Favorite Unrestricted Leader Combo

[Angst]

Boudica of Romans.

 

[SlipperyJim]

How about Hammurabi of the Romans? Aggressive + Praetorians for massive conquest, Organized to keep the conquest going....

 

[CHEESE!]

Elizabeth of Ethiopia with Stonehenge...

 

[Iranon]

Roosevelt of the Holy Roman Empire, maximising all per-city bonuses to have your economy go absolutely bonkers (Trade routes, religious wonders, possibly mercantilism and later corporations).
We'd build a city on every square of the planet if we could.

 

[Davor]

question: when you play with unrestricted leaders, doesn't that mean your opponents are also unrestricted combos? so couldn't you have combos that you are playing against that would be powerful and make it more challenging? I haven't tried this mode yet. I was considering a succession game with this feature.

When you pick your country and leader you can also pick the computers country and leader as well. What you leave random will be random.

 

[azzaman333]

Elizabeth of anyone. Seriously, she is one of the best leaders for any sort of game. As Rome, she's unstoppable.


On the AI side of things, seeing Monty with Praets is scary.

 

[Way_Traveler]

question: when you play with unrestricted leaders, doesn't that mean your opponents are also unrestricted combos? so couldn't you have combos that you are playing against that would be powerful and make it more challenging? I haven't tried this mode yet. I was considering a succession game with this feature.

Not really. It's not that combos are inherently strong, just that some stack really well together (Darius of HRE, Elizabeth of Rome). So, if you play one of those, you're effectively giving yourself the benefit of a really good combo, and leaving the strength of the AI combos to chance. The AIs that get a crappy leader with a mediocre civ are essentially condemned to death.

 

[Davor]

Not really. It's not that combos are inherently strong, just that some stack really well together (Darius of HRE, Elizabeth of Rome). So, if you play one of those, you're effectively giving yourself the benefit of a really good combo, and leaving the strength of the AI combos to chance. The AIs that get a crappy leader with a mediocre civ are essentially condemned to death.

You are only giveing the AI to chance if you leave it on random. You can pick and choose who you want to face.

 

[Ace of Gold]

i like to play churchill of france

 

[Kao'chai]

Playing unrestricted leaders, random personalities with everything that can possibly be randomised randomised certainly makes for a challenging game

Don't forget the choose religons.BTW, I don't like france that much .

 

[hecubus]

I thoroughly enjoyed Elizabeth of Portugal on a Terra map.

Her trait combination helped to power enough of a tech lead to really exploit the Carracks and lay claim to the new world. The Feitoria in conjunction with the Financial trait helped me maintain the empire overseas without having to liberate. I won a space race but was right up against the domination cap. In fact I when I went to war -- with Bismarck of Babylon and Hannibal of Rome at the request of delighted neighbor Zara Yaqob of America -- I gifted every city I captured to Zara so I'd stay under the cap.

 

[AfterShafter]

Darius of Perisa............hang on

You know, that isn't even all that far from the truth.. His trait combos are incredible, his UB basically gives him budget expansive on the side, effectively dealing with one of BTS's biggest and hardest to mitigate problems, and his UU is possibly the best rush unit in the game. He gets an A+ for traits, A+ for UU, A for UB. He's not nearly as one dimensional as most of the combos I'm seeing put forth - he's great at everything.

 

[azzaman333]

The Holkan, Impi, Dog Soldier and Quecha are all better than the Immortal for early rushes, and the War Chariot is its equal. Sure, the Immotal is good, but IMO you are over-rating it. And there are definately better UBs going around, including the Sacrificial Altar, Terrace, Forum, Ikhanda and Ball Court just to name a few.

 

[Iranon]

Huayna Capac of Inca is a similarly good combination. Two powerful Builder traits, the fastest rush ever and a very very useful Unique Building (conquered cities produce their own culture, regardless of religions).
Both are excellent for an early rush followed by a mostly peaceful game; Huayna gets going quickly but Darius has more staying power.

Most posted here are indeed more powerful than either BECAUSE they are unidimensional. While Darius and HC of their native empire are strongly all around, they don't have 'tech to x, build y, break the game' written all over them like a Boudica of Rome or Org/x of Holy Rome.

 

[AfterShafter]

The Holkan, Impi, Dog Soldier and Quecha are all better than the Immortal for early rushes, and the War Chariot is its equal. Sure, the Immotal is good, but IMO you are over-rating it. And there are definately better UBs going around, including the Sacrificial Altar, Terrace, Forum, Ikhanda and Ball Court just to name a few.

Better for super early rushes on maps small enough that the distance won't be prohibitive to slower moving units. The Immortal works equally well on tiny maps as it does on huge maps, able to do long distance rushes, reinforcing a moving rush force, easily. To boot, the unit is a defender that is basically impervious to archers and axemen - and defenders with two movement, that are dirt cheap to make, and have low tech requirements. They last longer than most of the units you named, are effective as defenders against two of the primary units of the era, and are suited to work well on a variety of map types that many of the units you mentioned aren't (IE - big roomy ones, as well as the ones with limited travel time). Yes, a quecha rush is a bit faster, but there will be a half a dozen scenarios where it would be ineffective that an Immortal rush would excel in... And the Immortal will be around a lot longer to boot. The Immortal is a much more well rounded unit than most of the ones you mentioned, and is still one of the best rushers in the game... As for war chariots - I love 'em, Ramses is my favorite guy, but... They can't defend worth beans. Immortals can. I'd give the edge to Immortals for how good they are.

As for UBs... Shaka needs the Ikhanda because his economy sucks - Darius doesn't. That's the best of the UBs you mentioned. Forum, sacrificial altar, terrace... All quite situational. As it happens, the apothecary is situational too - that situation being that you have health problems. Well, health is one of the hardest things to control in BTS, and it is one of Darius's only weak points - and go figure, his UB has that covered. His UB wouldn't be great for Mehmed, but it is *spectacular* for a guy who doesn't need an economic boost from his UB and is obviously suited to having a break-neck economy. That is Darius. His UBs isn't one of the best in the game in general, but it is one of the best for him.

Darius is a complete package that could arguably rival any unrestricted combo you can name, and I will argue the point... When I have time

 

[AfterShafter]

Most posted here are indeed more powerful than either BECAUSE they are unidimensional. While Darius and HC of their native empire are strongly all around, they don't have 'tech to x, build y, break the game' written all over them like a Boudica of Rome or Org/x of Holy Rome.

Darius does have a total one dimensional aspect to him though... His economy is the strongest in the game, bar none. He can expand more, faster, support larger armies, crank more tech, than anyone out there. Anyone. Giving him a Rathaus is hardly necessary - just playing regular Darius is already a notable improvement over even other financial civs. Playing among human players, if you leave Darius to expand and build, you will regret it later, because he is better at it than whoever you're playing - probably by a fair margin. He is to economic matters what Boadacia of the Romans is to early war...

And it just so happens, he's a very effective rusher to boot. The organized financial combo with a health bonus from his UB make him insane enough as a builder - being an amazing rusher is just icing. There's a reason why one of the things I repeatedly hear on this forum is that playing Darius is like going down a difficulty level... Because it really, really is.

Also, being one dimensional and just cramming that one strong point down peoples' throats is all good and fine... Boudica of the Romans without iron? On an island? Who cares. Darius beside you? Beware the rush. Darius on an Island? Beware his building power. He's good in just about any situation you can name. Take horses away, he's still an incredible builder. Cram him in a corner, and you'd best cross your fingers that he doesn't have horses. A breakneck economy, which is his specialty, allows for larger armies, more espionage, faster expansion, faster teching, whatever. The guy really does have it all.

 

[Iranon]

I think you're exaggerating his awesomeness a little. He recovers from the stress on the economy quickly, but the process itself is slower than with some others (Catherine, probably Joao).
I do agree that he's wonderfully adaptable though - got the space? Expand and get back on your feet quickly. Crowded in by multiple AIs? Go kill someone.

Also, his economy is the best without question only if others don't leverage their traits. Spiritual can save a fortune by running the most efficient civics at all times and not wasting turns in Anarchy. The value of Industrial is somewhat difficult to assess (decent if you can collect wonders without breaking a sweat. Awesome if it's the thing that enables you to spam wonders without neglecting other things. Useless if even with IND you don't build wonders beyond the bare essentials). PHI can also be a powerful and flexible economic trait, although it has the disadvantage of becoming worse in the late game rather than better.

I rate Darius among the top 5, no question, and I suppose most people will do: He can build with the best of them, rush with the best of them, and it almost requires conscious effort to throw away his advantages.
Gandhi is also on my top 5 list, but I wouldn't be surprised if others found him totally unappealing... I can't imagine that with Darius.

 

[Winth]

It's all my theory, but well, it's a fun thread for fantasies.

Gilgamesh of Native America - uberdefender. Creative gives valuable % of defense, and Protective gets its archers. Totem pole + protective + superfast 40% culture bonus = omnipotence. Until the catapults, anyway.

Huayna Capac of Rome - economy at home, praet outside.

Suleiman of Rome - interesting. You build Pyramids, get Representation, war and spam Forums. (lol, it sounds too funny ) Settle all the generals and use your specialists. Boom - specialist economy to the boot.

Washington of Persia - health is not an issue now, which pairs with big happiness. And UU is powerful.

Washington of Ottomans/Babylonians - similar, but you trade health for happy in hammam/garden.

Cyrus of Mongolia - Ger + barracks is just a step from uber-horses and phants. Get some settled GG's early and you are stomping hard on these puny ancient infantries.

Zara Yaqob of China - you can expand with Cho-Ko-Nus and maintain it with Organized. Creative helps to get Pavilions. Not groundbreakingly powerful, but nice.

Gandhi of Arabia - you get Madrassa, which effectively allows you to get 4 profitable specialists. It's just like good ol' Saladin.

 

[azzaman333]

Better for super early rushes on maps small enough that the distance won't be prohibitive to slower moving units.The Immortal works equally well on tiny maps as it does on huge maps, able to do long distance rushes, reinforcing a moving rush force, easily. To boot, the unit is a defender that is basically impervious to archers and axemen - and defenders with two movement, that are dirt cheap to make, and have low tech requirements. They last longer than most of the units you named, are effective as defenders against two of the primary units of the era, and are suited to work well on a variety of map types that many of the units you mentioned aren't (IE - big roomy ones, as well as the ones with limited travel time).

FWIW, the big roomier maps are more important for resourceless units because you are much less able to rely on various resources being around.

Yes, a quecha rush is a bit faster, but there will be a half a dozen scenarios where it would be ineffective that an Immortal rush would excel in... And the Immortal will be around a lot longer to boot. The Immortal is a much more well rounded unit than most of the ones you mentioned, and is still one of the best rushers in the game... As for war chariots - I love 'em, Ramses is my favorite guy, but... They can't defend worth beans. Immortals can. I'd give the edge to Immortals for how good they are.

A quecha rush can cripple every surrounding civ simply by building quechas from turn 1, resulting in multiple capitals and 3 times the space to expand into than your rivals. Dog soldiers and Holkans can both also steal a city much quicker 9/10 because you don't have to connect a resource to attack which means the next war can start earlier. The Impi is faster than the Immortal, is only weak to axes, and can get CRI CRII and CRIII.

As for UBs... Shaka needs the Ikhanda because his economy sucks - Darius doesn't.

However, the Ikhanda gives Shaka both a barracks and a mini-courthouse in one super-paced building.

That's the best of the UBs you mentioned. Forum, sacrificial altar, terrace... All quite situational. As it happens, the apothecary is situational too - that situation being that you have health problems. Well, health is one of the hardest things to control in BTS, and it is one of Darius's only weak points - and go figure, his UB has that covered. His UB wouldn't be great for Mehmed, but it is *spectacular* for a guy who doesn't need an economic boost from his UB and is obviously suited to having a break-neck economy. That is Darius. His UBs isn't one of the best in the game in general, but it is one of the best for him.

All those buildings effectively add an extra trait to the Civ, similar to the Apothecary.However they either add a better trait (Forum), improve a "every city" building (Terrace) or increase the power of a highly used and abused civic (Sacrificial Altar). Apothecary just doesn't do it for me, personally.

Darius is a complete package that could arguably rival any unrestricted combo you can name, and I will argue the point... When I have time

Huayna of Rome is a more complete package IMO.

 

[IAM]

Yes unrestricted leaders allows everyone to mix and match. I like any organized leader with the HRE. Ratheus is awesome.