You almost always could find out who poisoned your water supply (Sitting Bull). That seemed to be the only action the AI ever used besides counterespionage and tech stealing.

Indeed. People never seem to remember the crummy parts of CivIV.

 

[Socratatus]

Indeed. People never seem to remember the crummy parts of CivIV, that I think are crummy`

Fixed for you and I remember the bad parts of Civ4, but they aren`t the same as what you think are bad.

 

[Kwami]

It was also nice to actually see a female in a somewhat realistic spy role in the game as well. If anyone can get by the security, a woman has a pretty good chance.

Huh? What's this about?

Anyway, the espionage system in Civ IV was too much. Civ V's system is a good starting point for something better, but I do hope that it never gets as complex and silly as Civ IV's system was. The AI couldn't handle that complexity and the nonstop espionage events got old pretty quickly (just like constant coups do now).

 

[blackcatatonic]

It was also nice to actually see a female in a somewhat realistic spy role in the game as well. If anyone can get by the security, a woman has a pretty good chance.

lolwut?

I thought the whole point of 'espionage' was to be able to blend in with whatever organisation you were trying to infiltrate. As appealingly James Bond/Catwoman as the chick-in-a-catsuit unit graphic was, I didn't see that in the real world she'd be much good at infiltrating anything, unless it was a fetish club or something The same could be said of the sinister black-robed guy from the earlier eras!

I would welcome a bit more complexity being (re)introduced to the espionage system. Something to influence diplomatic relations - stirring up trouble between two rival Civs, for instance - would be very cool.

 

[Civsassin]

Sounds like you guys played a different version to me. Never saw those annoyances at all. And even if the water supply thing was too much (I hardly remeber it ever happening), that could be fixed by just patching to reduce the frequency.

Hardly a reason to scratch it in favour of CIv5 that does almost nothing.

Thing is, espionage should allow both you and the AI to do almost anything like in real life. Where`s sabotage in Civ 5? That`s the most obvious missing spy element. Where`s the ability to slow down enemy Research advances? etc, etc, etc...

It was also nice to actually see a female in a somewhat realistic spy role in the game as well. If anyone can get by the security, a woman has a pretty good chance.

I hope the Devs expand the espionage abilities in Civ 5 eventually (and make it work for the AI too).

The one thing I remember about espionage in CiIV, was trying to move a spy halfway across the map and the tedium that involved. At least in CiV, you don't have to build and move spies around the map. It could certainly use some improvements, like the ability to maybe purchase additional spies or some mechanic to increase your numbers, but overall, I think it is better than CiIV.

 

[ghost88]

Easily solved - just start a game and keep playing until it's finished. And check the forum before you open Steam every day to make sure the patch hasn't come out yet.

Or you could log out of Steam and play in off line mode till you finish your game. I know not if this will work for Multi-player but this is the way I play all my single player games. If you are logged out of Steam it will not up-date.

 

[apocalypse105]

Am I the only one who thinxs this is a bad change?

Also implemented a new factor: Attempting a coup in a location where there is no defending spy (the current ally does not have a spy there) is >=2x as likely to work as it would if there was a spy there.

Is it just me or instead of nerving coups they buffed it? why? its allready overpowered?


In my recent game as Arabia I had in every city state a spy however the AI was able to coup olmost every time whats the point of having a spy in a city state if it can't defend against this? Or is this just bad luck? any other persons who had the same experience?

 

[bcaiko]

Am I the only one who thinxs this is a bad change?

Also implemented a new factor: Attempting a coup in a location where there is no defending spy (the current ally does not have a spy there) is >=2x as likely to work as it would if there was a spy there.

Is it just me or instead of nerving coups they buffed it? why? its allready overpowered?

Hmmm...Could also be that they tweaked the chances of the coup's success rate down. Or another way of saying CSs with a defending spy post-patch will have half the success rate they now have.

As written, though, it does sound fairly unnerving. At least we know assigning a spy to an allied CS will help prevent coups post-patch. Now if only you had the option to direct your spy to hunt and kill opposing spies...

 

[apocalypse105]

Hmmm...Could also be that they tweaked the chances of the coup's success rate down. Or another way of saying CSs with a defending spy post-patch will have half the success rate they now have.

As written, though, it does sound fairly unnerving. At least we know assigning a spy to an allied CS will help prevent coups post-patch. Now if only you had the option to direct your spy to hunt and kill opposing spies...

No they don't I've had my city states beeing couped while I had spies in them..


By the way as a side note this nerve to austria :
Austrian UA balance changes:
Increase the cost of a City-State by at least the amount of gold you will get from scrapping their units.
Must be ally for 5 turns before you can undergo a diplomatic marriage with a City-State.
"Yoink!" achievement is now: "As Austria, acquire a City-State with 15 or more units through Diplomatic Marriage."


Its only a nerve to the human player because at higher difficulties the austrian AI will still become a runaway every time And that was one of the biggest problems once you had austria in you're game you might as well say well lets kill her or else she becomes a monster

Or Am i beeing stupid?

 

[nokmirt]

Fixed for you and I remember the bad parts of Civ4, but they aren`t the same as what you think are bad.

I have to agree. There certainly were plenty of people modding CiIV who really cared a lot about that game, including myself. If it was so horrid they would not have wasted the time.

 

[Arachnofiend]

No they don't I've had my city states beeing couped while I had spies in them..


By the way as a side note this nerve to austria :
Austrian UA balance changes:
Increase the cost of a City-State by at least the amount of gold you will get from scrapping their units.
Must be ally for 5 turns before you can undergo a diplomatic marriage with a City-State.
"Yoink!" achievement is now: "As Austria, acquire a City-State with 15 or more units through Diplomatic Marriage."


Its only a nerve to the human player because at higher difficulties the austrian AI will still become a runaway every time And that was one of the biggest problems once you had austria in you're game you might as well say well lets kill her or else she becomes a monster

Or Am i beeing stupid?

The "must be allied for 5 turns" is the big thing. It prevents the AI from sweeping up your city state and puppeting it in the same turn using that massive gold bonus it gets in exchange for lacking a mind for tactics.

 

[ense7en]

Today's the day. I feel it!

Better not be! I need to finish GOTM46.

 

[kamex]

My bets are on Friday... Of course I'd be happier with earlier.. say 5 mins time...

 

[crawf0rd]

I say today's chances are 50/50