February 2021 Update - Patch Notes Discussion

[Laurana Kanan]

Is anyone else finding they get a Eureka when they clear a Barb Camp - this just happened in my current game

Someone posted this happening in the Screenshots thread. I wondered if this could be a bug where Sumeria's Epic Quest CUA could be applying to every Civ. But, the below seems more likely.

Yeah, You can get eureka from clearing barb camps. I guess we can tinker with it here:

<Replace Name="BARBARIAN_CLANS_TECH_STEAL_INTERVAL_STANDARD" Value="20" />
        <Replace Name="BARBARIAN_CLANS_TECH_STEAL_VARIANCE_STANDARD" Value="10" />

It's within GlobalParameters

I saw that previously and I guess never put 2 + 2 together. It makes sense, though, I'm wondering what those parameters mean exactly. I'm assuming the first would be the turn cooldown between getting a Eureka. The second...

 

[TreVor_ish]

The second could be a chance of getting eureka upon clearing barb camp.

 

[Laurana Kanan]

I thought about that, except why would they use "VARIANCE" instead of "CHANCE" nomenclature in this instance. Pretty much every event parameter that has a chance of occurring uses the latter.

 

[TreVor_ish]

Yeah, I know. I'm just making cheap shot at this. Gonna test further...
EDIT:
Ok, I'm starting to think, changing numbers in those two parameters changes nothing.

 

[Pietato]

I think it makes them more coherent and synergistic and for me that is what I value most. It also kills the "build army in Oligarchy, fight in Autocracy" meme which was always the right way to play war.

You have it backwards. You would build in Autocracy, fight in Oligarchy.

 

[Zyxpsilon]

I have tried to "reveal-all" via console exactly at turn 50 and that was quite interesting.

Camps banners are highly variable in their CS goals (some even outright started @30 on first turn -- duh) which certainly get controlled by food growth and many other conditions like interactive patterns with AI exploration cycles or implied persistent Combat. Loyalty penalties should also compound in their specific case.

I feel one solution for such very rapid swaps could be to raise the basic turns limit far above the default 50 -- say, 100 or even 200 & also... enforce a direct range blocking from any regular CS and every major Civ cities. If they are within 5/10/25 tiles (relative to a new negative Loyalty range effect as well) for example from anyone that qualifies as a much higher threat to their progress as defined by the default ruleset.

One trick i discovered (with a coastal camp) is that i could stop their CS bar permanently through "Food Bombing" proximity --but-- putting a new city just ONE tile away.. and immediately buy every nearest tiles.

That's happening as i was getting ready to take the 5th ransom step (builder captured by Bireme) for the --"Finder's Fee"-- achievement on turn #118, btw. The Camp has been stuck at Zero for 15+ turns.

Another way to limit the almost inevitable BC--to--CS high flood would be to let them flip into a FreeCity without walls, i guess.

 

[aieeegrunt]

Someone posted this happening in the Screenshots thread. I wondered if this could be a bug where Sumeria's Epic Quest CUA could be applying to every Civ. But, the below seems more likely.

I saw that previously and I guess never put 2 + 2 together. It makes sense, though, I'm wondering what those parameters mean exactly. I'm assuming the first would be the turn cooldown between getting a Eureka. The second...

I got a Eureka for dispersing a camp as Germany

 

[Disgustipated]

Anyone keep having the game hang up between turns? Happened to me twice now. No mods running, just have barbarian mode and corporations mode.

Sadly, if this keeps happening, I will have to not run barbarian mode (assuming that's the cause). Good thing I have auto save on every turn.

edit: and loading the auto save causes the game to lock up, requiring task manager to close it.

edit: and now a crash to desktop. This game is so unstable now.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

One trick i discovered (with a coastal camp) is that i could stop their CS bar permanently through "Food Bombing" proximity --but-- putting a new city just ONE tile away.. and immediately buy every nearest tiles..

You don't need to do that, a camp can't become a CS if there is a city within three tiles, so by just settling you blocked their progress. And by nature there's it's super expensive to Food bomb because you'd have to have a city capture a single tile to Food Bomb if the city is 4 tiles away from the camp itself.

 

[Abaxial]

Anyone keep having the game hang up between turns? Happened to me twice now. No mods running, just have barbarian mode and corporations mode.

Sadly, if this keeps happening, I will have to not run barbarian mode (assuming that's the cause). Good thing I have auto save on every turn.

edit: and loading the auto save causes the game to lock up, requiring task manager to close it.

edit: and now a crash to desktop. This game is so unstable now.

Same problem - happened around 1575 several times and then stabilised.

 

[Dedrytus]

I noticed funny thing. From some reason in my current game barbs camps stoped to spawn. In early game some of them changed into city states, some were cleared and now no barbs at all.

 

[Virdrago]

I noticed funny thing. From some reason in my current game barbs camps stoped to spawn. In early game some of them changed into city states, some were cleared and now no barbs at all.

I found the same. After CS conversion, barbs stop spawning, so no new barbs from the mid-late classical era. I tried a couple games with no mods, so it's not that.

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

I noticed funny thing. From some reason in my current game barbs camps stoped to spawn. In early game some of them changed into city states, some were cleared and now no barbs at all.

I found the same. After CS conversion, barbs stop spawning, so no new barbs from the mid-late classical era. I tried a couple games with no mods, so it's not that.

I am having the same experience, but I was hoping it was due to a mod. Are you using any mods?

 

[bengalryan9]

Anyone keep having the game hang up between turns? Happened to me twice now. No mods running, just have barbarian mode and corporations mode.

Sadly, if this keeps happening, I will have to not run barbarian mode (assuming that's the cause). Good thing I have auto save on every turn.

edit: and loading the auto save causes the game to lock up, requiring task manager to close it.

edit: and now a crash to desktop. This game is so unstable now.

I haven't had any hang-ups (yet), but I have noticed that the AI turns seem to take longer now. Might be related?

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Just a few more notes:

Managed to play past 120th turn, now have three new City States on the map from Clans. Two of them, however, are in coastal Tundra or Ice positions without any Food bonuses, so it will be interesting to see how, or if, they grow.

I think the Eureka from clearing Camps makes for interesting decision possibilities: clear the camp immediately and get a possible promotion for your clearing unit and a Eureka, or take the 50 Gold and get thrown out of the camp by a new Barb unit instantly (well, before next turn). If you have enough force in the vicinity, of course, you can then 'farm' the Camp for more gold or a later Eureka/promotion.

Biremes seem to be the 'go to' UU for coastal Camps: I've seen a barbarian Bireme in three games in the Ancient or Classical Eras so far, and that's three for three paying with Barbarian Clans.

This is probably the result of a Mod-Game disconnect, but after a Barb Clan turned into the city state of Kabul I had two Kabuls on the map. The first one was a city of the Mod Civ Timurids which had gone Free City. I've noticed this before, that the Mod Civs and Base Game do not always interact well when it comes to City names . . .

Everyone has probably noticed this already, but if you get a Horseman unit from a Clan early in the game, it's a Barbarian Horsemen at much lower Combat Factor than a 'regular' Horseman. Still handy for running down Barbarian Scouts or exploring though - and cheaper than buying a new Scout in one of your own cities.

 

[8housesofelixir]

Everyone has probably noticed this already, but if you get a Horseman unit from a Clan early in the game, it's a Barbarian Horsemen at much lower Combat Factor than a 'regular' Horseman. Still handy for running down Barbarian Scouts or exploring though - and cheaper than buying a new Scout in one of your own cities.

Barb camp can sell Normal Horseman as well, and they have different prices than Barb Horseman, so you can check the price tag for reference.

If the UI is saying the unit in sell is "Horseman" and the price tag is about 180-190 gold, then it will be a Normal Horseman. The cheaper one is always Barb Horseman for their combat strength is lower.

——————————

In addition, buying a high combat strength unit from a Barb Camp will not increase the defense value of your walled cities. Not sure if it is an oversight or working as intended.

 

[bengalryan9]

Barb camp can sell Normal Horseman as well, and they have different prices than Barb Horseman, so you can check the price tag for reference.

If the UI is saying the unit in sell is "Horseman" and the price tag is about 180-190 gold, then it will be a Normal Horseman. The cheaper one is always Barb Horseman for their combat strength is lower.

Definitely seems confusing, though... would probably be a good idea to rename the barbarian horseman unit to something else.

 

[AntSou]

I thought about that, except why would they use "VARIANCE" instead of "CHANCE" nomenclature in this instance. Pretty much every event parameter that has a chance of occurring uses the latter.

If you didn't want a specific number of turns, but a range, what code would you use?

Maybe the variance sets a random number of turns between 10 and 30, rather than a constant 20?

 

[TreVor_ish]

If you didn't want a specific number of turns, but a range, what code would you use?

Maybe the variance sets a random number of turns between 10 and 30, rather than a constant 20?

Also, I thought it could mean eureka farther away from Techs already discovered. For now, I only had a situation of eureka that is only one tech further.

 

[Disgustipated]

I haven't had any hang-ups (yet), but I have noticed that the AI turns seem to take longer now. Might be related?

Yeah turn times are much longer. I used to have lightning fast turn times after building my new rig last year.

I'm not sure if I'll finish my game. It's crashing too much. I don't know what the problem is. I'm not running any mods. It might be related the bug I saw last January update with the ridiculous number of city states despite me limiting them to only 13. I know not that many barb camps became city states, because these I found at the beginning of the game. I'm going to restart a new game and see if it's better.