Federal Judge rules Utah's ban on gay marrage illegal. Internet about to explode

[Dachs]

To support living in the 21st century is unthinkable to a supporter of the Traditions of the Founding Fathers. 18th Century? Sure. 19th century? It'll do. 20th Century? Nope. 21st Century is right out.

 

[Neverwonagame3]

If you asked any Founding Father, supporting the legalisation of gay sex, let alone gay marriage, would be unacceptable to the same extent that legalising genocide would be to us. It's like incest is to many nowadays- just instinctively disgusting. They would consider themselves morally against homosexual behaviour on principle. It follows that if you claim to be acting "in the spirit of the Founding Fathers", you cannot support gay marriage without hypocrisy.

The Founding Father's concept of common sense and ours are close enough we can extrapolate. For transport, for example, how on earth can a flying machine NOT be transport? Just as a teleportation network would clearly be transport, and we know that even though we don't have them.

You can talk about the principles on which the nation was founded, one of which was very clearly that blacks and whites are not equal (yes this was amended, but not by constitutional means). But that isn't the same as the principles of the Founding Fathers, nor the tradition of the Founding Fathers.

If you said the values written into the Consitution, which means something quite different, on the other hand, I would agree with your interpretation mostly. My point on race still applies, and forcing churches to perform marriages would clearly violate it.

 

[Tee Kay]

IThey would consider themselves morally against homosexual behaviour on principle.

Jefferson claimed to be morally against rase-mixing in principle and guess what happened.

 

[El_Machinae]

I think that's his point, that the FFs aren't really a good guide.

 

[bhsup]

Forget the founding fathers. I get rather tired of people bringing them up in arguments. Obey the Constitution that they wrote, though, cuz you know silly thing about supreme law of the land and rule of law being supreme and all that. If we don't like what the Constitution says we amendment it. Or, you know, appoint supreme court justices that will blow it off and say unconstitutional things are constitutional. Whichever way floats your boat.

 

[El_Machinae]

I sometimes get dissonance thinking that we 'have' to obey a buncha dead guys. I mean, it's leads to Peace, Order, and Good Governance, but that's what the Canadian Charter is founded on.

 

[bhsup]

But you're not obeying THEM. You're obeying the rules of law that were set down by them and which have been modified over time to fit the needs of the country. It's a different thing entirely.

(Also, you should really consider requesting annexation. Our dead guys are WAY cooler than yours. )

 

[El_Machinae]

But you're not obeying THEM. You're obeying the rules of law that were set down by them and which have been modified over time to fit the needs of the country. It's a different thing entirely.

Kinda. Remember, if their amendment formula had been different, we'd be living under different laws. With the US, for example, partisanship has gotten so bad that you guys won't see amendments for some time. So, yeah, we have the ability to 'modify' the laws decided by the dead guys, and I think it's just lucky that their amendment formula wasn't stupid. IF it had been stupid, it might not even have been possible to change it.

 

[Cutlass]

BTW, nobody disputes that the idea of gay marriage is far, far from what the Founding Fathers would consider acceptable right? In many ways America would seem monstrous to them.

One of those ways, of course, is our treatment of non-whites. But another is divorce. Yet another is gay marriage.

Who gives a flying frak what some men 200 years dead would have thought on the issue? Most of them were slavers.

 

[GenMarshall]

So now someone pulled up the Founding Father's card? I suppose I won't be supprised if someone goes into detail about gay penguins .

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Screw the Founding Fathers and the Constition they rode in on.

 

[JohannaK]

Screw them. Let's go back to Hammurabi. The guy's been dead longer, he definitely knew better.

 

[timtofly]

Perhaps we should join Noah and global warming and how humans caused their own destruction.